The Hottest 100 won't be held on Australia Day next year

[Two Flies]

46 minutes ago, Noum said:

Probably that the earth is older than 6000 years  

Ya reckon ?  Yes Heyzeus loves me Yes Heyzeus loves me

[jutta]

Why do we continually keep conforming to the minority.....?
Sometimes it’s right but more often it’s just ridiculous political correctness...

[ThirdDrawerDown]

In this case? Gross injustice and near-genocide are part of your answer.

[Darren69]

11 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Damn that climate change stuff!

 

You're saying that it was happening BEFORE man even got here?

 

By goodness!.............what will they tell us next!?

 

edit - I now have Tabasco Sauce all over my arm in my earnestness to type that!

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2013/05/opinion-what-killed-australias-megafauna

 

I always assumed the practice by the Aboriginals of sticking a match in the bush wiped the bigguns out. Interesting.

 

Anyhoo, I voted 'don't care' as I don't care, haha (Hottest 100).

 

Re- Australia Day, I know I am lucky to live where I do, I don't spend my whole life fighting over a strip of rocks, I keep getting money even when I am sick and can't go to work to pay my house off, I can mostly say what I want without disappearing and I wont get killed by a government backed drug vigilante mob if I annoy the neighbour with some loud music. When my daughter had problems giving birth to my Grandson, straight on a plane to Brisbane and completely cared for, without ever paying a cent. You'd lose your house in other countries. I think that's what Australia Day is about. When Australia Day is held, I couldn't care less I couldn't care less if it wasn't held again if it made others happy for five minutes.

 

As some here have said, I remember when it wasn't a big deal, I remember not knowing if it was Australia Day or the Queens birthday, haha, just a day off. Again I think all these things are getting over done, blown out, agendas attached and commercialised, along with ANZAC day and so on.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Darren69

[Two Flies]

10 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

In this case? Gross injustice and near-genocide are part of your answer.

What I find difficult to understand is the people with attitudes like " it happened 241 years ago "now just move on".

 

 World war I ended in 1918 we still commemorate the ending of that twice a year on ANZAC day and Armistice day nearly one hundred years later. Few if any (me included) would suggest we don't commemorate that or sweep that one under the carpet or say to the family's of those that fought in that war it's over " now just move on".

 

Relatively speaking the colonisation of Australia was to have the same impact on the Aboriginal people, they were hunted down and killed for crime of defending their own land and resisting settlement,  dispossessed of their land followed up by a ruthless and systematic campaign to move them on to mission's or  imprisonment as punishment for resisting the attempt to wipe out their culture.

 

Then to add insult to injury when they have the audacity (   had the audacity) to ask for a simple symbolic gesture that would have a significant impact in the spirit of reconciliation, we'd like like to celebrate Australia day on another day,  some still want to rub salt in to the wounds that have never healed by saying "just move on".

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by MC240

[Darren69]

Most people I know acknowledge what happened and believe it to be so.

 

Re write history? I don't know what that means as there is no one singular reference point for history and history, well it is just that, in the past with 'accurate history' pretty much an oxymoron. But I think the vast majority of current Australians believe and acknowledge what went on.

 

Or is it re word history?

 

So are we saying there should be a second apology? An apology for our existence here? a formal recognition of the genocide that occurred during 'settlement' (which was at best a very ad-hoc process of squatting and fighting). Would such an apology suggest everything would still be the same, a quarantined land of scattered tribes and nomadic peoples with over 300 languages? If we had never come, then no one else would have? Asia wouldn't have come? The Dutch and the French had been eyeing off the great south land for a long time, it was almost a race.

 

Should the Aboriginal people be indefinitely treated like victims by the greater society? Is this healthy?

 

I think these questions are what are sitting in the back of peoples minds when they use the 'get over it and move on' angle, along with whatever happened to our own forebears in their own countries or even after they settled here. We can all go back 100's of years and find nasty stuff happening to our forebears I imagine, nasty stuff was the go until recently.

 

To flip things around, what future exists for the Aboriginal people if the Aboriginal people don't move on?

