In a pickle no longer, but would like some advice please

[Mike13]

Update: I bought the Rel’s. They sounded great with paradigm SEs but I must be doing something wrong because anything more than one or two clicks on the knob and there’s too much bass (and I like a lot of it).

 

I then spent ages deciding which Osborn to get, settled on the Epitomes and bought a consonance 15 anniversary while thinking about finish. I was surprised how much difference it made.

 

Then I saw a Hulgich Astor ad and showed it to my wife. She thought they looked more modern. I went to have a listen and they were really good. Close enough to Osborn’s that I couldn’t tell much difference.

 

So I got those and the centre, which is a bit big for my room. My wife wasn’t expecting the $3k extra so was a bit shocked.

 

One big car load later and they’re set up. They sound really good.

 

Marc suggested stuffing the ports and lowering the subwoofer crossover.

 

I’d like to set them up properly - would anyone here in Melbourne be happy to come and show me how to do it or should I be going for a professional?

 

 

 

[att23]

I cannot answer your question, not an expert, and I’m not based in Melbourne, but I couldn’t help but noticed that your room has some harsh surfaces, such as glass and concrete floor, no soft furnishing like carpet, rug, sofa, cushion, curtain etc. IMHO may not be the best acoustic environment.  

 

Then you also have potentially clutter the sound paths with furniture or another speaker in front or immediate side of your main speakers and the sub? Or is that the angle of the photo taken?

 

Forgive me not meant to be picking on your photo.  I just like following the textbook rules to improve room acoustics with soft furnishings and very meticulous with placing of my speakers, clear path etc...  I am guessing you have yet to set up and rearrange your room later.  Just thinking it will be harder to achieve the best sound from your gear in current room situation with sound waves bouncing off many harsh surfaces nearby.

Edited November 17, 2017 by att23

[Al.M]

If the sub has a phase switch try both settings to be in phase with the speakers. You will need to set the sub level so that it sounds right at the seat position - should not be set too high and not dominate the speakers, just subtle enough to enhance the bass, adjust freq to say around 40-50hz, try different sub positions.

 

Main speakers angled in towards seated position, 50cm from back wall and 50-100cm from side wall. The furniture on left is in the way of sound projection and place rugs on floor if what is there is not so. Create the recommended equilateral stereo triangle, see online online for what this means, and head seated at tweeter level sweetspot

 

Play with AV amp settings to sound best such as set to 3.1 speakers, simple TV audio etc instead of the multiple fancier settings, adjust speaker treble and bass to suit. It should all sound detailed, punchy with low rumble to enjoy movies and music, clear voices etc and not all thick and lumpy.

 

Not all subs will sound good with all speakers and it can take experimentation between different models and designs to find better matching. Your main speakers specs say down to 25hz although not stating at what +/- dB level, but from the size of 10 inch woofer in the large ported cabinet it would probably be quite bassy so the subs would need to output a lot of even lower or equal bass to make a difference. The 25hz speaker spec is more likely at around -10dB so in reality 35-40hz at +/- 0 dB if it means anything at all because the AV amp main speaker to sub freq cutoff will be around 80hz. The Rels appear to be sealed cabinet design and the main speakers ported design and it would be interesting to see if the subs are able to make big difference and are in fact a good match.

 

Otherwise the room and equipment generally looks good, nice main speakers. Looks like they may be using the Scanspeak D2608 tweeter, highly well reviewed sweet and detailed unit also used by Lenehan etc. Woofer and mid drivers may be  Scanspeaks or SB units. At around $11k rrp good value as other overseas makes for the same might be around $20k+

 

.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Al.M

[Wimbo]

First off I'd take everything out of the room thats not needed. You seem to have a lot of kit in there.

Then I'd get some nice heavy drapes and cover those windows.

When I see what looks to be the beginning of a really good Stereo system with a big screen on the wall behind it, I sigh.

But, if you can't get around that, you have to live with it.

