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metal beat

How to create a sustainable future for vinyl"

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These two answers for me hit the nail on the head on - quality of the vinyl pressings..

 

Already you read through various qeb sires and in general people are sick of the poor quality of new pressings. US pressing plants in general are the biggest problem.


What do you consider the biggest threat first to Viryl Technologies and then more generally to the vinyl industry at large?

The biggest threat for us is that the quality standard does not improve in the industry as a whole. Currently there is a massive quality problem in vinyl manufacturing. If the industry does not react to this and make steps to improve these issues people will lose interest in the format. If someone is going to spend $30 on a record in comparison to streaming, or other very, very cheap options, it better be pristine…


What do you consider to be the most important step that needs to be taken in order to create a more sustainable future for vinyl?

Manufacturing. Not just the pressing of records, but also quality plating and cutting. There is room for improvement across all 3 steps of making a vinyl record. This industry is beginning to catch up but there is still a lot of work to do

Edited by metal beat

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It's hard to resist a moment like this: "CD: Perfect Sound, forever! "

 

And an article from 1992 telling us CD was just going to get better:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/25/business/technology-yes-cd-sound-is-perfect-and-yes-it-s-getting-even-better.html

 

So the business world tries to kill vinyl and now needs to resurrect it, and is worried about the future. It's a crazy world.  It's kind of like CD: the audio revolution that failed.  Except CDs are rather good in terms of the musical data they hold, but most CD players can't deal with all the information on a CD as a live stream.  It's surprising that a mass market CDP that could extract all the information from a CD hasn't been developed - I guess that shows how hard it is to do.  

 

 

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Next year Sony will open a new pressing factory in Tokyo . In Japan there is a company name Toyokasei still making lp is produce very good quality . When a big company like Sony see the potential benefit in Lp market talking about billions dollars profit then you see the future of LP is quite good . Other important step is the whole analogue industries have to look at theirs products pricing to accomodate hobbyists who want to listen to LP . What i see price of tonearms , cartridges , Turntables ... are more than that average income consumers can afford compare with years ago . Price is a big factor for sustainable for LP industry .

Edited by palexsia

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6 minutes ago, palexsia said:

Next year Sony will open a new pressing factory in Tokyo . In Japan there is a company name Toyokasei still making lp is produce very good quality . When a big company like Sony see the potential benefit in Lp market talking about billions dollars profit then you see the future of LP is quite good . Other important step is the whole analogue industries have to look at theirs products pricing to accomodate hobbyists who want to listen to LP . What i see price of tonearms , cartridges , Turntables ... are more than that average income consumers can afford compare with years ago . Price is a big factor for sustainable for LP industry .

There many secondhand turntables which are excellent.  The modern turntable industry is used to selling an elite product - although Rega and others recognise this and price accordingly.  But there are so many wonderful old turntables out there going for good prices. 

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I loved this bit from the 1992 article:  'The digital recording of CD's still strikes many audiophiles, recording engineers and musicians as cold and artificial next to the best analog recording.'  and this bit even more:  "Digital is completely wrong. It's a farce," wrote Neil Young, the rock musician, in a recent editorial in Guitar Player magazine. "This is the darkest time ever for recorded music." Too true.....:)

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6 minutes ago, stevoz said:

I loved this bit from the 1992 article:  'The digital recording of CD's still strikes many audiophiles, recording engineers and musicians as cold and artificial next to the best analog recording.'  and this bit even more:  "Digital is completely wrong. It's a farce," wrote Neil Young, the rock musician, in a recent editorial in Guitar Player magazine. "This is the darkest time ever for recorded music." Too true.....:)

Yes, it was lovely wasn't it.  I grew up on vinyl records and the early cheap CD players were horrible.  Later on I bought an expensive CD player for the time, and it was much better. But years later I realised I should have just spent that money on a better turntable and better tonearm - which is where I am now.  However, I have much to say positively about PC Audio if you get the set-up right.  It does work well and is better than CD playback.  But people on the PC Audio thread would know this better than me. 

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@gmdb Like you, getting a decent CD player was a bit of a revelation for me but, like you, I am back to analogue and when I did return to it, it was a far better "back to the future' revelation. So glad!

Edited by stevoz

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I read the article over the weekend and thought it raised some salient points.  For mine, the more important points went far beyond simply addressing the plethora of poorly pressed reissues. I'm not saying that's not an important point that the industry needs to address - it definitely needs addressing sooner rather than later.

 

How sustainable is a resurgence driven by re-issues?  Looking at the sales data on Discogs (a pretty reliable indicator), the top ten selling albums for August 2017 https://blog.discogs.com/en/discogs-top-50-best-selling-albums-august-2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=mktg&utm_campaign=newsletter1711 (couldn't find September or October figures) were:

  1. Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
  2. Michael Jackson - Thriller
  3. Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
  4. Pink Floyd - The Wall
  5. The Beatles - Sgt. Peppers 
  6. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
  7. Radiohead - OK Computer OKNOTOK
  8. The Beatles - Abbey Road
  9. Dire Straits- Brothers In Arms
  10. Queen - Greatest Hits

How sustainable is an industry that's reliance on re-issues is so overwhelming?  Why aren't newly produced albums topping these charts?  Based on this data, the vinyl resurgence looks to me as one being driven by boring old farts who are either not interested in the future of the music industry, or lack the imagination and daring to listen to something new.  Unless something fundamental changes here, the industry will become a fetid pool ever stagnating as it watches its core demographic fall off the perch.  Even if science does decode the genome (edit: when science does decode the genome) and understand how to halt aging indefinitely, or by a significant margin, how many re-releases of the same old, same old can be peddled to the market?

 

How sustainable is the material?  A few of the interviewees discussed how the medium has had to change over the years as various nasties previously used in the production process have been phased out due to new regulations.  Being a petroleum based product, it has a limited shelf life unless some bright young thing discovers an environmentally friendly  synthetic alternative that sacrifices nothing in quality.  Even if this happens, there will invariably be a host of fuddy duddies who hoo ha about how it doesn't sound like it used to and decry it as utter rubbish.

 

The other item that caught my eye was the introduction of the Warm Tone pressing machine by Viryl Technologies.  That was one thing from the article that gave me some degree of confidence that vinyl is here for a little while longer at least.  Does anyone have any mail on what pressing plants have invested in this technology?  Any records that have been pressed on one of these machines?  I'd be really keen to know and suspect a few others here would be as well.

Edited by ABG

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1 hour ago, palexsia said:

Next year Sony will open a new pressing factory in Tokyo . In Japan there is a company name Toyokasei still making lp is produce very good quality . When a big company like Sony see the potential benefit in Lp market talking about billions dollars profit then you see the future of LP is quite good . Other important step is the whole analogue industries have to look at theirs products pricing to accomodate hobbyists who want to listen to LP . What i see price of tonearms , cartridges , Turntables ... are more than that average income consumers can afford compare with years ago . Price is a big factor for sustainable for LP industry .

 

i wouldn't hold sony as an exemplar on anything except how to run your business into the ground.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, analog brother said:

i only have one of those top 10 records on vinyl and 2 on cd.

i don't wanna be a hipster!

I have 1(no.2) on vinyl and 3 (no.'s 1, 2 & 9) on CD....but I want four more of that list on vinyl.:P Floyd and Straits for the curious....

Edited by stevoz

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13 hours ago, ABG said:

How sustainable is an industry that's reliance on re-issues is so overwhelming?  Why aren't newly produced albums topping these charts?  Based on this data, the vinyl resurgence looks to me as one being driven by boring old farts who are either not interested in the future of the music industry, or lack the imagination and daring to listen to something new.  Unless something fundamental changes here, the industry will become a fetid pool ever stagnating as it watches its core demographic fall off the perch.  Even if science does decode the genome (edit: when science does decode the genome) and understand how to halt aging indefinitely, or by a significant margin, how many re-releases of the same old, same old can be peddled to the market?

I think you're being a tad harsh, Andrew. I for one, have invested quite heavily in reissues of records I either didn't purchase in their original release period or I needed to replace for those that were no longer up to snuff. In some cases, I purchased the reissues based on a remaster being an improvement to one I already owned. In any event, I don't consider myself a "boring old fart not interested in the music industry or lacking imagination and daring to listen to something new" and I certainly buy plenty of new music on vinyl as well. I don't however think it's right to disapprove of those that want to listen to the music they love, regardless of whether it is new or old. As long as they're enjoying listening and enjoying playing it on vinyl, then all good.

 

I look at it slightly differently. The massive sales of reissues is, right now, the funding platform for music producers and pressing plants to be able to press new music on vinyl. If the represses of the top ten you've listed generate enough income for producers and plants to press dozens of new releases on vinyl, then keep it going, I say. Also worth remembering that many are getting into vinyl for the first time and don't have a library of 70's and 80's music. I see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing that these folk build a library that shows some appreciation of how we got to the music of today.

 

I'm not ashamed to say that I have reissues of 1,3,4,6,7,9 and 10 of those listed and a few of them are multiple copies of some of my favourite albums ever. I will continue to enjoy listening to records from the 50's right through to this year and say good luck to those that listen to their favourites from whatever decade they were created.:thumb:

 

Agree with all of your other points!:)

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, gmdb said:

There many secondhand turntables which are excellent.  The modern turntable industry is used to selling an elite product - although Rega and others recognise this and price accordingly.  But there are so many wonderful old turntables out there going for good prices. 

