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georgehifi

Vote: Best Free to Air HD TV????

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Only interested in "free to air" HD picture.

 

After looking at free to air and adjusting them all to the best for me, all the new stuff including O'Led

I just can't/don't want to change from >2012 Panasonic Plasma VT or GT models, some Samsung Plasma's as well.

 

I'm interested it what you guys think.

 

Cheers George  

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1 minute ago, georgehifi said:

I'm interested it what you guys think.

Coming from plasma, I would strongly suggest OLED otherwise you will miss those blacks, which will be better again with an OLED;

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/tv-shows

 

If you want to try polishing the turd that is SD FTA, an STB and external video processor may be best if you find you are unhappy with internal VP of the TV.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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23 minutes ago, JSmith said:

I would strongly suggest OLED otherwise you will miss those blacks, which will be better again with an OLED;

Yes the big dollar Oled's I saw, equalled the plasma's I mentioned on detail and motion blur for HD free to air, but still the colours on the Oled's weren't as natural, say when watching HD test cricket, they were too stark and skin tones were off, and no amount of tweaking would fix either. And yes the blacks were a bit better on Oled.

 

Cheers George 

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16 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

no amount of tweaking would fix either.

I'd be very surprised if after proper calibration that was still the case.

 

I just think you'll notice the lighter black level at night with an LED LCD.

 

If you go LED LCD, get a FALD model that is well regarded.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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the thing to keep in mind is the larger the tv you go for the more obvious the quality (poor) of broadcast and also the quality of the set. ie faults either with display capability or broadcast is just more apparent as you go bigger. or sit closer.

 

we use a 50" set now watching at 2.8m and thats OK for fta TV. up on the projector at a 92" screen is passable for good broadcasts eg cricket and other key events concerts etc in HDTV. poor SD and sub SD will just look and be more apparent as sub standard. 

 

re the oleds you saw being off in colours ? which ones. some are limited in calibration capability :) many are often in shop mode ie out of box with retina blinding output and colours pumped to the max to attract ! :D 

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12 minutes ago, :) al said:

the thing to keep in mind is the larger the tv you go for the more obvious the quality (poor)

That is also very correct, the free to air SD on a Panasonic GT 55" I have at the moment looks much worse than the HD free to air which is absolutely pristine . But on the O'led's it was not such a yawing chasm on the same size set. O'leds seem to be a better equaliser for SD V HD.

 

Cheers George  

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It's not just size and colours, have a good look at all TV's before you decide

I was thinking of demoting and replacing my 50"Samsung C series with a larger display, though  I can't get anything much bigger than 65" in the available space.

I spent some time in one shop and got them to put free to air (The test match) on. The result ? I am sticking with the plasma.

In comparison with my plasma, even the best were  blurry and not as sharp, and seeing the ball as a comet and not a dot when it was hit put me off.

JB

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1 minute ago, johndee said:

I spent some time in one shop

The thing is one can't really compare or test various TV's properly in a bright store and with settings applied to steer people towards one or away from another.

 

There are many settings that may actually create what you describe with the ball that once disabled may yield a better result.

 

Then there are just crap panels with rubbish processing too... ;)

 

Pick a few TV's based on top rated professional and user reviews, take some content in on a USB you are familiar with and/or test patterns. Ask for the remote and bring some "recommended settings" with you to apply. Stand an appropriate distance back relative to your viewing distance and old TV's size. If they won't let you do all this... go elsewhere.

 

Even with the above though, the bright white strobing fluro tubes in a store still make it difficult to judge black levels.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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I have 75 inch Sony 940C.    over the past week watching test cricket on 90, Hopman cup on 70 and T20 on 13.    It does not get much better than this.

  SD can look quite good to absolute rubbish - but my Sony beats my Pioneer Kuro in EVERY respect.

 

Go 75 inch - get a Sony FALD LCD.

 

55 or 65 inch - OLED.