[Tony ray]

Great buy Mike, truly awesome setup now

[Mike13]

14 hours ago, att23 said:

Forgive me not meant to be picking on your photo.  I just like following the textbook rules to improve room acoustics with soft furnishings and very meticulous with placing of my speakers, clear path etc...  

Thanks att. In my other thread everyone echoes your advice. There is carpet, couches and cushions behind the matts, but the glass is my big problem that I can’t remedy.

 

I can see where my wife is coming from - it does seem to be a strange idea to put curtains there for sound. What with giant speakers and kids stuff our lounge room is not what it used to be.

 

That’s why I was thinking about seeing if professional room treatment and equalisation could help. Some think not. 

[Mike13]

1 hour ago, Tony ray said:

Great buy Mike, truly awesome setup now

Thanks Tony. I will finally be able to spend more time listening to HiFi than reading about it!

[Mike13]

3 hours ago, Wimbo said:

First off I'd take everything out of the room thats not needed. You seem to have a lot of kit in there.

Then I'd get some nice heavy drapes and cover those windows.

When I see what looks to be the beginning of a really good Stereo system with a big screen on the wall behind it, I sigh.

But, if you can't get around that, you have to live with it.

Good point. The old speakers were going to go somewhere else and I may love the white box and toy kitchen too.

 

What’s wrong with a screen. If you’ve got anything better than in-built TV speakers why not use them I say. 

[Kaynin]

13 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

What’s wrong with a screen. If you’ve got anything better than in-built TV speakers why not use them I say. 

 

He's likely talking about one of two points.  Either stick with a 2 channel set-up...or the impact a screen in the middle of speakers can have on the acoustical result.

[Mike13]

13 hours ago, Al.M said:

If the sub has a phase switch try both settings to be in phase with the speakers. You will need to set the sub level so that it sounds right at the seat position - should not be set too high and not dominate the speakers, just subtle enough to enhance the bass, adjust freq to say around 40-50hz, try different sub positions.

 

Main speakers angled in towards seated position, 50cm from back wall and 50-100cm from side wall. The furniture on left is in the way of sound projection and place rugs on floor if what is there is not so. Create the recommended equilateral stereo triangle, see online online for what this means, and head seated at tweeter level sweetspot

 

Play with AV amp settings to sound best such as set to 3.1 speakers, simple TV audio etc instead of the multiple fancier settings, adjust speaker treble and bass to suit. It should all sound detailed, punchy with low rumble to enjoy movies and music, clear voices etc and not all thick and lumpy.

 

Not all subs will sound good with all speakers and it can take experimentation between different models and designs to find better matching. Your main speakers specs say down to 28hz although not stating at what +/- dB level, but from the size of 10 inch woofer in the large ported cabinet it would probably be quite bassy so the subs would need to output a lot of even lower or equal bass to make a difference. The 25hz speaker spec is more likely at around -10dB so in reality 35-40hz at +/- 0 dB if it means anything at all because the AV amp main speaker to sub freq cutoff will be around 80hz. The Rels appear to be sealed cabinet design and the main speakers ported design and it would be interesting to see if the subs are able to make big difference and are in fact a good match.

 

Otherwise the room and equipment generally looks good, nice main speakers. Looks like they may be using the Scanspeak D2608 tweeter, highly well reviewed sweet and detailed unit also used by Lenehan etc. Woofer and mid drivers may be  Scanspeaks or SB units. At around $11k rrp good value as other overseas makes for the same might be around $20k+

 

.

 

 

Thanks AI.M lots of good advice here. I’ll first do the 50-100 cm measurement properly and look at the triangle (my couch is probably too far back).

 

Good to hear re value for money. I know the Osbornes have more expensive drivers (prob at least double in the reference) but this ones suits our longe better.

 

Mains to 28kz and subs to 26kz. Hopefully will work.

 

i just had a thought of putting the old floorstanders and surrounds. I wonder how that will go down. 

