SL1200 Upgrade Considerations

[Teksiis]

Howdy all, not sure if this should be here or in the "Beginners & Purchasing Advice" section, please feel free to move if it is more suitable there.

Roughly four and a half months ago I purchased Betty the SL120 :

Betty and I have shared some amazing moments together in our short time, as such I feel she deserves a special treat. 

All silliness aside, I have just purchased an Ortofon 2M Blue to replace the cart that came with the TT and I am now considering upgrading the tonearm.

I am wondering if this is a worthwhile investment and if so where a good starting point would be, and I suppose as a secondary question would I be better off spending the money somewhere else in the system?

 

I am not sure how relevant all the other info is but here is the system as it stands:

 - SL120 Fitted with an SL1200 MK II arm
- Ortofon OM ProS (About to be replaced with the OM2 Blue)
- Yamaha AX-497 Amplifier (Using the amps built in phono stage)
- Dali Concept 6 and B&W DM602 S3s (Currently having a shoot out between the speakers to decide which stays)

I understand that with the new cart, a tonearm would see me spending well over what the TT cost me to begin with however there is something about the old Technics TTs that appeals to me.

 

Any suggestions and/or advice appreciated.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Terry


 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Teksiis

[mloutfie]

Best value for money would be KAB USA tonearm damping system https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/m1200.htm sadly for SL1200 not much you can do on the drive itself because of different motor wiring and power supply wiring compared to SL1200 mk2 onwards

[EV Cali]

Hi Terry

It is great that you are passionate about your SL1200 but you need to be realistic about the deck and as you are doing, carefully consider upgrades and their value.

 

Fitting a better cart is not really an issue as you can always transfer it to  a new turntable if you upgrade latter.

The SL 1200 could originally be purchased with out an arm and a lot of people at the time  fitted an SME arm so that is something to consider.

 

But If you like Technics direct drives you would probably be better served by selling the SL1200  and buying a SL1200 Mk 11.

The Mk11 is Quarts locked so has much better speed control and is an overall  improvement.

Once you have a Mk11 you would be able to better justify a new arm and as the link  @mloutfie provided show  , the sky is the limit for tweaking them.

 

I have a MK11 as a second TT  it performs well, sounds good and looks cool 

 

SL 1200 mK11

 

 

[Candyflip]

I had the SL-120, and moved on to a Rega RP6 (don’t bother) and now a Pioneer PL-50 woody. I wouldn’t bother upgrading the arm, but that’s only because I don’t think the table itself justifies the expense. However the cart upgrades are definitely worth the coin, as Cali already noted.

 

enjoy it!

[Cope]

6 hours ago, EV Cali said:

But If you like Technics direct drives you would probably be better served by selling the SL1200  and buying a SL1200 Mk 11.

The Mk11 is Quarts locked so has much better speed control and is an overall  improvement.

Once you have a Mk11 you would be able to better justify a new arm and as the link  @mloutfie provided show  , the sky is the limit for tweaking them.

This is good advice. The only advantage of the SL120 is it's easier to rewire and swap arms, but honestly I think the quartz lock is more important. There are plenty mkiis out there, although most need a good service. I replaced the headshell on mine with an AudioTechnica TechniHard (stiffer, allows azimuth adjustment), added a MC AudioTechnica cartridge, and bought an Emotiva XPS1 pre-amp. It sounds pretty good to me.

 

I bought the KAB fluid damper, but was told by the ex-Panasonic engineer who serviced the table that these are largely a gimmick and not necessary if everything is well adjusted.

 

I've also been told by a multiple SL1200 owner that rewiring is a worthwhile upgrade, but the rest (brass platters, different bearings) is just bling. If you're going to spend that much, just import one of the super expensive new decks.

[Jebediah]

Personally mate I wouldn't invest too heavily in your SL120. I'd just chuck on the 2M Blue and see how it sounds first, you might be satisfied for a while until upgradeitis rears its inevitably ugly head. There may be other areas of your system that need looking at before spending a bunch on TT upgrades. FWIW I have an SL1200MK2 that I've kitted out with a 2M Black, and it does sound very nice, but that's a fairly hefty step above what you're running atm in dollar terms, but you might be happy with just the blue for a while.