Edited December 9, 2017 by Darren69

[Darren69]

1 minute ago, Darren69 said:

Duplicate

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Darren69

[Rob181]

10 hours ago, ThirdDrawerDown said:

In this case? Gross injustice and near-genocide are part of your answer.

Happened in nearly every country in the world since the dawn of time...

Agree with Daz...it is time to park it & move on...

There are a LOT more important matters the Aboriginals need to resolve...

Within their own communities...

[Ancientflatulence]

Damn ....... I can only like that post once @Darren69 .......

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

Please, stop acting like this all happened hundreds of years ago.

The first peoples/Aboriginals/indigenous Australians were given status as citizens (actually, as people) in 1967. The last of these people to be told that their land now belonged to someone else - that was 1982. There are Queensland aboriginals alive today who are still owed wages for hard labour that were paid to the Government, instead.

 

These things happened in the lifetimes of most of the members of these forums. Some were alive during the period of the "stolen generations".

 

And it seems the best that the Australian government can do today is turn paid jobs into work for the dole schemes.

 

No, it isn't just history. It's today. I agree that Aboriginal communities face issues that they will have to solve for themselves, as well. But "just move on" isn't any sort of answer from the wider community.

[Darren69]

http://www.australia.gov.au/about-government/government-and-parliament/indigenous-policy-and-programs

 

plus no end of state funded initiatives scattered throughout all of their departments.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Darren69

[crisis]

16 hours ago, Darren69 said:

 

I was reciting this as I walked into work last week.

[Rob181]

10 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

No, it isn't just history.

If it happened yesterday...its history....

My wife lost her 7 year battle with cancer on January 12...

Should all birthdays hence forth be celebrated on another day...

No...it would be the wish of a minority imposed on the majority...

And that is exactly what is happening here...

[Two Flies]

2 hours ago, Darren69 said:

Most people I know acknowledge what happened and believe it to be so.

 

Re write history? I don't know what that means as there is no one singular reference point for history and history, well it is just that, in the past with 'accurate history' pretty much an oxymoron. But I think the vast majority of current Australians believe and acknowledge what went on.

 

Or is it re word history?

 

So are we saying there should be a second apology? An apology for our existence here? a formal recognition of the genocide that occurred during 'settlement' (which was at best a very ad-hoc process of squatting and fighting). Would such an apology suggest everything would still be the same, a quarantined land of scattered tribes and nomadic peoples with over 300 languages? If we had never come, then no one else would have? Asia wouldn't have come? The Dutch and the French had been eyeing off the great south land for a long time, it was almost a race.

 

Should the Aboriginal people be indefinitely treated like victims by the greater society? Is this healthy?

 

I think these questions are what are sitting in the back of peoples minds when they use the 'get over it and move on' angle, along with whatever happened to our own forebears in their own countries or even after they settled here. We can all go back 100's of years and find nasty stuff happening to our forebears I imagine, nasty stuff was the go until recently.

 

To flip things around, what future exists for the Aboriginal people if the Aboriginal people don't move on?

You raise a lot very good point's there Daz. Agreed most people do recognise andacknowledge pasted in justices. As for a second apology or to have keep apologising with thecurrent generation to feel guilty or shame about what has happened in the past I don't suggest that we should.

 

Should Aboriginal people keep identifying as victims it's not helpful to them in the long run,  but the fact is they were, have been and in some cases still are.

 

As for the if the English hadn't done it the Asians or the Dutch would have, it make no difference the result would have been similar and the point would remain the same. Because they would have,  line of reasoning doesn't float with me we'd just be Dutch or Asians having the same conversation.

 

Like I said in a previous post do we say to the family's of ww1, or solders that fought in ww2 or to returned solders of Vietnam who had red paint thrown over them, "just move on,  is the any if at all suggestion we not commemorate Anzac day,  then why should it be so different to recognise the Aboriginal people by granting their request to simply move the Australia day celebrations to another day, in scheme of things is it that such a big ask I'm men really is that such a big ask in view of what they've endured ?

Edited December 10, 2017 by MC240

[Two Flies]

45 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

Happened in nearly every country in the world since the dawn of time...

