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How to create a sustainable future for vinyl"

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2 hours ago, rantan said:

 

I like your sense of humour mate, but Neil Young ( except for his personal wealth ) is a very empty messiah

Just like the people promoting the virtues of digital sound.......at least he tried to improve an obviously flawed format.:thumb:

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4 minutes ago, stevoz said:

Just like the people promoting the virtues of digital sound.......at least he tried to improve an obviously flawed format.:thumb:

 

and who might they be?

 

I posted that my interest is in collecting vinyl that is either from new artists or older and rare editions.much more so than re-issues and I am enjoying doing just that.

I don't know of any post in this thread promoting that which bothers you so much

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5 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

and who might they be?

 

I posted that my interest is in collecting vinyl that is either from new artists or older and rare editions.much more so than re-issues and I am enjoying doing just that.

I don't know of any post in this thread promoting that which bothers you so much

Settle......I was talking about no one on here. Think back to when CD's began......those people.:)

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1 minute ago, stevoz said:

Settle......I was talking about no one on here. Think back to when CD's began......those people.:)

 

I'm cool mate and I agree 100% . The early digital players were diabolical and the marketing was borderline fraudulent:)

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20 hours ago, ABG said:

I read the article over the weekend and thought it raised some salient points.  For mine, the more important points went far beyond simply addressing the plethora of poorly pressed reissues. I'm not saying that's not an important point that the industry needs to address - it definitely needs addressing sooner rather than later.

 

How sustainable is a resurgence driven by re-issues?  Looking at the sales data on Discogs (a pretty reliable indicator), the top ten selling albums for August 2017 https://blog.discogs.com/en/discogs-top-50-best-selling-albums-august-2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=mktg&utm_campaign=newsletter1711 (couldn't find September or October figures) were:

  1. Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
  2. Michael Jackson - Thriller
  3. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
  4. Pink Floyd - The Wall
  5. The Beatles - Sgt. Peppers 
  6. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
  7. Radiohead - OK Computer OKNOTOK
  8. The Beatles - Abbey Road
  9. Dire Straits- Brothers In Arms
  10. Queen - Greatest Hits

How sustainable is an industry that's reliance on re-issues is so overwhelming?  Why aren't newly produced albums topping these charts?  Based on this data, the vinyl resurgence looks to me as one being driven by boring old farts who are either not interested in the future of the music industry, or lack the imagination and daring to listen to something new.  Unless something fundamental changes here, the industry will become a fetid pool ever stagnating as it watches its core demographic fall off the perch.  Even if science does decode the genome (edit: when science does decode the genome) and understand how to halt aging indefinitely, or by a significant margin, how many re-releases of the same old, same old can be peddled to the market?

 

How sustainable is the material?  A few of the interviewees discussed how the medium has had to change over the years as various nasties previously used in the production process have been phased out due to new regulations.  Being a petroleum based product, it has a limited shelf life unless some bright young thing discovers an environmentally friendly  synthetic alternative that sacrifices nothing in quality.  Even if this happens, there will invariably be a host of fuddy duddies who hoo ha about how it doesn't sound like it used to and decry it as utter rubbish.

 

The other item that caught my eye was the introduction of the Warm Tone pressing machine by Viryl Technologies.  That was one thing from the article that gave me some degree of confidence that vinyl is here for a little while longer at least.  Does anyone have any mail on what pressing plants have invested in this technology?  Any records that have been pressed on one of these machines?  I'd be really keen to know and suspect a few others here would be as well.

A lot of it has to do with the number of old farts like us that have disposable income to spend, but it’s also to do with the concept of an Album being a cohesive total, that suits LP. Before the LP became the most popular format in the late 60s it was all singles, and now again we have most artists promoting single tracks for download. If. New artists produce albums again that will be a big help to vinyl IMO

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27 minutes ago, Chill3 said:

 If. New artists produce albums again that will be a big help to vinyl IMO

It's started to happen again, in a small way.

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9 hours ago, Hensa said:

I think you're being a tad harsh, Andrew. I for one, have invested quite heavily in reissues of records I either didn't purchase in their original release period or I needed to replace for those that were no longer up to snuff. In some cases, I purchased the reissues based on a remaster being an improvement to one I already owned. In any event, I don't consider myself a "boring old fart not interested in the music industry or lacking imagination and daring to listen to something new" and I certainly buy plenty of new music on vinyl as well. I don't however think it's right to disapprove of those that want to listen to the music they love, regardless of whether it is new or old. As long as they're enjoying listening and enjoying playing it on vinyl, then all good.

 

I look at it slightly differently. The massive sales of reissues is, right now, the funding platform for music producers and pressing plants to be able to press new music on vinyl. If the represses of the top ten you've listed generate enough income for producers and plants to press dozens of new releases on vinyl, then keep it going, I say. Also worth remembering that many are getting into vinyl for the first time and don't have a library of 70's and 80's music. I see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing that these folk build a library that shows some appreciation of how we got to the music of today.