 

Best of luck!

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Jebediah

[Teksiis]

Thanks for the responses and advice guys it really is appreciated, I am not sure which way I will go yet but at least I will be a bit more armed with both knowledge and options. 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Terry

Edited January 17, 2018 by Teksiis

[Peter_F]

12 hours ago, EV Cali said:

But If you like Technics direct drives you would probably be better served by selling the SL1200  and buying a SL1200 Mk 11.

The Mk11 is Quarts locked so has much better speed control and is an overall  improvement.

Yes!

 

The SL1200 MII is probably the best spinner you can buy for the money IMO, and certainly worthy of an arm upgrade too.  

[Teksiis]

I was going to start a new thread but this is probably relevant here.

My new cart (2M Blue) has arrived!  Thanks @The Spider, so I should have that on the TT sometime this week and be able to see what I am working with. I think I will be hanging onto the SL120 even if I get another TT so I might just look into other arms down the track.

At some point this year though it is likely I will upgrade Betty the SL120 and move her to second system duties. There are a few considerations on my list at the moment both old and new.

 

 - SL1200/1210 mkII 
- Rega, looking at a few different options old and new

_ Thorens again looking at a few different options

- Linn LP12 if the budget stretches that far.

- Musichall MMF5.1/7.1

- Goldnote Valore

 

I really like the aestetics of the Musichall decks however I am struggling to find many in depth reviews, likewise with the Goldnote TT's the others seem to have limitless information about them online.

 

I was hoping some of you lovely folks would be able to share you experience with either the Musichall TT's and/or the Goldnote ones, also if there is anything that isn't on my list that should be, at this stage the upper limit of my budget would be 2k and preferably hoping to get away cheaper than that.

Again any help is appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Terry

[Benny G]

hey man

I have 2 stock 1210's and a 1200 with a rega rb300 (but it's not in my possession yet, hopefully will be getting it in the next month or so)

grado carts atm on the 1210's and a Denon DL110 on the 1200 that is coming

we could do a temporary swap or even tee up a bit of a listening session with all of them when I get the new 1200

I have two very modest (by SNA standards) but very nice, and also very different systems, one is my desktop but I play records on it more than anything else, and lounge room.

IMO if you are keeping the sl120, why would you buy another technics direct drive. and I love 1200's, it is all I need, but I don't think there's enough difference between a 120 and a 1200 to need both, try something different

I like the look of clearaudio and people here seem to rate them, and they often come up for sale here as people upgrade. in the $1200 ballpark I think used

Edited January 29, 2018 by Benny G

[Teksiis]

@Benny G  Thanks for the advice and a listening session might be in order!  

I forgot to add clearaudio to the list they are another I have been considering. 

This will all be down the track a bit there are other parts of the system which need to happen first.  I need to get a DAC sorted as a priority, at the moment I am moving my little desktop one out to the main system ererytime I want to listen to my digital collection it's a right pain in the ass. 

I probably won't be purchasing a new TT till mid/late this year, but I would like to go into the process armed with as much info as possible.

[Cope]

Before I bought the SL1200, Clearaudio was at the top of my "if I buy new" list. Seemed the most complete package available at a reasonable-ish price. Never heard a bad word about them. 

[Tweaky]

I wrote a long post several years ago about upgrading Technics SL1200's, put it this way, you can basically upgrade just about every aspect of the deck, and apart from having the same basic dimensions as the original 'Donor Deck' , it could end up being pretty much in between  the new Technics SL-1200GR and a SP- 10.

 

It depends just how far you want to go, and if you think small incremental upgrades are making a difference....ask LINN LP12 owners that have gone down the various upgrade paths over the years.

A lot of the suitable upgrades available for modding a AUS version of a SL1200 are small UK based cottage manufacturers [motors, power supplies, spindles, platters, Mats etc], the KAB Mods are more for keeping the deck pretty much as is.