[Mike13]

13 hours ago, Al.M said:

If the sub has a phase switch try both settings to be in phase with the speakers. You will need to set the sub level so that it sounds right at the seat position - should not be set too high and not dominate the speakers, just subtle enough to enhance the bass, adjust freq to say around 40-50hz, try different sub positions.

 

Main speakers angled in towards seated position, 50cm from back wall and 50-100cm from side wall. The furniture on left is in the way of sound projection and place rugs on floor if what is there is not so. Create the recommended equilateral stereo triangle, see online online for what this means, and head seated at tweeter level sweetspot

 

Play with AV amp settings to sound best such as set to 3.1 speakers, simple TV audio etc instead of the multiple fancier settings, adjust speaker treble and bass to suit. It should all sound detailed, punchy with low rumble to enjoy movies and music, clear voices etc and not all thick and lumpy.

 

Not all subs will sound good with all speakers and it can take experimentation between different models and designs to find better matching. Your main speakers specs say down to 28hz although not stating at what +/- dB level, but from the size of 10 inch woofer in the large ported cabinet it would probably be quite bassy so the subs would need to output a lot of even lower or equal bass to make a difference. The 25hz speaker spec is more likely at around -10dB so in reality 35-40hz at +/- 0 dB if it means anything at all because the AV amp main speaker to sub freq cutoff will be around 80hz. The Rels appear to be sealed cabinet design and the main speakers ported design and it would be interesting to see if the subs are able to make big difference and are in fact a good match.

 

Otherwise the room and equipment generally looks good, nice main speakers. Looks like they may be using the Scanspeak D2608 tweeter, highly well reviewed sweet and detailed unit also used by Lenehan etc. Woofer and mid drivers may be  Scanspeaks or SB units. At around $11k rrp good value as other overseas makes for the same might be around $20k+

 

.

 

 

Thanks AI.M lots of good advice here. I’ll first do the 50-100 cm measurement properly and look at the triangle (my couch is probably too far back).

 

Good to hear re value for money. I know the Osbornes have more expensive drivers (prob at least double in the reference) but this ones suits our longe better.

 

Mains to 28kz and subs to 26kz. Hopefully will work.

 

i just had a thought of putting the old floorstanders and surrounds. I wonder how that will go down. 

[Tony ray]

The Hulgichs have quality drivers irrespective of price its how they perform. They also look awesome and reading the reports of the HiFi show you have a great speaker which would be hard to beat without spending a lot more. Can you show us a piccie of the centre speaker.

[Mike13]

3 hours ago, Kaynin said:

 

He's likely talking about one of two points.  Either stick with a 2 channel set-up...or the impact a screen in the middle of speakers can have on the acoustical result.

An of course. More glass. 

[Mike13]

1 hour ago, Tony ray said:

The Hulgichs have quality drivers irrespective of price its how they perform. They also look awesome and reading the reports of the HiFi show you have a great speaker which would be hard to beat without spending a lot more. Can you show us a piccie of the centre speaker.

Yes that sounds right, otherwise more people would buy expensive drivers and put them in a ready made box.

 

I didn’t know they showed the Astors  at the show. I heard the white bookshelves there and they were good.

 

These big ones have great bass. The first song on Pink Floyd’s new album 40 seconds in had a massive bass impact. Wide soundstage (I can’t hear the depth yet). With classical it’s easy to pick out all the instruments. The thing I like most is how clear all the words are in any song. As clear or moreso than my Noble k10s.  

 

Centre pic below (also in the first pic). It’s a big speaker. I hadn’t taken the cover off yet so here is the first look under the grill. Looks like two mids, smaller mid and tweeter. There is a slight angle backwards. Very stylish and modern. Don’t know if my Marantz AV will do it justice. I only heard it before I bought it so I’ll try it tonight with a movie.

 

 

 

 

[Kaynin]

12 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

 

I didn’t know they showed the Astors  at the show.   Right you are, they had the Ella's on show, no Astor's.

