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ThirdDrawerDown

Another Maggie Tympani-1D rebuild thread

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The thing about cults is that you need gullible people as followers.  Otherwise the gurus begin to look a little lonely, and shouting, "Hey, look over here" and waving the arms about with gusto always comes across better if you have a crowd around you, or at least a couple of disciples. This is the position I have found myself in, since the day that I was told some Tympani 1D's were available for purchase at Trevor Lees audio in Melbourne.  This thread covers the refurbishment of these allegedly fine panel speakers. In it I will catalogue certain aspects of the work; and it is also quite possible that the narrative may go off on tangents at times, because one thinks about all sorts of things when one has time on one's hands. As is usual with Magneplanars, the task of refurbishing them is a straightforward matter for the enthusiastic amateur, and I've chosen this moment to open this thread to report that, after some trivial administrative and logistical arrangements, a start has now been made on this refurb.  I should mention I bought these speakers in June 2016. Today, 24 February 2018, all the wires were stripped and the mylar cleaned, so we have definitely made progress in audiophile terms, because up until today one could get sound out of most of these panels, but after today, no chance whatsoever.

 

R-7827294-1449704637-3470.jpeg.jpg

 

   

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3 minutes ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

The thing about cults is that you need gullible people as followers.  Otherwise the gurus begin to look a little lonely, and shouting, "Hey, look over here" and waving the arms about with gusto always comes across better if you have a crowd around you, or at least a couple of disciples. This is the position I have found myself in, since the day that I was told some Tympani 1D's were available for purchase at Trevor Lees audio in Melbourne.  This thread covers the refurbishment of these allegedly fine panel speakers. In it I will catalogue certain aspects of the work; and it is also quite possible that the narrative may go off on tangents at times, because one thinks about all sorts of things when one has time on one's hands. As is usual with Magneplanars, the task of refurbishing them is a straightforward matter for the enthusiastic amateur, and I've chosen this moment to open this thread to report that, after some trivial administrative and logistical arrangements, a start has now been made on this refurb.  I should mention I bought these speakers in June 2016. Today, 24 February 2018, all the wires were stripped and the mylar cleaned, so we have definitely made progress in audiophile terms, because up until today one could get sound out of most of these panels, but after today, no chance whatsoever.  

 

Sensational news, Murray!!  :thumb:  Acetone is a wonderful solution, isn't it!  :)  So your mylar is looking fresh and clean?  No cuts/holes?

 

But this is the 4 bass panels - which you can see.  What about the double-magnet tweeter panels, where the mylar (and the wires) is hidden from view?

 

Andy

 

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These Maggies were my first, and to date only, purchase from Trevor Lees Audio, so the place was new to me.  I had phoned ahead and placed a Hold on the speakers. My wife and I arrived about 11am on a rainy Saturday morning in June. I exaggerate only slightly when I say that the store is located at the intersection of five major arterial roads, in truth it is set back several metres from the most arterial of the traffic flow. I observed a vacant carpark outside the store: "15 microseconds only".  "That'll do me," I said as we drive past it at speed in the opposite direction. "You are never to do a U-turn like that again with me in the car," my wife said. Further conversation was lost from view as she was obliged to sit in the back seat, 6 panels having taken up the entire left side of the car.  The packing was tight. I had to have the windows down otherwise the pressure on the glass would have been too great.  Did I mention it was raining?

 

R-1080899-1320258356.jpeg.jpg

 

Could write a book about it.

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O Andyr, if only it were that simple. Acetone did not work (alas).

 

You need to recall that I had been guided to buy these on faith, a journey where I was an innocent, beguiled by the wonders of the audio world. (Since then I have wondered if audio enthusiasts are led astray more by looks or by sound).  Suffice to say I had been bedazzled.  I recall the words: "Five of the six panels work" and "They look in very good condition to me." 

 

R-5254774-1388844552-3732.jpeg.jpg

 

(It was also an error of judgement that it was not until we got home that I casually mentioned to my wife that the panels needed refurbishment before they could be used.  It will not remove any sense of suspense about later events if I mention here that I was later told that henceforward, in our household, I should only ever buy functioning speakers). 

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Nude Maggies are what you get when you take their socks off.  I am not the first to have felt some shock at seeing the object of one's desire in the flesh for the first time. These had araldite or something similar:

 

IMG_2486.JPGIMG_2487.JPG

 

 

 

IMG_2488.JPG

 

 

IMG_2485.JPG

 

R-770499-1179420318.jpeg.jpg

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We draw a veil over the year or so that passes, with its questions, explorations, advice, dilemmas, procrastinations, and invoices. Suffice to say that all attempts at fixing the problems resulted in a hole in the bank balance, no change to the speakers, airpoints, and a sizeable quote for shipping the panels to Magneplanar in the USA for refurbishment.

