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bleeding_ears

A system to thump me in the chest

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I'm just starting preliminary investigations.

Building and kitting out a new house so looking to buy a full setup next year from scratch.

Budget up to $40k (doesn't mean I have to spend that much!)

Background: used to do some amateur DJing in dance clubs when I was a youngster, so still partial to a lot of electronic and house music, although not exclusively so. What it has left me with (apart from the odd bout of tinnitus....) is a real desire to feel the music I listen to. I love to feel a tight drum beat thumping me in the chest. That said I don't want the bass to be overblown or flabby.

I'm a bit of a minimalist so looking more towards integrated solutions rather than a stack of boxes. I'm exclusively streaming/hard drive based, so no other inputs required.

Some ideas so far:

 

Dynaudio c4s + Devialet 220

Triangle Magellan Cello SW2 + PS Audio directstream DAC + Naim Supernait 2

 

or maybe just a couple of Devialet Phantom Silvers......

 

Any suggestions/advice gladly received.  

Edited by bleeding_ears

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My advice is to focus on a level of performance; don't focus on what gear you're going to acquire.

To get that chest thump, I think you're going to need a well integrated sub-woofer or two or four.

 

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CX4F MkII actives from forum sponsor SGR? I'm sure they could help you out with the source side of things as well.

 

If I was starting from scratch that's where I'd be heading...

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Room size is very relevant, as well as whether it is purely for music or you want to handle surround sound for movies too.

Phantoms sound like a good idea, but having heard both I'd go with the Gold, not Silver - they go deeper and really have more thump.

 

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Subs and or big diameter drivers.
C4s go deep and sound great but don't hit you like concert type speakers.

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Thanks for the replies.

 

Room size - 20 sqr metres

 

Just for music. AV will be separate.

 

Don't really like the thought of subs. I'll save that for the AV setup.

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Some will not agree with this as you may be aiming for higher fidelity, but the obvious answer to your question and seeing that you come from a DJ'ing background - is to get a brand new piano gloss pair of Bose 901 Series VI loudspeakers, about $4K RRP. Use and enjoy the volume control with the most powerful amplifier (200w/ch or more within your designated budget).  You have a medium sized room and the 901 will fit in nicely aesthetically, while giving you gut-wrenchingly powerful bass.

 

A lot of audiophiles poo-hah the 901, but I am not in that camp. They sound balanced from top-to-bottom and have superb macro dynamics (go loud without compression) that few normal sized speakers can keep up with. They scale upwards with ease from hard rock to orchestral crescendos where the omni-directional effects of the speaker come into play nicely to produce a huge soundstage.

 

Here's a fair and balanced view of the Bose 901 from a respected audiophile publication ...

 

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/

 

Regards,

 

Steve.

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1 hour ago, bleeding_ears said:

Don't really like the thought of subs.

"I love to feel a tight drum beat thumping me in the chest." <--- Being put at huge risk. :fear:

 

 

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The chest thump is more lower mid than sub bass. Subs aren't required to get the kick/slam your after. Audition, audition, audition are my 3 words for you.

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Thanks Steve, I will bare that in mind. I just want to come up with a shortlist so that I can arrange some demos in the new year. I live in regional NSW so that will mean a trip down to Sydney.

 

3 minutes ago, Satanica said:

"I love to feel a tight drum beat thumping me in the chest." <--- Being put at huge risk. :fear:

 

 

Maybe so, but I guess it depends how hard I want to be thumped!

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2 minutes ago, bleeding_ears said:

Maybe so, but I guess it depends how hard I want to be thumped!

How much?

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13 minutes ago, Steve M said:

Some will not agree with this as you may be aiming for higher fidelity, but the obvious answer to your question and seeing that you come from a DJ'ing background - is to get a brand new piano gloss pair of Bose 901 Series VI loudspeakers, about $4K RRP. Use and enjoy the volume control with the most powerful amplifier (200w/ch or more within your designated budget).  You have a medium sized room and the 901 will fit in nicely aesthetically, while giving you gut-wrenchingly powerful bass.

 

A lot of audiophiles poo-hah the 901, but I am not in that camp. They sound balanced from top-to-bottom and have superb macro dynamics (go loud without compression) that few normal sized speakers can keep up with. They scale upwards with ease from hard rock to orchestral crescendos where the omni-directional effects of the speaker come into play nicely to produce a huge soundstage.

 

Here's a fair and balanced view of the Bose 901 from a respected audiophile publication ...

 

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/

 

Regards,

 

Steve.

The 901 is incredibly room dependent and I've not heard a set produce the wavefront that hits you in the chest, though they do go down there. There are a surprising number of speakers that are like that. I may be wrong but I wouldn't count them as reliable for this particular job.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Upfront said:

The chest thump is more lower mid than sub bass. Subs aren't required to get the kick/slam your after. Audition, audition, audition are my 3 words for you.

I agree on the need to audition. I just want some ideas. Because I'm not a metro resident I need to plan in advance.

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two systems with bass thump and I mean whump! Unfortunately DIY

Linkwitz active four way

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm

yes, they look weird but there's definite reasons why, expensive to build ($4k alone in drivers) and to run as you need four channels per side as they're active four ways and you need a dsp digital crossover as well. Mate of mine built a pair and the bass slam is extraordinary! The dual open baffle bass drivers per side sure help!