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What I did notice with the Panasonic 55" GT Plasma even though it is just full HD, I gave it a 4k demo via Chromecast ultra, and it improved even more again, alarmingly so. So to me they had more definition to give above full HD. And you can prove this by giving it a BluRay dvd.

 

I wish  Panasonic or Samsung would bring back just one model of hi-end plasma with 4k ability, just for those  who want it, don't care about extra power consumption.    

 

Cheers George 

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10 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

hi-end plasma with 4k ability

4K+ resolution and larger sizes demanded by the market meant plasma had to go.

 

They never really consumed much more power... maybe a few dollars more a month at most.

 

If your plasma still works, you're happy with the size and you don't want to get into UHD yet... maybe just hang onto it for now until it pops.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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1 hour ago, JSmith said:

maybe just hang onto it for now until it pops.

 

currently am happy to keep sticking it out with our pio kuro (last and best) for every day FTA HD TV. I do have the projector for a larger screen experience for 4K UHD though. 

 

there is a lot of flux right now with displays as well. OLED seems to be settling in. there seem to be a few HDR standards and am sure there will be a bit of a shake out at some stage. there is also a new hdmi 2.1 coming. likely displays will have it next year. so if something you need (i think mainly its gaming that might want it) then best hanging out as long as can.

 

the 4k aspect is least benefit with displays. its the other elements of uhd ie wcg and HDR that bring the key gains and this is regardless of size. 

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9 hours ago, JSmith said:

4K+ resolution and larger sizes demanded by the market meant plasma had to go.

 

Does that mean if Panasonic or Samsung were to reintroduce Plasma they couldn't make a 4K version now with the technology that's around??

 

As for the power consumption, the Panasonic top ones VT and GT models have 4  x extraction fans on the back and I believe they consume at least twice what equivalent led does, that doesn't worry me, because of the FTA HD picture quality, and they can be got s/h if you look for a good one (low screen hours) at 1/10th the price of similar size new O'led.

 

Here's something from a TV tech that good to watch. 

 

 

Cheers  George

Edited by georgehifi

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2 hours ago, georgehifi said:

 

Does that mean if Panasonic or Samsung were to reintroduce Plasma they couldn't make a 4K version now with the technology that's around??

 

Here's something from a TV tech that good to watch. 

 

I believe there was an issue with the size of pixels for a 4K panel from a technical standpoint making it completely impractical to build. Also happened because no one was buying plasma much anymore, plus the bigger they got the more power they used compared to other tech. 55/65" sizes were only about 30% more power, but the bigger would have been more. Cost wise per household not much, but the increased usage over populations would be large.

 

The demand for bigger screens would have meant a knock on the environment too if the market did continue to embrace plasma.

 

Shame the "tech" couldn't spell Vizio properly... ;)

 

Not to mention why he's comparing one of the best plasma's made with a substandard LED LCD;

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/e-series-2017

 

You may find the below interesting;

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2015/11/10/oled-tv-beats-plasma-tv-in-new-public-shoot-out/#7e70edd41df4

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/i-still-watch-my-plasma-tv-even-though-my-oled-is-better/

 

"The biggest difference between the OLED and the plasma is that the OLED is brighter and the colors pop more."

 

https://www.lifewire.com/oled-vs-plasma-3276234

 

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/shootout-results-201708224491.htm

 

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1500009337

 

JSmith :ninja:

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20 minutes ago, JSmith said:

OLED colors pop more."

I also find this unnatural compared to good plasma, as the green colour of forests or grass on football or cricket, takes on an almost fluro effect compared to plasma, which has more natural green, but you are right O'led is much brighter and better for brightly lit viewing rooms.

 

Cheers George   

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Just converted this week from a great Panasonic V10 58" Plasma to a Panasonic EX950 65" OLED

The Plasma was 50 kg, the OLED 23 kg.

The plasma was 3 cm narrower, but about 10 cm or more higher, because of the frame surrounding the panel.

We haven't adjusted any settings yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

 

"The biggest difference between the OLED and the Plasma is that the OLED is brighter and the colours pop more".