 

Don’t know if my Marantz AV will do it justice.  Likely the answer is no if the Marantz is running all speakers, but if you're running the mains with your Consonance and the rest off the Marantz then it's going to give it a decent nudge.

 

 

[Steam]

@Mike13 as a simple place to start:

 

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php

 

lots of other useful basic info on that site.

[Mike13]

1 hour ago, Kaynin said:

 

Thanks Kaynin. Will report back. The movie for tonight is Boy. I somehow don't think this will give the centre+subs a good test but we will see.

[Mike13]

27 minutes ago, Steam said:

@Mike13 as a simple place to start:

 

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php

 

lots of other useful basic info on that site.

Well that was simple. Although it wants it further from the back wall than I was expecting and what @Al.M was suggesting. Will try both.

 

I have the speakers on 20 cent coins at the moment. Can anyone suggest ones that help you move the speakers easily? Marc had little white cups but couldn't remember where they were from.

 

One of These days by Pink Floyd is sounding good at high volume

[Mike13]

@Kaynin Marantz did fine. Centre sounded great, subs worked well. My wife thought it was the floorstanders on. 

 

The movie I was supposed to get was Boyhood, not Boy. So we watched Wind River instaed, which turned out to be a great movie with a Nick Cave, Warren Ellis soundtrack. 

[Mike13]

D

Edited November 18, 2017 by Mike13
Duplicate

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

Looks like you've negotiated the hurdles you can, well. I see you mentioned professional room treatment, you'd do well to investigate it at least in that space.

No lectures from me about stuff in the room at the moment. I have guitars and furniture stuck in front of my speakers at the moment. I've not heard the Hulgichs, they certainly look the part.

[Kaynin]

51 minutes ago, Mike13 said:

@Kaynin Marantz did fine. Centre sounded great, subs worked well. My wife thought it was the floorstanders on.

 

I'm not surprised really, the Marantz will be powering the centre most of the time, so if the Consonance is taking care of the fronts then you'll be getting excellent results.  You would likely get gains in moving up the chain of the Marantz too, but hey, you've got a room full of awesome gear to play with and sort out first, so you'll be busy enough for a long time!

 

Beautiful speakers there, and look the part, I'm jealous!

[Al.M]

3 hours ago, Mike13 said:

Well that was simple. Although it wants it further from the back wall than I was expecting and what @Al.M was suggesting. Will try both.

 

I have the speakers on 20 cent coins at the moment. Can anyone suggest ones that help you move the speakers easily? Marc had little white cups but couldn't remember where they were from.

 

One of These days by Pink Floyd is sounding good at high volume

The calculator is suggesting ideal speaker distances to walls but clearly not practical as you don’t have the space and the equilateral listening triangle could not be formed. Just move things around and see what works and balance it with practicalities.

[Al.M]

10 hours ago, Mike13 said:

Thanks att. In my other thread everyone echoes your advice. There is carpet, couches and cushions behind the matts, but the glass is my big problem that I can’t remedy.

 

I can see where my wife is coming from - it does seem to be a strange idea to put curtains there for sound. What with giant speakers and kids stuff our lounge room is not what it used to be.

 

That’s why I was thinking about seeing if professional room treatment and equalisation could help. Some think not. 

Perhaps try all the other suggestions and see if you are satisfied before resorting to room treatments and curtains. I had a similar room to yours and was able to achieve a good result. The rear reflecting wall may not matter as much as reflecting side and other walls. Also, don’t create a completely bare room that reflects more than a room with furniture that can help to breakup reflections, so long as the objects are not in the way of the main speakers.

 

You could also try arranging the system to left or right or opposite wall if it suits. 

[Al.M]

6 hours ago, Mike13 said:

Yes that sounds right, otherwise more people would buy expensive drivers and put them in a ready made box.

Some DIY audiophiles are doing just that but it’s not easy, see DIY section here on SNA and http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/

 

Also, http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm