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kukynas

4K IP security cameras

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I've been watching IP camera space for couple of years and patiently waiting until high quality 4K IP cameras become affordable, that time is here, bite the bullet and ordered one yesterday, specs are here, mine is coming with 2.8mm lens 

Why 4K (8Mp) IP camera? same reason as in case of standard photo camera, with higher pixel density you can crop more and easily without loosing quality, how does it work and what to expect from such camera is shown below

 

 

another cropping (digital zoom) below starts 5:20

 

 

what to expect from different codecs H264 vs. H265 under different conditions and overall day/night picture quality, this video also showing what new EXIR 2.0 IR LED is capable of

 

 

I will confirm chipset and sensor used once it arrives but for now I would assume it's the same as used in Dahua IPC-HDW4831EM-ASE which is IMX274LQC

 

Price wise between $130-140 USD delivered if you buy directly from AliExpress, usually $250-300 from your local distributors

 

 

 

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so far so good, high quality as expected from Hikvision, now just to find suitable 12V PSU and it's ready for test :)

 

IMG_0694.thumb.JPG.b70fb6fda858df2ba93ef8282215de82.JPG

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nothing yet, won't be able to install it until March/April next year (too cold outside and new cables need to be wired under the ceiling from outside) but once done I'm still not 100% sure if I use my current Synology NAS which has built in surveillance app (tested and works fine) or any of the Hikvision recorders, DS-7604NI-K1/4P would be best option for $150 bucks delivered, DS-7608NI-K2/8P is 8 channel version if required, the easy of use and POE support (less cables) has advantages over NAS but NAS might have easier integration within home network including mobile app so will see once it is hooked up, next to that I still plan to test IPC-HDW4831EM-ASE as alternative beginning of new year so things might change slightly

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Hikvision after long testing proved to be little disappointment, I thought it's on the same level like Dahua but it's not, it's not bad for short distances and good day light but anything else and it start struggle heavily so I will continue with Dahua brand which is proven concept with genuine IMX family sensors from Sony

 

in the meantime below arrived from local shop (135 bucks delivered with full local warranty), fully motorized PT indoor wi-fi 4MP (2K) camera, one which doesn't need more than app on your phone accessible from anywhere where's internet available with full setting options and remote control like any other pan/tilt camera

 

IMG_1146.thumb.JPG.d3ae3b380b451143b5e8b314f01031d1.JPG

 

next to try for outdoor is IPC-HDW5831R-ZE (200 USD delivered), below some comparison and info for those interested

 

  

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Many thanks. I've been thinking about doing something with IP based security cameras for a while and that video inspired me to move on it. I went to buy some cameras and wall mount brackets, but quickly realised there was much more I needed to know about how to set it all up. I hope the answers to the questions below would cover it, but there is probably plenty I don't even know to ask.

 

Is PoE used to power the cameras, or some other power supply? If so how?

 

Are Wi-Fi based cameras in places you can't get network cabling to acceptable, or should they all be wired?

 

Do I need an x-port security managed PoE switch for these setups, and if so what?

 

Or do I bring everything back to a PoE x-port NVR, and if so what?

 

Where is the security video recorded? On an NVR, NAS, or what else, and if so how?

 

What software should I use for this sort of setup? Does it come with the cameras, or an NVR, or should I use the sort of software found on say a Synology NAS, or something else entirely?

 

Are there particular codecs that need to be used to efficiently store the security footage, plus move so many 4K 8MP feeds simultaneously over the network cabling?

 

For how many days should the security footage kept?

 

How much disk space is required per 4K 8MP camera?

 

I'm sure the Stereo.net community brains trust will be able to provide great answers for total noobs like me.

Edited by lloyd_borrett

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I have 8 x Hikvision cameras (current high-end models) that I can't recall the model number. However after about 6 months I'm really unhappy with them.

They lose their PoE connection back to Synology all the time (previous cameras did not). Support is pretty much non-existent. All they do is say update the firmware, but I have nothing but trouble trying to find the right firmware and making it stick.

 

I've given up and ordered some Dahua ones (listed above) so I'll report back when they arrive.

 

I pay for Surveillance Station on Synology and find that great. I keep just a few days of storage but yes the space does start stacking up after days of 8MP x 10 cameras. If I was to set up again, I'd have a seperate NVR for my surveillance system. I've found I can choke the bandwidth of the NAS with all my media (video and audio) plus the camera streams.

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8 hours ago, lloyd_borrett said:

Is PoE used to power the cameras, or some other power supply? If so how?

Are Wi-Fi based cameras in places you can't get network cabling to acceptable, or should they all be wired?

Do I need an x-port security managed PoE switch for these setups, and if so what?

Or do I bring everything back to a PoE x-port NVR, and if so what?

Where is the security video recorded? On an NVR, NAS, or what else, and if so how?