 

Probably the best mod to do, which if you don't like will still leave you with the components easily sold on if found not to your liking, would be swapping out the standard Technics arm with a REGA of some type, or Arm that uses a REGA mount, and get the Origin Live REGA armboard mount for the Technics, which Decibel HiFi in QLD carries.

http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/brand/origin-live/?pgnum=2

 

If you go down this route, get the Origin Live sliding VTA adjuster for REGA arms at the same time [Roy Gandy from REGA doesn't believe VTA makes a difference....lots of people disagree, so do I]

You can tweak REGA arms to suit with various upgrades, up to where you get to the point where it might be better to keep the upgraded arm and upgrade the turntable.

 

Plenty of ways you can go about this.

Read this post from WHAT HiFI? as a example of a nearly fully tricked out modded SL-1200, it will give you some idea about what I'm talking about....you can go further than this.

https://www.whathifi.com/news/best-technics-sl-1200-turntable-ever-made

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Tweaky

[Teksiis]

5 hours ago, twofires said:

Before I bought the SL1200, Clearaudio was at the top of my "if I buy new" list. Seemed the most complete package available at a reasonable-ish price. Never heard a bad word about them. 

Yea, they definitely seem to be a popular option, I am still really curious about the musichall and goldnote TT's as well hopefully someone can chime in with their experience on those.

 

@Tweaky   Thanks heaps for taking the time out to offer so much info in the one post, it definitely offers some food for thought.   

At this stage I think I am going to get a second TT and then work on tinkering around with the SL120 down the track, I like the idea of taking something and modifying it to get it the way I want it, and to see just what it can do.  I don't think I'll go too overboard but I think it will make for a fun little project.  

Edited January 31, 2018 by Teksiis

[Wimbo]

1 hour ago, Teksiis said:

Yea, they definitely seem to be a popular option, I am still really curious about the musichall and goldnote TT's as well hopefully someone can chime in with their experience on those.

 

@Tweaky   Thanks heaps for taking the time out to offer so much info in the one post, it definitely offers some food for thought.   

At this stage I think I am going to get a second TT and then work on tinkering around with the SL120 down the track, I like the idea of taking something and modifying it to get the way I want it, and to see just what it can do.  I don't think I'll go too overboard but I think it will make for a fun little project.  

This is what you need. Weighs 40 kg though.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/exclusive-one-week-technics-new-sl-1000r-direct-drive-turntable

Edited January 31, 2018 by Wimbo

[Teksiis]

@Wimbo I had best reinforce my my little old wooden cabinet then.  

[Cope]

15 minutes ago, Teksiis said:

@Wimbo I had best reinforce my my little old wooden cabinet then.  

Your little old wallet, too!

[Benny G]

On 29/01/2018 at 8:06 PM, Teksiis said:

@Benny G  Thanks for the advice and a listening session might be in order!  

 

sounds good, I will hit you up when I get the new deck. basically as soon as I have a couple of days off where a drive to canberra is feasible!

@Tweaky that is pretty much my end game I think (although never say never) the SME V arm on a 1210 and an external PSU.

only problem is when I get into that tier (I'm speculating because I've never been there) basically I need to upgrade my entire system around it to do it justice

Edited February 1, 2018 by Benny G

[aussievintage]

Here's an alternate thought.  I have an SL150 - early non-quartz lock version.   Once the speed pots were cleaned, and set, I just turn it on, and the speed hardly ever varies.   Day after day it just turns stably and spot on speed.  Now, if you experience similar stability on the SL120, I would be asking just what quartz lock will do for you?  maybe spend the money elsewhere?   

 

Maybe a better cart than the Blue?  I tend to think upgrade styluses on cheaper cart get you great value for money.  I run an AT95 with LP-Gear Vivid line stylus that I think is impressive.

 

Maybe a better phono preamp?

