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Amp, DAC, CD choices.


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Hello, I’m at a crossroads, and this section of the forums seems to be the best place to cover the scope. There are other sections that zero in on the specifics, but I’m after an overview and opinions from others. 

 

I have been running:

Yamaha CD-S700 player; - and a

Mac Mini via USB; into a

Musical Fidelity VDAC II; into a

Yamaha A-S700 amp; and out through

Monitor Audio RS 6 speakers

for years and years. I also have a

Pro Ject 1Xpression III; via a

Pro Ject phono box S;

into one of the line ins on the Yamaha.

 

It’s been great and has brought me a great deal of enjoyment the entire time. The music I listen to is mostly acoustic classical. 

 

I recently jumped on an ex demo pair of

Monitor Audio Silver 8 for almost half price. 

 

So so now the MA RS 6 are sitting spare. They are not worth selling. The dollars would not be worth the use I would forego. So they’re staying. 

 

Now I am thinking of upgrading the amp and DAC to go with the Silver 8’s. The other gear would go with the old MA speakers as it was for years. 

 

Heres where I am asking for opinions. I am interested in DSD for digital files. I have thought about either a PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC for $1429 at Carlton, and an entry level Cambridge or NAD (or similar level) CD player to use as a transport into the DAC. Then go into either an Audiolab 8300 integrated amp OR a Rega Elex R. 

 

OR 

 

Audiolab CD player with inbuilt DSD DAC into either the matching Audiolab 8300 amp or the Rega Elex. 

 

Both scenarios come in about $4000.

 

I’ve read extensively on both setups, and don’t have time to endlessly audition an array of this or that. If a design is well done and thought out, I can be happy with it. I’m not overly precious on nuances of sound meeting my precious tastes as long as the quality is good. I dont have the money to afford that luxury!

 

So, any thoughts on this pairing up of my narrowed down selections before I go and listen?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

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I listen to a lot of acoustic classical too. In my experience you're far better off going for an integrated CD/SACD player, rather than a transport-DAC.

 

Even with a disk-spinner-to-DAC setup, it's very difficult to match the benefits of an integrated CD/SACD player as any increase in jitter messes with the audio reproduction of acoustic instruments. The easiest way to hear this is with classical piano; the leading edge of individual notes become glassy and brittle, with unnaturally fast attack. 

 

Look for a used Accuphase or Marantz. These are the best for acoustic classical in my experience. I say that after trying many disc spinner-DAC setups (as well as a couple of purpose-built audio PCs), including several highly touted DACs.

 

 

 

Edited by was_a
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Would you consider ripping your CDs and using your Mac Mini as the music server?  One less piece of equipment with its associated distortion & cost? But there are others who prefer the disc spinner, as per previous post.

 

Had the highly rated Audiolab 8200CDQ, was my first DAC and also gave me the ability to continue using CDs. Found that the ripped music from a PC via usb was consistently better than CDs even though it used the same DAC stage. 

 

Back to your original choices, I suspect the PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC is better than the Audiolab. No experience with integrated amps (am using powered speakers).

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1 hour ago, JSBach said:

Thank you for your post. 

So an SACD/ CD player going into both the DAC for Redbook via the coaxial, and the analogue out, straight to the line in on the amp for the SACD’s?

I mean buy a CD/SACD player with digital in, so that you have both options - playing CDs/SACDs and audio files. (And buy more CDs and SACDs!).

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I won't comment on the DAC side of things, not really my area, but I will say that they amps you mention sound pretty different to each other.  Yamahas have plenty of punch and snap with a crisp feel.  Audiolab sound more laid back and calm, haven't heard the new Cambridges so can't comment on those.  On the older Azur range the mid level models were a bit like a more shouty Yamaha while the top of the range was a warmer, much more capable amp.

The Rega elex has a great clean and sweet mid range, excellent for classical and probably the pick of the amps mentioned for most classical music.

Just my 2c worth, hope it helps with your choice.

 

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

Would you consider ripping your CDs and using your Mac Mini as the music server?  One less piece of equipment with its associated distortion & cost? But there are others who prefer the disc spinner, as per previous post.

 

Had the highly rated Audiolab 8200CDQ, was my first DAC and also gave me the ability to continue using CDs. Found that the ripped music from a PC via usb was consistently better than CDs even though it used the same DAC stage. 

 

Back to your original choices, I suspect the PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC is better than the Audiolab. No experience with integrated amps (am using powered speakers).

I have my cds on the Mac mini but my dear wife wants to use the CD player and can’t be bothered with using the phone to run the iTunes remote. 

 

The CD is only a necessary addition but not my preference. I only own a small number of SACD’s, so they aren’t really a big factor. If I had extra money to throw around it would be nice though. The CD player won’t be the main means of playback for me, and my wife doesn’t care as long as the music comes out when you push as few buttons as possible?. So the CD can take a back seat and I’ll get by with the minimum needed. 

 

My my main thing is getting a good DSD DAC into a good amp that will do justice to the MA Silver 8 speakers. 

 

So im thinking the PS audio would be a better choice too but that’s from what I’ve read. I want to read as many ch as I can so I can make a narrow list of stuff I actually want to audition. 

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18 minutes ago, Cafad said:

I won't comment on the DAC side of things, not really my area, but I will say that they amps you mention sound pretty different to each other.  Yamahas have plenty of punch and snap with a crisp feel.  Audiolab sound more laid back and calm, haven't heard the new Cambridges so can't comment on those.  On the older Azur range the mid level models were a bit like a more shouty Yamaha while the top of the range was a warmer, much more capable amp.