 

Was this truly the time for them to make the return pilgrimage from whence they came (I asked)*.

 

I needed a magical mystery cure.

 

R-3500645-1426807232-5580.jpeg.jpg

 

*Actually I asked Bill's team at Gosford.  That's where the airpoints come in. They did a lot of work, including some time and effort that I suspect was not invoiced to me, and said that really, it was Minnesota or bust.

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If you read to the end of the hundred-odd pages of @djb's Maggies thread, you will have picked up that it was his panels that turned my head and led me down this path. That phrase 'change of direction' can conceal so many things...  But in promising to mentor me and act as my guru on this aural journey, he did provide me with some wise advice. (Also some tips about what hats not to wear, but that's another story).

 

R-516882-1415311289-6178.jpeg.jpg

 

There are many paths to the cult of Maggie, but what they don't tell you is that there are also many thresholds. Faced with several thousand dollars to send the panels to the USA and back, a sunk cost, and no wish to sell them onwards locally as it would just be duping someone, I had no choice but a last roll of the dice. So when David said, "Have you tried @gonefishing999?" I said, "why not".  I did not know that this would take me deep into the innermost secrets of Those Who Know the Way of Maggies.

 

Peter arrived today with his cactus juice.

 

Serving suggestion:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRy_RhV-MJ1O93ghEWLLyW

Tip: Do not serve it like this. It will melt the mylar.

 

In its unignited form, Peter's Cactus Juice releases the wires and removes the adhesion between the glue blobs and the mylar, so it can be picked off with a keratine-based accessory or appendage:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcjKualTkWOjolJUU5Rr1

 

Animal-Noses8.jpg

 

(Photos of keratine-based appendages)

 

Really, today's work is Peter's story and for him to tell.  Here's a sneak view of one of the worst sections, with the glue blob ready to be peeled off:

 

5a91614f5c7f9_Feb2017DSCF1096.thumb.jpg.7ce142aca510bac6e7d9b47595e25066.jpg

 

I never expected this.  My heartfelt thanks to Peter.  This project now has a realistic chance of getting somewhere!

Edited by ThirdDrawerDown

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A new chapter

That photo is of a much younger mage than me!

I fear the journey has aged me somewhat.

but I digress 

may I suggest some ground rules 

1 no digression from the topic of the rebuild

2 no cruel jibes at mentors 

3 Site visits by prior arrangement only 

3.1 visitors to bring wine and victuals 

5

6

8

9 Do NOTdivulgue secret Flat Panel Society business on a public forum .

10

11 there shall be no more than 10 rules

12 @Addicted to music as a recidivist on similar threads has a prequel warning.

12.1 see Maggie thread mark 1 see "Why oh why buy Linn?" thread as evidence.

 

 

Edited by djb

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Suggestions for rules 4 through 10 can be submitted below to the Flat Panel Society sub rules committee on rules chair at @Point source

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2 hours ago, djb said:

 

11 there shall be no more than 10 rules

12 @Addicted to music as a recidivist on similar threads has a prequel warning.

12.1 see Maggie thread mark 1 see "Why oh why buy Linn?" thread as evidence.

 

 

:na:

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Looks like a great project with more than a few challenges.

 

I would urge you to consider purchasing new Mylar (I know this isn’t a fashionable suggestion).

 

I am intrigued to know what the Cactus juice is comprised of.

 

As an honorary member of the Flat Earth Society (for my research work on Maggie Mylar), I object to Rule 2.

 

 

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11 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

 

Peter arrived today with his cactus juice.

 

In its unignited form, Peter's Cactus Juice releases the wires and removes the adhesion between the glue blobs and the mylar, so it can be picked off with a keratine-based accessory or appendage:

 

Really, today's work is Peter's story and for him to tell.  Here's a sneak view of one of the worst sections, with the glue blob ready to be peeled off:

 

5a91614f5c7f9_Feb2017DSCF1096.thumb.jpg.7ce142aca510bac6e7d9b47595e25066.jpg

 

I never expected this.  My heartfelt thanks to Peter.  This project now has a realistic chance of getting somewhere!

 

So, Peter - what is this magic stuff that will dissolve Araldite?  :thumb:  I had heard that it was basically un-dissolvable!

 

Andy

 

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Andy, as a member you know Rule 9 (the unwritten one) is about not divulging secret Flat Panel Society business on a public forum! At least that's what I was told yesterday immediately after the complicated handshake. 

 

13 hours ago, andyr said:

So your mylar is looking fresh and clean?  No cuts/holes?

A few little ones.  I will take photos this afternoon.