What software should I use for this sort of setup? Does it come with the cameras, or an NVR, or should I use the sort of software found on say a Synology NAS, or something else entirely?

Are there particular codecs that need to be used to efficiently store the security footage, plus move so many 4K 8MP feeds simultaneously over the network cabling?

For how many days should the security footage kept?

How much disk space is required per 4K 8MP camera?

I'm sure the Stereo.net community brains trust will be able to provide great answers for total noobs like me.

- you can use standard LAN(RJ45) cable for powering up your cameras via PoE, you don't need anything else...if not PoE possible you can use standard 12V/2.5A power supply

- yes that's their purpose, you don't need all wired but in that case very good Wi-Fi coverage, on the other hand I haven't seen Wi-Fi based 4K IP camera

- yes, all depended on how many cameras you plan to use, I don't use PoE at the moment so won't tell you which is best

- you can as well, again depended on # of cameras, this is one I would go for  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-egnlish-version-dahua-POE-NVR-4-8CH-1U-4PoE-Network-Video-Recorder-NVR4104-P-NVR4108/32658855684.html?spm=2114.search0104.8.4.4eb86620P3zpCD&priceBeautifyAB=0

- depends on your planned setup, do you plan using PoE switch? do you have NAS? NVR linked above can cover all your needs, it acts as your PoE source and recorder at the same time, everything what you need beside it is HDD

- you can chose what ever software you want, NVR has it's own, NAS has it's own but for both cases you can use 3rd party software available, first try the one provided by NVR or NAS and you'll see if it's sufficient for your needs

- yes, H.264 or H.265, both supported by camera and NVR, in case of NAS you need to choose correct model which supports those, usually all todays mid to high models

- depends on your needs and size of your HDD

- in H.264 codec approximately 2MB every second, in H.265 codec 1.2MB every second, multiply it by number of cameras and days you plan to keep your recording i.e. 1 x 4K H.265 continues stream will fulfill aprox 100GB per 24 hours on your HDD, if you set your cameras to only trigger on moving subjects you can safe a lot of space

 

as @Marc  said above separate NVR has it's own advantages and where possible I would go with NVR for its easy setup and operation (including cabling without switch)

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After a bit more research, I'm thinking about sourcing a security setup with eight Dahua IPC-HDW5831R-ZE (4K 8MP IP) Cameras with Dahua PFB203W wall brackets feeding into a Dahua DHI-NVR5416-16P-4KS2E Pro Network Video Recorder (16 Channel 1.5U 16PoE 4K&H.265) with four Western Digital WD 8TB Purple 3.5" Hard Drives. Then display it all on a couple of 4K big screens.

 

PoE should make the wiring easier.

 

Maybe more cameras will be needed to properly cover all areas, hence the 16 channel NVR.

 

What could possibly go wrong? 🙂

 

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@lloyd_borrett with your setup above you might be paying more than you really need to, first start with lower number of cameras to get familiar with its quality and setting, also with overall coverage and field of view, there might be better cameras for i.e. night vision more suitable for your needs so you can divide your camera purchase into categories...  

secondly I don't think you need NVR with 4HDDs (explanation below), 2 should be enough and it's 40% cheaper, NVR5216-16P-4KS2E should do the trick... 

in terms of HDD, I would take 2x WD100EFAX with lower power consumption and higher endurance

 

why 2x 10TB HDDs should be enough, as mentioned above in my calculation 1x 4K camera can fulfill up to 100GB of space on your HDD a day if you use continues recording which is in my view completely useless, not only you wasting space on HDD but also recording no activity so in case of later search you would have to go through several hours of recording to find event you've been looking for, if you set your record triggering only for moving subjects or certain time during the day you might save up to 90% of total space so 10GB vs. 100GB...

 

in such case your 8x 4K recording will be less than 100GB a day so 3 months of recording on one 10TB disk (or 2 in case of raid configuration) 

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On 06/07/2018 at 7:38 PM, kukynas said:

@lloyd_borrett with your setup above you might be paying more than you really need to...

 

first start with lower number of cameras...

 

secondly I don't think you need NVR with 4HDDs (explanation below)...

 

Normally that's an approach I'd take. However, I think I'm going to need at least 4 more cameras to fully cover the place. Hence choosing a 16 channel NVR. The camera model chosen seems to cover day and night very well, thus standardisation on the one model makes sense. But if I get that wrong, I can fix it when adding the extra cameras later.

 

Initially I'll probably only get two hard drives and see how it goes.

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just ordered: 

1x IPC-HDW5231R-ZE for low light (night vision) purposes, basically covering main entrance without turning IR on and still maintaining high quality 

1x IPC-HDW5831R-ZE for coverage of bigger area front of the house 

2x PFB203W wall mount

1x NVR5208-8P-4KS2 for recording

hyperlinks are part of the items

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by kukynas
added hyperlinks into items

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