Agree with Daz...it is time to park it & move on...

There are a LOT more important matters the Aboriginals need to resolve...

Within their own communities...

So what ?

  Why is it so that it's not just time to park on the celebration of Australia day it happened 241 years ago so lets just move on,  there are a lot more important things in Australian society as a whole than to spend a fortune on celebrating not to mention the lost production of the entire work force for one day celebrating the arrival of the English ? Just saying

[Two Flies]

42 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

http://www.australia.gov.au/about-government/government-and-parliament/indigenous-policy-and-programs

 

plus no end of state funded initiatives scattered throughout all of their departments.

What about the Aboriginal people who were once free to live within there own community's on their traditional lands,  who are now for the most part renters in their own country.

Edited December 10, 2017 by MC240

[Rob181]

2 minutes ago, MC240 said:

What about the Aboriginal people who were once free to live within there own community's on their traditional lands,  who are no for the most part renters in their own country

What about Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Monguls, English...the list goes on...

And on...and on...and on...

13 minutes ago, MC240 said:

Why is it so that it's not just time to park on the celebration of Australia day

OK...park NAIDOC week...Xmas....Easter...Queens birthday...Melbourne Cup day...

Or any other public holiday if a waste of money & lost production are the justification...

[crisis]

1 hour ago, Darren69 said:

Most people I know acknowledge what happened and believe it to be so.

Until I attended a course with an Aboriginal Woman last year I would have agreed. I though I knew all about how Aboriginals had been treated. What I knew was the white mans politically correct/acceptable version.

Her family (she is about my age) lived in a camp in the South East and were not considered as people. If you wanted to get away you had to show you were "civilised". Her mother kept their "house" very tidy and especially so for the "inspections". She did such a good job Her family were given a "non Aboriginal" status. This mean that they could live in white society. There were still restrictions. Her father got a job and was allowed to work with white people but not socialise with them. If they wanted to visit their family back at the camp (I now understand that Aboriginal people think of "family" differently to us) they had to go to an office in the city and apply for a pass. It was pretty much up to the whim of the public servant on duty. They were refused on one occasion and her father decided to take them to the camp anyway. When it was discovered they had gone back to the camp and visited their family without permission he was sent to goal. This all happened about 50 years or so ago.

I didn't know about any of this.

She often felt uneasy when visiting different places in the city because she remembers what they were in her childhood and the bad memories they recalled.

This course introduced me to the concept of "white privilege". It is not an easy concept to accept and many white people in these course have strong reactions to it. She explained that everywhere she goes she is black first. That is what we see. I cant deny that. She said she had throughout her life only felt "sexual discrimination" a couple of times. She said she actually felt good about it. Because white people thought of her as black first and a woman sometime later. She said she feels discriminated against every day.

Eddie Betts wife mentioned something that made me very sad after he had a banana peel thrown at him on the field. She said he wasn't that upset because he was "used to it".

There is a whole lot more I learnt (at 53 years of age) that I didn't know in those sessions I attended.

I don't think most white Australians have any idea really.

 

Quote

So are we saying there should be a second apology? An apology for our existence here? a formal recognition of the genocide that occurred during 'settlement' (which was at best a very ad-hoc process of squatting and fighting).

Why did the first apology take so long? I was fairly cynical about what it would achieve but I was the wrong person to ask. No one was apologising to me. It made some people feel better. No big deal maybe but certainly not such a big deal to refuse for so long.

Quote

Should the Aboriginal people be indefinitely treated like victims by the greater society? Is this healthy?

Good point.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-27/pholiaboriginality/4281772

 

 

Quote

I think these questions are what are sitting in the back of peoples minds when they use the 'get over it and move on' angle, along with whatever happened to our own forebears in their own countries or even after they settled here. We can all go back 100's of years and find nasty stuff happening to our forebears I imagine, nasty stuff was the go until recently.

 

To flip things around, what future exists for the Aboriginal people if the Aboriginal people don't move on?

I agree about moving on. We no longer hate Germans and Japanese (well apart from the "Hansonites"). Most of us have "moved on". My wife's grandmother hadn't up to the day she died though. Her husband was on the Burma Railway and was tortured by the Japanese soldiers. She never forgave the whole country and every Japanese person. I guess she never got her apology or whatever it was she needed in order to "move on". Perhaps we are still missing something as well?

Edited December 10, 2017 by crisis

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

33 minutes ago, Darren69 said:

http://www.australia.gov.au/about-government/government-and-parliament/indigenous-policy-and-programs

 

plus no end of state funded initiatives scattered throughout all of their departments.

Surprisingly, this works just like audio. The figures suggest that few of these schemes are working, but we can all look at the shiny documents and feel good about ourselves.

I note from one of the linked sites:

Quote

Being employed improves the health, living standards and the social and emotional well-being of individuals, families and communities. Employment not only brings financial independence and choice, it also contributes to self-esteem. We develop and manage Indigenous employment policy and programmes.

So why did the government turn remote community jobs into work for the dole schemes? To reduce the health, living standards, etc?

 

20 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

If it happened yesterday...its history....

My wife lost her 7 year battle with cancer on January 12...

Should all birthdays hence forth be celebrated on another day...

No...it would be the wish of a minority imposed on the majority...

And that is exactly what is happening here...

I am of course sorry to hear of the loss of your wife. It's not just history though, you wake up and feel that loss every morning.

 

I'm finding it hard to cope with replying to this because it's so personal to you.

 

It comes down to one of the weaknesses of democracy. We can turn it around and ask about the (apparent) wish of a majority that hurts a minority, which is the current situation.

 

And, as it happens, I haven't yet expressed my opinion on Australia Day itself. I'm trying to argue the wider point here.

[Rob181]

2 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

I am of course sorry to hear of the loss of your wife. It's not just history though, you wake up and feel that loss every morning.

Thanks for the kind words...but the truth is watching someone slowly die for 7 years was the hard part...

Especially the last 7 months...her death was a relief to all...and it was almost 13 years ago now...

5 minutes ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

majority that hurts a minority

My questions is...how many of the minority does this actually hurt...

In days of yore...when  I lived in Mt Isa & Townsville...I had a lot of Aboriginal friends...

And I would just ask them for their honest opinion...my gut feel tells me I know what they would say...

But without actually asking "the average Aborigine" what they think it would only be conjecture...

[allthumbs]

If  the idea that the majority is the arbiter, then the answer is simple.  The majority of listeners that responded to the Triple J poll (and let's face it the opinion poll of very recent past has gained a whole lot of authority in regards to how policy is determined) wished for the "hottest 100" to be moved to another date. End of story.

 

Move on.

 

Let rip the mitigating arguments.

 

Complexity is a bugger isn't it?

 

 

[sir sanders zingmore]

38 minutes ago, MC240 said:

So what ?

  Why is it so that it's not just time to park on the celebration of Australia day it happened 241 years ago so lets just move on,  there are a lot more important things in Australian society as a whole than to spend a fortune on celebrating not to mention the lost production of the entire work force for one day celebrating the arrival of the English ? Just saying

That's a good point. The arrival of the first fleet didn't happen in my lifetime - I have no right to celebrate it

Same with ANZAC cove, no-one I know was involved - in fact there is no-one alive anymore who was involved. why should we commemorate it?

 

If we can justify chucking out the bad bits of our history because we weren't directly responsible, then by the same argument we have no right to celebrate the good bits

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Sir Sanders Zingmore

[joz]

We could scrap it all together and we could have a national horse race, then we still get to keep the day off!

Why should Melb get all the fun.

[Two Flies]

48 minutes ago, Rob181 said:

What about Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Monguls, English...the list goes on...

And on...and on...and on...

 

I'm talking about simply moving Australia day out of respect and in accordance with many Aboriginal peoples request for me I don't see this as a difficult thing to do but accept that your point view may vary,  anything else is side issue the above you mentioned are significant within themselves and undeniably tragic but have nothing to do with moving Australia day to another date.

[Two Flies]

37 minutes ago, joz said:

We could scrap it all together and we could have a national horse race, then we still get to keep the day off!

Why should Melb get all the fun.

Thank you for your levity  Hey Joz