I do agree that we have many second hand tt  , many are good and many are not so good need to services to get it up and running to correct speed , bearing noise .... not many of us know how to do it and not many tech service TT in fact too bloody hard to find one good experience TT tech and to find parts when parts are no longer made for long time ago mostly you on your own if your old TT brake down . Let forget about the elite just for general user .

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2 hours ago, Hensa said:

I think you're being a tad harsh, Andrew. I for one, have invested quite heavily in reissues of records I either didn't purchase in their original release period or I needed to replace for those that were no longer up to snuff. In some cases, I purchased the reissues based on a remaster being an improvement to one I already owned. In any event, I don't consider myself a "boring old fart not interested in the music industry or lacking imagination and daring to listen to something new" and I certainly buy plenty of new music on vinyl as well. I don't however think it's right to disapprove of those that want to listen to the music they love, regardless of whether it is new or old. As long as they're enjoying listening and enjoying playing it on vinyl, then all good.

 

I look at it slightly differently. The massive sales of reissues is, right now, the funding platform for music producers and pressing plants to be able to press new music on vinyl. If the represses of the top ten you've listed generate enough income for producers and plants to press dozens of new releases on vinyl, then keep it going, I say. Also worth remembering that many are getting into vinyl for the first time and don't have a library of 70's and 80's music. I see it as a good thing rather than a bad thing that these folk build a library that shows some appreciation of how we got to the music of today.

 

I'm not ashamed to say that I have reissues of 1,3,4,6,7,9 and 10 of those listed and a few of them are multiple copies of some of my favourite albums ever. I will continue to enjoy listening to records from the 50's right through to this year and say good luck to those that listen to their favourites from whatever decade they were created.:thumb:

 

Agree with all of your other points!:)

 

 

 

One of the biggest wind falls to the music industry was people replacing their vinyl collection with the same thing on cd. Can't see that it is a bad thing that it is now happening the other way round.

 

I have 1,4,5,6,8 and 10 on vinyl and I have them on cd, mainly for when I was in the car. My new car does not have a cd player so that has stuffed that up.

 

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I have all 10 on vinyl but only 2 are recent re-issues (since the vinyl revival) - 7 and 10.

 

I admit to being a boring old fart, and also see the reissues as helping fuel the vinyl revival, and allowing new releases to ride on the coat tails of the revival.

15 hours ago, ABG said:

how many re-releases of the same old, same old can be peddled to the market?

A surprising amount judging by the multiple releases of some on that list!

 

Variations can include: 

Basic reissue

Remastered

Coloured vinyl

Additional tracks

Out takes

Added bonus live versions

45 rpm version 

etc

etc

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17 hours ago, stevoz said:

I loved this bit from the 1992 article:  'The digital recording of CD's still strikes many audiophiles, recording engineers and musicians as cold and artificial next to the best analog recording.'  and this bit even more:  "Digital is completely wrong. It's a farce," wrote Neil Young, the rock musician, in a recent editorial in Guitar Player magazine. "This is the darkest time ever for recorded music." Too true.....:)

 

......... From the the creator of the much hyped but utterly unsuccessful Pono player

Just a tad hypocritical perhaps?

 

Sorry for the OT.

 

 My interests are finding old and rare vinyl as well as finding brand new music on Bandcamp etc. I am not bothering with re issues that I have and enjoy on that other  format:)

Edited by rantan

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15 hours ago, analog brother said:

i only have one of those top 10 records on vinyl and 2 on cd.

i don't wanna be a hipster!

Whats Hipster got to do with it?

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30 minutes ago, rantan said:

........ From the the creator of the much hyped but utterly unsuccessful Pono player

Just a tad hypocritical perhaps?

No.

The movement to save music from compressed formats has begun. 

Remember, Pono or the idea was introduced to combat the compressed crap that was around at the time. What, five or six years ago. It might have failed, but I feel it helped change the Digital music system towards having better sound quality.

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1 minute ago, Wimbo said:

No.

The movement to save music from compressed formats has begun. 

Remember, Pono or the idea was introduced to combat the compressed crap that was around at the time. What, five or six years ago. It might have failed, but I feel it helped change the Digital music system towards having better sound quality.

 

I like your sense of humour mate, but Neil Young ( except for his personal wealth ) is a very empty messiah

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25 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

I like your sense of humour mate, but Neil Young ( except for his personal wealth ) is a very empty messiah

Enlighten me please Lindsay. Something I've missed.

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3 minutes ago, Wimbo said:

Enlighten me please Lindsay. Something I've missed.

 

I don't want to drag this OT, but suffice to say that Neil young should get over himself and cease pontificating.

 

Anyway, let's get back to vinyl collecting:)

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