 

I'm not ashamed to say that I have reissues of 1,3,4,6,7,9 and 10 of those listed and a few of them are multiple copies of some of my favourite albums ever. I will continue to enjoy listening to records from the 50's right through to this year and say good luck to those that listen to their favourites from whatever decade they were created.:thumb:

 

Agree with all of your other points!:)

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Hensa said:

I think you're being a tad harsh, Andrew. I for one, have invested quite heavily in reissues of records I either didn't purchase in their original release period or I needed to replace for those that were no longer up to snuff. In some cases, I purchased the reissues based on a remaster being an improvement to one I already owned. In any event, I don't consider myself a "boring old fart not interested in the music industry or lacking imagination and daring to listen to something new" and I certainly buy plenty of new music on vinyl as well. I don't however think it's right to disapprove of those that want to listen to the music they love, regardless of whether it is new or old. As long as they're enjoying listening and enjoying playing it on vinyl, then all good.

 

I look at it slightly differently. The massive sales of reissues is, right now, the funding platform for music producers and pressing plants to be able to press new music on vinyl. If the represses of the top ten you've listed generate enough income for producers and plants to press dozens of new releases on vinyl, then keep it going, I say. Also worth remembering that many are getting into vinyl for the first time and don't have a library of 70's and 80's music. I see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing that these folk build a library that shows some appreciation of how we got to the music of today.

 

I'm not ashamed to say that I have reissues of 1,3,4,6,7,9 and 10 of those listed and a few of them are multiple copies of some of my favourite albums ever. I will continue to enjoy listening to records from the 50's right through to this year and say good luck to those that listen to their favourites from whatever decade they were created.:thumb:

 

Agree with all of your other points!:)

 

 

 

 

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No idea what happened there.  Can one of the mods remove the complete bollocks up I made of trying to respond?

 

Cheers 

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22 minutes ago, ABG said:

No idea what happened there.  Can one of the mods remove the complete bollocks up I made of trying to respond?

 

Cheers 

And there I was thinking you liked my comment so much, you wanted to keep quoting it!😀

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I tried to buy Sam Brooke’s album Kairos and I couldn’t get into band camp. Not being on Facebook or Twitter makes it a pain. If new artists had better access to sales distribution it would help. 

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Andrew

 

I am not sure quoting the best selling albums on discogs is representative of what people are buying globally. Discogs makes money from selling rare albums, most of which are oldies.

 

I wonder what amazon's top 20 selling albums would be.?

 

 Highest selling albums in 2016 in the UK shows a slightly different mix.

 

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-official-top-40-biggest-selling-vinyl-albums-and-singles-of-2016__17583/

The Official Top 40 biggest selling vinyl albums of 2016 are:

1 BLACKSTAR DAVID BOWIE
2 BACK TO BLACK AMY WINEHOUSE
3 GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY - AWESOME MIX 1 ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK
4 A MOON SHAPED POOL RADIOHEAD
5 RUMOURS FLEETWOOD MAC
6 THE STONE ROSES STONE ROSES
7 LEGEND BOB MARLEY & THE WAILERS
8 SGT PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND BEATLES
9 PURPLE RAIN - OST PRINCE & THE REVOLUTION
10 NEVERMIND NIRVANA
11 I LIKE IT WHEN YOU SLEEP FOR YOU ARE SO 1975
12 THE RISE AND FALL OF ZIGGY STARDUST DAVID BOWIE
13 25 ADELE
14 PULP FICTION ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK
15 AM ARCTIC MONKEYS
16 THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON PINK FLOYD
17 HUNKY DORY DAVID BOWIE
18 THE QUEEN IS DEAD SMITHS
19 HOTEL CALIFORNIA EAGLES
20 EVERYTHING YOU'VE COME TO EXPECT LAST SHADOW PUPPETS
21 UNPLUGGED IN NEW YORK NIRVANA
22 WHAT'S THE STORY MORNING GLORY OASIS
23 HATFUL OF HOLLOW SMITHS
24 FOUR SYMBOLS LED ZEPPELIN
25 NOTHING HAS CHANGED - THE VERY BEST OF DAVID BOWIE
26 ABBEY ROAD BEATLES
27 APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION GUNS N' ROSES
28 CHANGESONEBOWIE DAVID BOWIE
29 BLUE & LONESOME ROLLING STONES
30 ELLIPSIS BIFFY CLYRO

 

In he US, vinyl sales in 2016

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2017/01/05/x-twenty-one-pilots-score-the-best-selling-vinyl-album-of-2016/2/#7738bc6e7f81

 

1. Twenty One Pilots - Blurryface, 68,000

2. David Bowie - Blackstar, 66,000

3. Adele - 25, 58,000

4. Amy Winehouse, Back to Black, 58,000

5. Radiohead, A Moon Shaped Pool, 57,000

6. The Beatles, Abbey Road, 54,000

7. Bob Marley and the Wailers, Legend: The Best Of, 49,000

8. Twenty One Pilots, Vessel, 46,000

9. Miles Davis, Kind of Blue, 42,000

10. Lana Del Rey, Born to Die, 39,000

 

Edited by metal beat

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10 hours ago, Hensa said:

I think you're being a tad harsh, Andrew. I for one, have invested quite heavily in reissues of records I either didn't purchase in their original release period or I needed to replace for those that were no longer up to snuff. In some cases, I purchased the reissues based on a remaster being an improvement to one I already owned. In any event, I don't consider myself a "boring old fart not interested in the music industry or lacking imagination and daring to listen to something new" and I certainly buy plenty of new music on vinyl as well. I don't however think it's right to disapprove of those that want to listen to the music they love, regardless of whether it is new or old. As long as they're enjoying listening and enjoying playing it on vinyl, then all good.