 

44 minutes ago, Telecine said:

consider purchasing new Mylar

Part of the journey is crossing the threshold to being fully admitted to the asylum.  I have done this, apparently like so many others I pass as normal apart from one slight defect in my make-up and so they made me welcome there.  At the Planar Speaker Asylum the Mylar is reported as being

 

12 µm Mylar type C

 

For those who came in late, Mylar being DuPont's proprietary form of polyester film. Think 'the stuff that wraps capacitors'. 

 

Is it available in Australia?  I think a competitor makes a similar product just up the road from here.

 

Edited by ThirdDrawerDown

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1 hour ago, Telecine said:

Looks like a great project with more than a few challenges.

 

I would urge you to consider purchasing new Mylar (I know this isn’t a fashionable suggestion).

 

I am intrigued to know what the Cactus juice is comprised of.

 

As an honorary member of the Flat Earth Society (for my research work on Maggie Mylar), I object to Rule 2.

 

 

I have another rule,

 

if it looks this bad,  just buy a new one!   :P

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54 minutes ago, andyr said:

o, Peter - what is this magic stuff that will dissolve Araldite?  :thumb:  I had heard that it was basically un-dissolvable!

When Murray sent pics to me I knew it's was not Araldite but looks like polyurethane glue because of the colour

and bubbles. Araldite would remain clear and no bubbles , which suggests that the Magnepan repairer didn't have any 

 idea what the glue was.

By the way it was polyurethane.

 

Peter

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15 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

I have another rule,

 

if it looks this bad,  just buy a new one!   :P

 

Alas, Peter, one cannot buy a new set of Tympani-1Ds - they stopped making them about 30 years ago.  :(

 

If only Magnepan had used the glue then that they do now (and on your 1.7s) ... Murray wouldn't have had this problem.  :(

 

Andy

 

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1 minute ago, andyr said:

Murray wouldn't have had this problem. 

I think Murray anticipated the problem, which has now led to this very interesting thread.:)

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19 minutes ago, gonefishing999 said:

When Murray sent pics to me I knew it's was not Araldite but looks like polyurethane glue because of the colour

and bubbles. Araldite would remain clear and no bubbles , which suggests that the Magnepan repairer didn't have any 

 idea what the glue was.

By the way it was polyurethane.

 

Peter

Aah, OK.  :thumb:  So does your 'cactus juice' dissolve Araldite?

 

The reason I ask is that I understand what we know as 'Araldite' ... is called 'DAP' in the US.  In the late 90s there were several posts on the Planar Asylum by people recommending to use DAP, if you had to stick down short lengths of a few wires - and didn't want to strip off the whole mass of wires.  So I did this.  It's worked well - but I think at some stage, I will have to strip all the wires off and get a complete re-lay done, as the loop ends are coming unstuck.  So I need to know what will dissolve/loosen Araldite.  :)  Because I understand acetone doesn't loosen it.  :(

 

12 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

I never expected this.  My heartfelt thanks to Peter.  This project now has a realistic chance of getting somewhere!

 

 

So, Murray, with 4 nice clean as-new mylar panels ... are you going to get the kit from Bill and re-lay the wires yourself ... or send them up to Bill to do?

 

Whichever way you work it, I suggest get in touch with @ghost4man who had his bass panels re-laid with aluminium foil (as used for all the current Maggies) instead of round-wire.  This made a substantial improvement, I understand.

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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@ThirdDrawerDown...love the humour in this thread...

Am also a member of the Flat Panel Society but with Ambience Ribbons...

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1 hour ago, Telecine said:

Looks like a great project with more than a few challenges.

 

I would urge you to consider purchasing new Mylar (I know this isn’t a fashionable suggestion).

 

I am intrigued to know what the Cactus juice is comprised of.

 

As an honorary member of the Flat Earth Society (for my research work on Maggie Mylar), I object to Rule 2.

 

 

Hi mate,

That is the common sense approach HOWEVER, Magnepan absolutely, positively do NOT sell Mylar to the public.

As I understand it they never have.

Replacing the Mylar is not as easy as you think as Magnepan have a tensioning jig set up to ensure that the

mylar is stretched according to model.

I would absolutely endorse replacing the original wire with QR aluminium foil for the 2 bass panels.

Light and day difference to my mind.

 

I would also suggest to Murray to build a frame which can accommodate the true ribbon at a later stage.

Quite frankly the Tympani 1Ds to this day leave the 20 series maggies behind.

The brand new 30.7's is an endorsement of just how good the Tympani range were and remain to this day.

 

This should be an interesting rebuild which will be closely monitored by the guys on the Audio Asylum maggie forum.

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22 minutes ago, andyr said:

Aah, OK.  :thumb:  So does your 'cactus juice' dissolve Araldite?

 

NO once set not chemicals will soften it the best way is hot air gun 70 c.

Araldite will not stick to mylar so it should peel off easily by just pulling up wire .

Mylar don't like 2 things heat and acid.

 

Peter

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