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Snoopy8

Groß DAC & Pre-Amp?

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Using the Groß digital volume control with the remote and connected into SGR CX3B powered speakers. As you know, audio is wonderful ! :party

 

Am of the old(?) school that the best pre-amp is no pre-amp, but @bhobba in this post suggested that only the best pre-amps like the PS Audio BHK or the AR SP-10 are worth it!   (As an interesting aside,  a BHK review mentioned that PS Audio's CEO was in the "no pre-amp" camp but changed his views and produced the BHK).

 

Just wondering how many of the Groß DAC owners (& those who have demoed it) connect direcly to active speakers or power amps and how many use a pre-amp?  If using a pre-amp, what pre-amp and why?  How does the pre-amp affect the sound (hopefully for the better) ?

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3 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Using the Groß digital volume control with the remote and connected into SGR CX3B powered speakers. As you know, audio is wonderful ! :party

  (As an interesting aside,  a BHK review mentioned that PS Audio's CEO was in the "no pre-amp" camp but changed his views and produced the BHK).

It's all marketing!  Talk about loss of credibility!  

 

We dont have a preamp in the product range so no Preamp is best!

Now we  do have a Preamp in the range so have a listen to this; awesome hey? 

 

Why anyone reads and take the BS seriously especially from BHK is beyond me!   I stay away from comments like that that's made by marketeers.

 

Preamps colour the sound drastically, after all the signal passes 100% through it and will definately have a real effect!  Especially via the volume control.

 very important factor is input sensitivity, gain  of the power amp and Impedance matching.  The lest sensitivity of that power amp input, the more likely you are to benefit with a Preamp, as it adds overall gain compared to just the output of a dac with a max of 2.0V 

That's why using a dac with volume control to bypassed a Preamp is not for everyone.  When I did it and posted the comments, you find one or 2 later posting that they had a collapse in sounds stage and weight and it sounds schi tt.

 

 

Edited by Addicted to music

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On 2/10/2018 at 2:26 AM, Addicted to music said:

Preamps colour the sound drastically, after all the signal passes 100% through it and will definately have a real effect! 

That is the key question: how much coloration ?  Although, some people pick a pre-amp because of it!

 

On 2/10/2018 at 2:26 AM, Addicted to music said:

 very important factor is input sensitivity, gain  of the power amp and Impedance matching.

Agree it is a one reason to use a pre-amp.

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

No comments from others ?  Or is this too controversial a topic that belongs in the "Great Audio Debate" section of the forum?  Rather than start a debate, I am more curious on what people are using.

 

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Guest Sime

Life is always better with a little color :lol:

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I've just finished a demo of the Gross, and ran it through Clay's Pre-amp, as that's the one I've got!!! I want to maintain my vinyl rig, so a pre-amp is more or less essential. As I'm committed to an Australian made system I'll look at upgrading the pre once Anthony Holton get's his up and running, or Clay does one, or I find another suitable alternative. If I was running digital-only I'd certainly consider omitting the pre.

Cheers, Steve :-)

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10 hours ago, Wiffle said:

I've just finished a demo of the Gross, and ran it through Clay's Pre-amp, as that's the one I've got!!! I want to maintain my vinyl rig, so a pre-amp is more or less essential. As I'm committed to an Australian made system I'll look at upgrading the pre once Anthony Holton get's his up and running, or Clay does one, or I find another suitable alternative. If I was running digital-only I'd certainly consider omitting the pre.

Cheers, Steve :-)

Why not the Konverter?

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Why not the Konverter?
I did think seriously about it, but decided to keep the two parts separate for future flexibility...

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On 17/04/2018 at 9:44 PM, Wiffle said:
On 17/04/2018 at 9:36 PM, Snoopy8 said:
Why not the Konverter?

I did think seriously about it, but decided to keep the two parts separate for future flexibility...

I saw from your other posts that you made the jump to the Konverter. 👏 What changed your mind? And what is it like?

-------

I have been investigating pairing preamps with the Groß. More soon...

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I’m also going through a setup change and bringing in my 2ch listening with the HT family room. Currently I have a Gross but I’m considering a Konverter for HT to my monoblocks. So #wiffle any thoughts?

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On 02/06/2018 at 3:18 PM, Raffinator said:

I’m also going through a setup change and bringing in my 2ch listening with the HT family room. Currently I have a Gross but I’m considering a Konverter for HT to my monoblocks. So #wiffle any thoughts?

How are you planning to put together the 2CH & HT systems?  I assume you intend to share the mains but what about the sub?  Can you use the SV-800 integrated tube amp as your "preamp"?  I believe it does not have a HT bypass but that can be overcome by setting the volume so that it matches during HT playback and mark it with a bit of tape.  

 

The Konverter is convenient 1 box solution as a DAC and preamp.  The passive HT bypass is a plus.  Have not heard the Konverter but I believe it is slighlty behind in AQ to the Groß.  Also, it is a solid state preamp and you may want a tube preamp. 

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I use a Konverter for multi-channel, but don't use its bypass option. The analogue outs of the Oppo 205 go straight to the analogue Konverter "Input 1", then to a power amp. So it's bypassing the Konverter's DAC, the preamp part just being used to cut output. (Other 205 outputs go to integrated amps, and a DIY volume control for the Centre power amp).

 

That's one way of doing it; using the Oppo's DACs, and not a "receiver".

 

I don't see that it's fair to say 

36 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

not heard the Konverter but I believe it is slighlty behind in AQ to the Groß.

as this is one person's speculation, and the Groß still needs attenuation before a power amp. Any attenuation or preamp will probably affect the sound, so I can't see that a comparison can be valid.

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45 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

How are you planning to put together the 2CH & HT systems?  I assume you intend to share the mains but what about the sub?  Can you use the SV-800 integrated tube amp as your "preamp"?  I believe it does not have a HT bypass but that can be overcome by setting the volume so that it matches during HT playback and mark it with a bit of tape.  

 

The Konverter is convenient 1 box solution as a DAC and preamp.  The passive HT bypass is a plus.  Have not heard the Konverter but I believe it is slighlty behind in AQ to the Groß.  Also, it is a solid state preamp and you may want a tube preamp. 

The Konverter has HT bypass built in. Clay previously mentioned that if it is powered off, the connections are set to passthrough. That's a feature I'm after. I use an Onkyo AVR for surround. Sub not in use for 2Ch. That works for BioBrian's setup as well.

 

As for the SV-800... that will be getting listed soon. Would have been kept if it had a HT bypass.

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3 hours ago, BioBrian said:

I don't see that it's fair to say 

as this is one person's speculation, and the Groß still needs attenuation before a power amp. Any attenuation or preamp will probably affect the sound, so I can't see that a comparison can be valid.

Sorry, it was not my intention to provoke such a strong reaction from a Konverter owner. The Groß can be used, without a preamp, to feed a power amp or active speakers (my setup).  The Konverter is using a similiar DAC section to feed a preamp section, which can change the sound.  

3 hours ago, Raffinator said:

The Konverter has HT bypass built in. Clay previously mentioned that if it is powered off, the connections are set to passthrough. That's a feature I'm after. I use an Onkyo AVR for surround. Sub not in use for 2Ch. That works for BioBrian's setup as well.

 

As for the SV-800... that will be getting listed soon. Would have been kept if it had a HT bypass.

Sounds like the Konverter is on the way...

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Snoopy8, I was just expressing concern about the formation of urban myth. 

14 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

I believe it is slighlty behind in AQ to the Groß

This only needs to be said once, and it becomes folk-lore. I don't think it's substantiated. If anything, the DAC output in the Groß would be the one with compromise, if any, over the Konverter DAC, from what my possibly selective memory has retained.

 

The other issue is that it's difficult to compare the performance of the inbuilt preamp of the Konverter with external preamps. As I think I've said elsewhere, first you have to consider that when using an external pre, you staightaway have 4 extra plugs, 4 extra sockets, 2 pieces of cable, and 12 extra solder joints. Then a possibly fair comparison would be with a preamp of approx $1650 rrp. Esoterica shouldn't be part of that conversation.

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