magical Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 minute ago, stevoz said: I suspected that, re: assembly.....and looks like I had the drivers/cabinet origins the wrong way around. Cheers... They are still great value at a really reasonable price. 20 minutes ago, stevoz said: @Magicdog I thought the later HMF (Hyperboloid) range were the only one's to have Chinese made drivers, at least the mid's and woofers (designed by Hume L), as Vifa supplied the tweeters (XT25) for the HMF's . Definitely Chinese cabinets on those too. I've always assumed the ATS range had 'in house' manufactured drivers and were assembled in Australia with maybe just Chinese supplied cabinetry. Maybe just the real early stuff then? It says 'Made In Australia' on the back. I'm sorry but you're wrong, the "teardrop" tweeter in all the ATS range were all made in china, the cabinets were made in Belena NSW. Hume holds the patent for this design, the mid & bass drivers were also chinese. Unfortunately if their assembled in Oz they can be labled "made in Australia". Just like Loewe TV's that have asian panels but are "made in Germany". British flag on the back of Chinese Wharfdales are also up there with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, Magicdog said: They are still great value at a really reasonable price. I got mine very cheap on the 'bay.....represented excellent value for what they deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magical Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 On 26/12/2017 at 8:13 AM, CAVX said: Totally agree, but there are so many people that simply do not understand just how important a good centre is. My idea is to work out a budget (lets say the mains are $2000 and the centre is $400) and take the total ($2400) and divide that by 3, and buy 3 centres that make that total. 3x 800 centres will sound better for both types of program. Since I first got into surround in 1992, I have always had identical LCR speakers and over the years, all three have been upgraded. In the beginning when there wasn't really any decent centre speakers, we (my enthusiast friends at the time) would buy 3rd pair of speakers and go halves with a friend, then split the pair. This idea works for towers and bookshelves. Spot on! We were conned by eary centre channels as a horizontal sheilded spk suited the CRT tvs we all had, three identical spk's left right & centre is much more appealing. I tried the simple test of playing a Dynaudio setup with the centre in the normal position & then put in an identical speaker in the the central possie, huge improvement. Also three identical Legend spk across the front worked well. Having said that, I don't do it at home as I rarely watch tv or movies, music or playing music is more my speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magical Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 On 29/12/2017 at 10:08 PM, stevoz said: I suspected that, re: assembly.....and looks like I had the drivers/cabinet origins the wrong way around. Cheers... Dosn't really matter, Hume was in china a lot befote he retired and was/is a damned good electrical engineer, also likes his red wine( we've had many nights on the plonk) his speakers represented great value and are sorley missed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) On 29/12/2017 at 10:00 PM, Magicdog said: I'm sorry but you're wrong, the "teardrop" tweeter in all the ATS range were all made in china, the cabinets were made in Belena NSW. Hume holds the patent for this design, the mid & bass drivers were also chinese. Whilst the above is likely correct... so? The majority of parts in most consumer electronics are made there. As for multichannel music, why not? I agree with @CAVX that often matching LCR's are best, if not all surrounds matching too... but this can be an expensive journey and requires good space. I too prefer a good stereo setup for 2CH music... in reality though we may hear in stereo, but sound is really mono. JSmith Edited January 1, 2018 by JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, JSmith said: Whilst the above is likely correct... so? The majority of parts in most consumer electronics are made there. JSmith I don't think @Magicdog meant it was a bad thing, he was just correcting my belief that Aaron drivers were Oz made. I see nothing wrong with this fact either.....Chinese made often just means excellent 'value for money' in the audio world these days, as long as the 'brand' they're making it for has excellent quality control. It turns out all of my gear, Cambridge Audio (UK), Vincent (Germany) and the Aaron drivers (Australia) is all made in China. Only my Japanese made TT and all of my carts are not. Edited January 2, 2018 by stevoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 02/01/2018 at 5:15 AM, JSmith said: Whilst the above is likely correct... so? The majority of parts in most consumer electronics are made there. As for multichannel music, why not? I agree with @CAVX that often matching LCR's are best, if not all surrounds matching too... but this can be an expensive journey and requires good space. I too prefer a good stereo setup for 2CH music... in reality though we may hear in stereo, but sound is really mono. JSmith Stereo recordings can be either captured as stereo using multiple mics or as pan/pot stereo which is an artificial recreation of stereo. Film sound is typically pan/pot where mono sound elements are mixed into their final mixed position in post. There is a trend to use arrays of mics to capture real time multi channel sound. Each stem is indeed mono but when played back with the other stems in their correct assignment, give real time MC sound. The problem with buying LCRs is that most suppliers of speakers don't want to break a stereo pair. There are cases where certain speakers are made and sold individually. Another thing to consider about buying speakers for LCR is the dispersion pattern of the speaker. The most common approach is to buy a group of 3 centre speakers, but one still needs to be aware of how the sound radiates from a speaker such a the classic WTW arrays used as centre speakers in most systems. When this array was first created back in the 1970s (D'Applolito 3/2 geometric array) , the speakers were designed to work vertically. One thing that made these speakers popular (or not so popular depending on your listening tastes) is their ability to shape should into an ellipse that is (with the speaker running vertical) wider horizontally than vertical. This shaped sound can minimize the early reflections off the floor and ceiling. This will make dialogue easier to understand and I find it also makes a stereo sound stage a bit tighter. These speakers an become problematic as soon as the centre is laid down. Done mostly for aesthetic reasons, this ellipse sound pattern is suddenly turned 90 degrees. This not only messed up the acoustic polarity of the L and R, it radically affects the off axis listening response. So whist having 3 vertical WTWs works best, 3 horizontal speakers works better than 2 vertical and 1 horizontal. Controlled Vertical Directivity has been incorporated into many high end designs for years and was a big part of the original THX LCR design. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 22 hours ago, stevoz said: I don't think @Magicdog meant it was a bad thing, he was just correcting my belief that Aaron drivers were Oz made. I see nothing wrong with this fact either.....Chinese made often just means excellent 'value for money' in the audio world these days, as long as the 'brand' they're making it for has excellent quality control. It turns out all of my gear, Cambridge Audio (UK), Vincent (Germany) and the Aaron drivers (Australia) is all made in China. Only my Japanese made TT and all of my carts are not. For a time, even Peerless and Vifa drivers were made in China. The older drivers I have states "made in Denmark". The newer versions state "designed in Denmark". As I understand, they are now made back in Europe. China can make good stuff when QC is put in place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magical Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 03/01/2018 at 10:24 AM, CAVX said: For a time, even Peerless and Vifa drivers were made in China. The older drivers I have states "made in Denmark". The newer versions state "designed in Denmark". As I understand, they are now made back in Europe. China can make good stuff when QC is put in place. Apparantly a lot of drivers are coming out of India for the last few years. Dr Rod of Legend started using them in his $2k floorstanders and they sounded pretty damned good. I think it was Seas or Peerless that were having them made there(this was about 5 years ago). I had to replace some that were toasted by sn amp going dc, and i recall they looked very well made, though they did have some hand applied reenforcement put on them by the good Dr. I like &trust this guy, but my dog for some reason took an instant dislike to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A/V Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm not a multichannel music fan. It just seems gimicky to me. I much prefer the way a stereo image creates a sort of 'stage' where the voices are locateable in free space between the speakers. Ahhhh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAVX Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 05/01/2018 at 2:45 PM, Magicdog said: Apparantly a lot of drivers are coming out of India for the last few years. Dr Rod of Legend started using them in his $2k floorstanders and they sounded pretty damned good. I think it was Seas or Peerless that were having them made there(this was about 5 years ago). I had to replace some that were toasted by sn amp going dc, and i recall they looked very well made, though they did have some hand applied reenforcement put on them by the good Dr. I like &trust this guy, but my dog for some reason took an instant dislike to him. It makes sense that India will become the next mass producing country. Japan pretty much out priced itself and all the Japanese manufacturers relocated to China or Malaysia. China has learned (since the games in 08) that is better to produce higher quality, shorter runs of a product and the western world will even re-order. There will be a time when China out prices itself and everything will move west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I'm not a multichannel music fan. It just seems gimicky to me. I much prefer the way a stereo image creates a sort of 'stage' where the voices are locateable in free space between the speakers. Ahhhh... Between the speakers is probably okay for sparse or simple arrangements, but for large sonic creations, or large ensembles like orchestras et al, everything gets squished if it has to go between the speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magical Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 On 29/12/2017 at 10:32 PM, stevoz said: I got mine very cheap on the 'bay.....represented excellent value for what they deliver. Do you mind if I asked what you paid for them, and which model. I've been insids many of them & had numerous discussions with Hume, the designer re the crossover design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 12 hours ago, Magicdog said: Do you mind if I asked what you paid for them, and which model. I've been insids many of them & had numerous discussions with Hume, the designer re the crossover design. It's all in my signature below but I got a full 5.1ch set (2 x ATS5, 2 x ATS 1, a CC240 and a SUB240) for $880 and in 'near perfect' condition. An absolute bargain as that line up used to retail for almost $4000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
att23 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 I have recently setup a quadraphonic 4-channel in my room consisting of 4 floorstanding speakers, and have been enjoying some very good surround mix SACDs without a sub or centre. I wonder if I really need the centre speaker for surround music?? However, I am being limited by the scarcity of multichannel SACD/ bluray audio disc. Many are out of print, way too expensive, or not my music taste. I am not into downloading/streaming multichannel audio files and also don't have decent streaming component yet. I do not really like playing stereo recording and making my receiver to 'fake' the surround experience, as I prefer native multichannel recording. I wish I can make more use of my surround setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magical Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 The real problem with multi channel music is that is dosn't have anything to do with the original performance. The Eagles when hell freezes over is nuts as the sax solo comes from the rear channel while the player is standing on the right of the singer. I don't remember where i first read it but the first rule of multi channel mixing is don't throw sound arround because you can. Keep it in context. Don't trust the advice from anyone who plays you this eagles dvd. Also many people go for more speakers than one really good pair, a decent pair of $2k speakers will almost always sound better than a 5.1 speaker pack at the same price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newman Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Magicdog said: The real problem with multi channel music is that is dosn't have anything to do with the original performance. The Eagles when hell freezes over is nuts as the sax solo comes from the rear channel while the player is standing on the right of the singer. I don't remember where i first read it but the first rule of multi channel mixing is don't throw sound arround because you can. Good MCH mixing has two main approaches to the placement of instruments in the available space. One is called the audience mix, where instruments are spread across a stage in front of you, and your post suggests that you think that this is the only legitimate approach. The other is called the stage mix, and places the listener more in the position of the band leader or conductor. Sound engineers who have tried both approaches report that feedback from listeners is that the stage mix is superior in terms of enjoyment and quality of experience. Naturally there is a minority who differ. IMO we need to get over the fixated idea that the only legitimate listening perspective is the 'passive audience in the paid seats' perspective. Imagine instead that, instead of your $500 seat in a good position, the performers pointed to you and invited you to join them in the '$20,000 seat' up on stage with them. Oh wow, fully immersed and having the experience of a lifetime. Why say no to that? Remember that concertgoers seem to pay more to get seats that are closer, closer, close as they can get (unless too loud). If they had the option of the '$20,000 seat' it would be treasured, and enjoyed to the max. So why do audiophiles get all surly and resentful if a sound engineer works toward giving them a piece of that? Naturally, the stage mix can be done poorly, just like the audience mix can be. But that is not the point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
att23 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Magicdog said: Also many people go for more speakers than one really good pair, a decent pair of $2k speakers will almost always sound better than a 5.1 speaker pack at the same price. Agreed. But I would advise two pairs of really good $2k speakers rather than just one pair of $2k speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magical Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 14/01/2018 at 11:03 AM, stevoz said: It's all in my signature below but I got a full 5.1ch set (2 x ATS5, 2 x ATS 1, a CC240 and a SUB240) for $880 and in 'near perfect' condition. An absolute bargain as that line up used to retail for almost $4000. $880? You did get a bargain! You can't replace the drivers for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromelang Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I enjoy listening to m-ch on sacd Some of my favourite mixes include: Era - the mass Scorpions - moments of glory Helmut Lotti - tribute to the king & pop symphony The film music of Jerry Goldsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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