The Rega elex has a great clean and sweet mid range, excellent for classical and probably the pick of the amps mentioned for most classical music.

Just my 2c worth, hope it helps with your choice.

 

From what I’ve read, the Rega amp would be better suited to the PS Audio DAC source and the MA speakers too. I’m testing out my thoughts here with you fine people to see if what I’ve learned - from what I’ve read - lines up with the much wider wxperience you all have acquired. 

 

Thanks again!

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2 hours ago, JSBach said:

I have my cds on the Mac mini but my dear wife wants to use the CD player and can’t be bothered with using the phone to run the iTunes remote.

I understand; took a long time to get mine to switch to the Sonos and access via phone (and she does not want to use my main system!).  Suggest getting a cheap no name CD player.

2 hours ago, JSBach said:

My my main thing is getting a good DSD DAC into a good amp that will do justice to the MA Silver 8 speakers. 

 

So im thinking the PS audio would be a better choice too but that’s from what I’ve read. I want to read as many ch as I can so I can make a narrow list of stuff I actually want to audition. 

The PS Audio DSD DAC should be a good choice.  I know you mentioned wanting to limit your looking, but should you change your mind, have a look at GIESELER Groß DAC which transformed my DSD listening at the cost of a considerably lighter wallet. :lol:  There is currently a demo unit doing the rounds in Melbourne.

Edited by Snoopy8
Changed link to all reviews
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2 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Another option is to get a second hand Oppo 103 for CD duties and use it to rip SACDs.

By rip SACD’s, do you mean get the bits of data onto the mini? I know you dont mean that. Do you also mean by rip, to play the SACDs through the line out directly, and leave the redbook conversion work to the outboard DAC via coax?

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Just now, JSBach said:

How does that work? Isn’t the dsd layer on an SACD locked up?

SACDs are copy protected and only a few players can successfully copy the dsd layer. Up until 2 years ago, only a Sony PlayStation with a specific firmware version could do that. The Oppo 103/105 plus something else with same chip can now also rip.

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4 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

I understand; took a long time to get mine to switch to the Sonos and access via phone (and she does not want to use my main system!).  Suggest getting a cheap no name CD player.

The PS Audio DSD DAC should be a good choice.  I know you mentioned wanting to limit your looking, but should you change your mind, have a look at GIESELER Groß DAC which transformed my DSD listening at the cost of a considerably lighter wallet. :lol:  There is currently a demo unit doing the rounds in Melbourne.

By the way, the PS Audio DAC I’m considering is their entry level Nuwave DSD, not their Direct Stream. I’m not sure if that bit of info made it’s wsy through to the end of my post. 

 

That Gross DAC sounds interesting though. Is it possible to have a bit of kit that sounds on the same level as the PS Direct Stream for a quarter of the price?

 

I run Bitperfect over iTunes and the guys’s DSD Master app. While I like the idea of getting a home grown machine that can equal a rival like PS Audio, I’m still nervous about buying it for some reason. I will consider it after reading more. Thanks for the info and links. 

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3 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

@Snoopy8...should fill you in...I am not sure with the Oppos...read about it...

You can also use the older Sony Playstations...with the right instructions...

Can you run the optical out of a PlayStation into your computer or something, and get the dsd layer on that way?

Edited by JSBach
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20 minutes ago, JSBach said:

While I like the idea of getting a home grown machine that can equal a rival like PS Audio, I’m still nervous about buying it for some reason. I will consider it after reading more. Thanks for the info and links. 

Understand your nervousness. It is not a main stream and an unknown brand.  BUT the superb audio speaks for itself.  PM a few of the owners and contact Clay. And there is no risk on your behalf by trying out the demo/load unit at home.

 

20 minutes ago, JSBach said:

Can you run the optical out of a PlayStation into your computer or something, and get the dsd layer on that way?

You can use optical out but you will then need the physical disk each time you play it.

 

The ripped DSF (Sony DSD format) files sit on your Mac Mini. You play them the same way as your ALAC (Apple bitperfect) files.

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Ok, that is interesting. But...So little time to do all this stuff! I read the link on how to get the dsd layer off an SACD and it looks quite involved. 

 

I have a question regarding your last post. If you run the digital out from an SACD player playing an SACD into a DAC that can handle DSD, do you get the DSD or the redbook layer through the DAC?

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Just now, JSBach said:

Ok, that is interesting. But...So little time to do all this stuff! I read the link on how to get the dsd layer off an SACD and it looks quite involved. 

Once it is set up, It is very easy to use.  There is a word doc in the oppo SACD post which summarises the process.

3 minutes ago, JSBach said:

I have a question regarding your last post. If you run the digital out from an SACD player playing an SACD into a DAC that can handle DSD, do you get the DSD or the redbook layer through the DAC?

A SACD player has a choice to output DSD or Redbook, usually a menu setup. The DSD DAC will display & use whichever format that it gets e.g. PCM 44.1 (CDs) or DSD 64 (SACDs).

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I didn’t know that. Thanks again for your info. Like I said, I’ve been very satisfied with the sound from my current setup for many years, and have only recently started to catch up on the developments in audio. If I had not bought those new speakers, I might have continued on unaware...the horror, the horror! This is a lot of fun!

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Although there is double rate DSD which would be good to have. I’ll have to look into whether SACD machines can handle more than 64 from a USB. 

Edited by JSBach
Typing on a phone with a mind of its own.
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