 

I look at it slightly differently. The massive sales of reissues is, right now, the funding platform for music producers and pressing plants to be able to press new music on vinyl. If the represses of the top ten you've listed generate enough income for producers and plants to press dozens of new releases on vinyl, then keep it going, I say. Also worth remembering that many are getting into vinyl for the first time and don't have a library of 70's and 80's music. I see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing that these folk build a library that shows some appreciation of how we got to the music of today.

 

I'm not ashamed to say that I have reissues of 1,3,4,6,7,9 and 10 of those listed and a few of them are multiple copies of some of my favourite albums ever. I will continue to enjoy listening to records from the 50's right through to this year and say good luck to those that listen to their favourites from whatever decade they were created.:thumb:

 

Agree with all of your other points!:)

 

You're missing my admittedly badly made point.  Like you and many others here, I also have a number of classic album re-issues.  I've also bought original pressings of classic rock albums recently.  Just because you listen to classic albums doesn't make you a boring old fart.  As you say, you need to understand where current music comes from (something I think Roon is superb at doing).  That's exactly why I listen to classical music, jazz, blues, classic rock through to the huge variety of genres we have today.  Each gives the other context. 

 

What I was trying to say was that if all we did was buy classic rock albums, then the vinyl resurgence would be pretty short lived.  How long before you've bought copies of all the classic albums you want ferchrissakes?  Ultimately that's not sustainable.  I'm saying don't get stuck in a rut musically like most people do.  They stop giving a **** about music that is produced after they hit age 30.  SNA is comprised by and large of music lovers who will listen to new musical ideas with an open mind.  It takes people moving out of their comfort zone, as each of the regulars do at the Sydney GTG's, and buying music from new artists to keep the music industry alive.  Fostering new ideas and new expressions.  Getting out to see new, young, up and coming musicians - as you do Greg.  Whether it be someone playing something new, or putting a new twist on an old idea regardless of the genre they're playing.  This is what will ultimately make vinyl, or any other medium, a sustainable one.  If the top ten vinyl albums bought remains the same month in month out (which it's in danger of doing), the vinyl resurgence will die a slow death.

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I tried to buy Sam Brooke’s album Kairos and I couldn’t get into band camp. Not being on Facebook or Twitter makes it a pain. If new artists had better access to sales distribution it would help. 


I’m not on Facebook or Twitter and had no issues. I just googled Sam Brooke’s and went straight to his Bandcamp page and purchase was straightforward. Was the Bandcamp site down possibly?

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You're missing my admittedly badly made point.  Like you and many others here, I also have a number of classic album re-issues.  I've also bought original pressings of classic rock albums recently.  Just because you listen to classic albums doesn't make you a boring old fart.  As you say, you need to understand where current music comes from (something I think Roon is superb at doing).  That's exactly why I listen to classical music, jazz, blues, classic rock through to the huge variety of genres we have today.  Each gives the other context. 
 
What I was trying to say was that if all we did was buy classic rock albums, then the vinyl resurgence would be pretty short lived.  How long before you've bought copies of all the classic albums you want ferchrissakes?  Ultimately that's not sustainable.  I'm saying don't get stuck in a rut musically like most people do.  They stop giving a **** about music that is produced after they hit age 30.  SNA is comprised by and large of music lovers who will listen to new musical ideas with an open mind.  It takes people moving out of their comfort zone, as each of the regulars do at the Sydney GTG's, and buying music from new artists to keep the music industry alive.  Fostering new ideas and new expressions.  Getting out to see new, young, up and coming musicians - as you do Greg.  Whether it be someone playing something new, or putting a new twist on an old idea regardless of the genre they're playing.  This is what will ultimately make vinyl, or any other medium, a sustainable one.  If the top ten vinyl albums bought remains the same month in month out (which it's in danger of doing), the vinyl resurgence will die a slow death.


I do get your point, Andrew, but don’t necessarily agree that it’s a bad thing for some people to prefer to spend their time listening to the music they listened to in their 30’s rather than explore new music. While that doesn’t suit me, it suits plenty of others (my brother is a great example) and as long as they’re happy listening to what they enjoy, I don’t think negatively of their choice. While there are plenty of sna’ers that enjoy the exploration of new musical offerings, I’m sure there are some also that prefer to listen to what they already know they like, perhaps music from their youth up to their late 20’s.

I still believe the reissues platform is the perfect launch pad for expansion of vinyl sales for new music and without it, the vinyl resurgence would already be over.

Regardless, I look forward to discussing it all at your GTG in a couple of weeks, over a beer while listening to my Bucks Fizz and Wham reissues!

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