That is true, but I think it underplays the improvement in clarity/definition that the OLED provides vs a V10 plasma (circa 2009, with 'black-retaining chip fitted).  That might be a V10 issue - I don't know.  I don't have a more recent plasma to compare.

 

We were watching the news the other night, and the face of one of the male presenters looked more pasty (pale) than I recall.  Whether this is reality, or is an issue with the picture adjustments is an unknown.  Later, I'll look at calibration and that might clarify the issue.  It is difficult to discuss skin tones when you don't actually know what 'reality' is actually like.

 

As for UHD (and Free to Air, and HD Foxtel) - the thing that has surprised me is that with the OLED, you actually want to sit closer to the TV.

We are about 3.5 m from the TV (room layout, WAF issues etc) and I hope to get the lounge moved to 3.0m (closer would be great, but will never be an option that will get approved).  I never wanted to sit closer with our V10 plasma.

 

Benje

Edited by Benje
spelling

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Nice tv benje keep us posted re how pana goes :) not many comments about the their sets with people mostly buying lg few buying Sony :)

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33 minutes ago, Benje said:

Panasonic V10 58" Plasma

Very old ones, the VT's and GT's were considerably better sets.

 

Cheers George

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40 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

I also find this unnatural compared to good plasma

As mentioned, once calibrated the colours will be absolutely spot on for the appropriate source.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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1 hour ago, JSmith said:

As mentioned, once calibrated the colours will be absolutely spot on for the appropriate source.

On FTA HD. No mater how long I spent doing just that with the o'led, I just couldn't get it as natural as I could with the Panasonic plasma.

Get the grass/forests looking the right shades of green without them being highlighted fluro ("popping more") looking and the skin tones were off as Benje explained " We were watching the news the other night, and the face of one of the male presenters looked more pasty (pale) than I recall." I call it the mannequin effect. And he experienced this with an O'led compared to even a very old plamsa.

 

Cheers George 

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georgehifi

 

careful - the V10 wasn't a 'very old plasma'.

The 50" plasma TH-PX70A (1080i) that preceded it was 'very old'.  That went as a result of the OLED buy.

 

Now that you are quoting what I found, perhaps you'll also believe all of the fantastic things I noted about the Panasonic OLED (which I did point out is pre-calibration, and has no real reference point apart from a V10 plasma and a more recent 44" LCD).  :)

As for 'the mannequin effect' - it may be that is what the intended outcome was from the make-up room at the news studio.  How would we know what the skin tone actually was on set?  Make-up is unnatural - it removes natural skin tones.

 

Benje

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1 hour ago, georgehifi said:

On FTA HD. No mater how long I spent doing just that with the o'led, I just couldn't get it as natural as I could with the Panasonic plasma.

What methods did you use for calibration?

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l don't have oled or plasma, but l do have a 55inch 4K Panasonic Viera LED from 2015 and a hell of a lot of FTA looks crap.  What does look amazing on FTA at the moment is the re-runs of Dr Who with David Tenant  - check it out and please tell me if l'm wrong.

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2 hours ago, georgehifi said:

No mater how long I spent doing just that with the o'led, I just couldn't get it as natural as I could with the Panasonic plasma

Unless you were in dark room conditions rather than a bright store, the process is pointless... especially if you can't adjust the 2/10 point grey-scale and gamma.

 

The new OLED panels can reach colour space that plasma cannot, but that doesn't mean it applied to a standard once calibrated properly.

 

As mentioned, if all this is too daunting (understandable), just stick with what you have until picture becomes clearer so to speak. ;)

 

JSmith :ninja:

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1 hour ago, Satanica said:

What methods did you use for calibration?

At friend place who's a TV tech also on his O'led, all of them using test pattern generator, and on another one, even into the service menu and tried doing some adjustments from there also with him.

On FTA HD just couldn't get O'led to equal the VT or GT plasma. Sure it was brighter and had better blacks, but nothing else, the plasma was just more natural and watchable.  

 

Cheers George 

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