[audiofeline]

I can understand your attachment to your turntable - you have spent many pleasurable hours together.  But trust me, if you upgrade your turntable you will form a close bond to it very quickly, whilst still maintaining pleasant memories of the time spent with your previous TT. 

[Tweaky]

On 2/1/2018 at 11:16 AM, Benny G said:

sounds good, I will hit you up when I get the new deck. basically as soon as I have a couple of days off where a drive to canberra is feasible!

@Tweaky that is pretty much my end game I think (although never say never) the SME V arm on a 1210 and an external PSU.

only problem is when I get into that tier (I'm speculating because I've never been there) basically I need to upgrade my entire system around it to do it justice

I've been doing this hobby pretty seriously since 1975, I've found the best hard way to upgrade is first find a pair of speakers you love [I found Harbeth SHL5"s 10 years ago and that's it, never to be changed, even though I've had speakers much bigger and 20 times the price of them, the Harbeth's are the best all rounder I've ever come across]....then work on your room acoustics the best you can without driving the Missus to wanting to kill you, just moving around furniture can do wonders, and a lot of it can be DIY projects, so it gives you something to do while saving for new gear.......Amps can be a easy purchase as long as your not asking too much of them, and IMHO should be the last upgrade as long as you have a capable amp currently that can drive your preferred speakers.....you source should be the 2nd component you should be concentrating on after the speakers and room, with digital it's not really that hard to get at least a pretty good to great sound if you do your homework, but analog can be very time expensive if nothing else to get to that same level, or above, it takes a LOT of reading, a LOT of lists to make up on compatibility and upgrade paths, it's something you really have to plan out in advance.

 

As much as I love the analog sound, and I still have a good portion of my record collection [that the nieces haven't absconded with], I haven't run a TT in many years....the reason has been a very simple one, DUST.....it just got the better of me, and made playing records a chore [although this thread has got me rummaging around various boxes looking for old tonearms and cartridges that I have..somewhere?

I have gone down this SL-1500 upgrade path before, and so did a friend at the same time, we used to listen to each other upgrades, and swap them between decks, as we kept them pretty much identical during the upgrade path, so one deck was always the control.

I jumped off the upgrade path before it got to the level of my mate, who fitted a SME V and KOESTU  to his highly modified deck, which did sound amazing, but IMHO was sort of lost due to the not so great resolving power of the rest of his system, and mainly his small stand mount speakers....hence my recommendation on upgrade path.

 

There are better options than upgrading a SL-1200 or any of it's ilk, I'll send you a PM with what that is, and a few links.....put it this way, it's the path I was looking at going down before I just gave up on the idea due to extreme DUST that I suffer .....but you have me thinking about doing it again.....you bastard.

[Benny G]

@Tweakysent you a pm before I read the full post

unfortunately I'm not in any kind of position financially to do that - I basically pick up the odd bit of gear second hand and put together budget systems without any real plan, until I am happy for a while. Live in a tiny rental apartment so investing big based on the space isn't really an option.

I'm not such a big audiophile tbh, I mean I know what I like, but I'm baffled by some of the stuff I read on here

and the missus already wants to kill me, the crates of records are literally blocking out the sunlight.

[astormsau]

I would consider a phono stage upgrade to an outboard phono stage. It is something you can reuse in the future and there are often great stages for sale on the forums for great prices. There was a GSP Reflex a few weeks ago for about $400 which was a steal and may still be for sale.

Drew

[Teksiis]

Well I've received and fitted the new cart, what a difference it really has made a huge change.  

 

1 hour ago, astormsau said:

I would consider a phono stage upgrade to an outboard phono stage. It is something you can reuse in the future and there are often great stages for sale on the forums for great prices. There was a GSP Reflex a few weeks ago for about $400 which was a steal and may still be for sale.

Drew

I'd thought about a separate phono stage however I was also told that the Yamaha amp that I am using does quite a good job with it's inbuilt one so I had sort of put that on the back burner for now.

 

 

 

[astormsau]

I’d suggest trying a seperate phono stage in all honesty. You may be quite surprised.

Drew