 

Nelson Pass slot loaded bass

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0911/slot_loaded_open_baffle_speaker.htm

basically the principle behind these is a pair (or more) of woofers firing at each other and exiting through a slot one third the area of their combined piston area. Mate built a pair using just two 15 inch Eminence guitar drivers per side powered by a cheap Behringer iNuke NU1000 (a mere 500w per side!) to up the bass slam on his 3 way speakers. Extraordinay, flat to 20Hz!

back in the real world a more compact system, maybe these micro monitors and sub woofer are worth a look, based in Sydney

http://www.microphaseaudiodesign.com/

< AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND
Microphase Audio Design - Sydney - Australia
Please call Jean-Marie LIERE on +61 (0) 40 41 07042 to make an appointment
or email; [email protected] >

 

regards Ian

 

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Lot's of good leads, good that you are not worried about a bit of tinitus. Disappointing to see people selling their gear because of that, bit like selling your coffee machine because of a heat pulpitations.:)

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I remember demoing back in the 90's an 18" Velodyne F series sub.

The guy put his music on and I ran out the room with heart palpitation.

Edited by Wimbo

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46 minutes ago, Upfront said:

The chest thump is more lower mid than sub bass. Subs aren't required to get the kick/slam your after. Audition, audition, audition are my 3 words for you.

It depends on what is doing the thumping, but I'm told 90-150 Hz would be the range for a kick drum or an acoustic instrument hit, lower for bass synth thumps. Take your pick.

On the VERY rare occasions I've had my setup running loud enough, I've certainly felt the bass from my Osborns, but even then it's not quite that thump you are looking for. It may be the room or the amp of course. But the Celestion DL8 standmounts I had back in the '90s, with not much low bass, could do the thump in the chest stuff from a single 8 inch speaker per side. Upfront is pretty much right.

 

In this case with modern tech I'd go for an active system for this particular trick with digital EQ so you can turn that feel on and (part way) off, dependent on the music being played. A great system will expand your musical taste but you will want to be more neutral with some of that new music. The active Legend Big Reds would be my suggestion here (should be simple enough as well), though there are plenty of other brands to choose from. SGR have already been mentioned.

 

If you had a bigger room I'd suggest Osborn Monuments - they can do the low end slam without subs as well. I'm not so sure for that room size.

 

Edit - a sadist with some drum sticks would be a lot cheaper and you'd definitely feel it then.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Eggcup The Daft

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Genelec 8260A or 8351

Digital in is all these need, volume control, amps and DAC are all internal, remote volume control is available.

As a bonus the Genelec room correction system is great.

With these the user can easily alter the sound to suit their own requirements.

The Hi Fi types can pull the mids and uppers forward - the same can happen in reverse.

Acoustic room treatments are great but not always feasible - the Genelec system alleviates most of need for treatments.

Both of these speakers (and a raft of other pro gear) have real bass, tight solid and engaging - unless your room sucks bass these should be all you need.

 

Much as I loath separate subs the Genelec system integrates them perfectly - dont think you will need them though.

I strongly encourage you to seek out a pair of these Genelecs for a good audition.

For most people the downside is you will never look at Hi Fi gear in the same way again.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Eggcup The Daft said:

The 901 is incredibly room dependent and I've not heard a set produce the wavefront that hits you in the chest, though they do go down there. There are a surprising number of speakers that are like that. I may be wrong but I wouldn't count them as reliable for this particular job.

 

 

 

You just haven't been to enough Discos and Nightclubs, Eggy. :P  So, you've never heard a pair of Bose 802 (commercial version of the 901) thumping away and hitting you in the chest on the dance floor?? They do the mid-bass punch thing big time, the higher the volume level gets the more enjoyable the Bose get!

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So BOSE are on the list Steve?

 

I loved my big old Studiocraft 1000's for decades, they did it all It was only in 2013 when they died that I started down this hi fi rabbit hole. I purchased them in 1987.

 

What about some big floorstanding JBL's?

 

In my experience, not a lot of Audiophile type products can handle the loud you are thinking of, for too long. I assume you are thinking of 110dB plus for extended amounts of time? With no subs, you'll need some pretty special two channel hi fi speakers to deliver that, I cant think of any off the top of my head. Thought about good quality DJ stuff like you used to have?

 

Thinking out aloud, the Krix modular home theatre system was also pretty amazing at the hi fi show. Shook the walls.

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Bleeding_Ears raises a good point by starting this thread, I agree with him that the world needs a highly competent moderately priced threeway loudspeaker, with chest thumping ability. Our choices are limited these days when it comes to this type of speaker.  The loudspeaker scene became somewhat politically correct in the 1990s, when manufacturers went to slim profile speakers with multiple smaller bass drivers (8 inches or less) ...in response to trying to achieve domestic harmony. It all started with the Mission 753 which was a good speaker and did everything well, but it still did not replicate the slam of larger boxes and larger bass drivers found in the IMF TLS-80, Celestion 66, Yamaha NS1000, JBLs, Cerwin Vega and Genesis speakers at the time. The magazine reviewers convinced us that smaller was better (in terms of speed and accuracy), but somehow I don't think so? There is nothing quite like a 10, 12 or 15 inch driver in full flight in a larger box - you get the impression of a percussive whack on drum strikes that more replicates a true drum-kit, that a smaller driver or smaller box just fudges ...physics at play I guess.

 

Anyway I digress, and in terms of experience with modern loudspeakers that kick hard in the bass accurately that I have heard recently, I would include the SGR MT3a, Magico S5 & S7 sealed bass; Jones's Gryphon Pendragons, the Yamaha NS-5000 and Tax's and Alistair's Avantgarde 10" active bass ...all quite expensive though depending on your pay scale.

 

Steve. 

Edited by Steve M

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For $40k id expect a pair of speakers to be able to liquefy my organs. My search for loud but clean sounding speakers ended when I picked up my JBL 4435's which are designed to hapilly play at 120db all day every day. Best thing is they only cost me $5.5k

Screen Shot 2017-08-20 at 3.27.31 pm.png

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Yep JBL 4435, that'll do it easy but in a 20m2 (4mx5m) room space will be tight! 

 

 

dsc00218.jpg

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