stevoz Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) PART ONE: I got the Garrott Brothers P66 I bought on Ebay (for $40) on board tonight. Set the overhang and alignment accurately then removed the headshell with my Grace Level II which had been tracking at 1.25g . Not being exactly sure what the recommended VTF was for the Garrott and being impatient to hear it, I just thought I'll throw it on and do some tinkering in time. The carts are of a similar weight, a 0.1g difference, the Garrott the lighter, so I thought it would be tracking too light at around 1.15g which would need adjusting, but put on 'The Nightfly' and listened away....loud. I was impressed at first, good bass, quite good detail but a bit harsh when the music gets busier. It was cruel on surface noise, between tracks was a 'crackle and doonk' fest and I knew something just wasn't right. Then it hit me......the headshells, different weights! Gee, rookie mistake ......or was it that lovely Japanese 'N*ikk*a' whiskey at play? The headshell the Garrott was on was 2.3g heavier than the headshell with the Grace! (Really, there's no excuse for that oversight) The poor P66 was tracking at around 3.5g! Turns out that 'crackle and doonk' I heard was likely the sound of the cantilever suspension straining under this absurd weight......I then reset it to what I had since found is the correct VTF of 1.7g and wow, what a difference. Now it sounds rather sweet and no more bizarre surface noise. Quite sweet indeed. I need to listen to it more of course but for now, it appears to be a $40 wonder! I am liking the Garrott sound signature but more on that later....... PS; 'The Nightfly' is back on.....much much better! Smooth.....like that whiskey. NB: Name of said spirit above asterisked to avoid auto censorship.... Edited November 9, 2017 by stevoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) PART TWO: I have been giving the P66 a good going over today with some Vines, Joan Armatrading, Yes, Grace Jones and Kraftwerk. So far I am very impressed. Comparing it with the Grace Level ll, well its not quite up there of course but has a very pleasant sound signature. Ample bass, good mids and a little brighter but slightly less refined highs. Quite good detail retrieval, a quite balanced sound, overall for $40 it's a steal. I'm very impressed. I don't think it's been used a great deal actually. I will use it in the future for sure. I can only imagine what the Optim range would sound like (although my brother tried one for awhile and didn't fall in love with it.) I'm guessing a P77 would sound similar to this. Here's some pic's of the P66 in action fitted to a Pioneer JP504 headshell on the replinthed CEC BD3200. Allow for wide angle lens distortion....the headshell is perfectly level, I assure you. Edited November 10, 2017 by stevoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 @stevoz I think you need to raise the rear of the tonearm up a touch from memory. I know with the Microscanner this used to be done. Not sure with the Weinz, but it might also improve things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 @Wimbo Can't adjust VTA with this arm/table. I'll have to stick with it as it is......sounding quite good though. Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, stevoz said: @Wimbo Can't adjust VTA with this arm/table. I'll have to stick with it as it is......sounding quite good though. Cheers... In that case you use shims between the cartridge and the headshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 44 minutes ago, Full Range said: In that case you use shims between the cartridge and the headshell I was thinking after my last post that was possible. Thanks, I may try that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I don't know about the current range of Garrott Bros. stuff but anything repaired, designed, etc. by the brothers themselves always impressed me. As did their hospitality when I was privileged to be their guest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 @GregWormald By all accounts they were very welcoming....apparently many of their customers witnessed first hand their own beloved carts being retipped in the Garrott home. What they did with Decca's is the 'stuff of legend'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I put an order through with John the week they committed suicide. Was pretty knocked around about it. Nice blokes but strange in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, stevoz said: What they did with Decca's is the 'stuff of legend'. I have one of those Garrott / Decca Gold gems ? 12 minutes ago, stevoz said: I was thinking after my last post that was possible. Thanks, I may try that..... Yes they are certainly available to purchase In the old days I made a few shims from all sorts of materials that did a great job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Wimbo said: I put an order through with John the week they committed suicide. Was pretty knocked around about it. Nice blokes but strange in a way. yes, very sad indeed. The bros were great guys,very driven, as people in the Autism spectrum can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 10, 2017 Author Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, rantan said: yes, very sad indeed. The bros were great guys,very driven, as people in the Autism spectrum can be I seriously suspected that.....my nephew is an Aspy, a little odd yes but incredibly gifted. The Garrotts story was raising a few red flags for me. They are missed for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 12 hours ago, stevoz said: I seriously suspected that.....my nephew is an Aspy, a little odd yes but incredibly gifted. The Garrotts story was raising a few red flags for me. They are missed for sure. I never knew Autism was involved. No one ever mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) @Wimbo Back in the day with mental health issues, no one ever did..... Now they do but governments continue to chronically and repeatedly underfund this area.... Edited November 11, 2017 by stevoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, stevoz said: Back in the day with mental health issues, no one ever did. Yeah, I suppose. I was walking up the track on the Up side of Granville station when the Bold St bridge came down. I was there all day helping and the boss ended up sending me home. Came back to work at Clyde the next day as though nothing was wrong. Never really got over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 @Wimbo As long as you have dealt with it since.....that event affected many people adversely. I'm sure the music helps with that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 56 minutes ago, stevoz said: As long as you have dealt with it since Yeah, you put it in your pocket mate,but sometimes things trigger it, like now. Thats why you talk about it, anywhere, anytime. I've had worse. Thank god for things like music, it can take you to a special time of your life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 The memories themselves never go away. It used to be that you either 'got over' the incidents in time, or didn't and ended up in low effectiveness, long term therapy for PTSD. Fortunately these days there are techniques that can quickly take the trauma out of such memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) I have read on another SNA thread regarding Garrott carts that some place their P77's (as opposed to the P66) in the same league as the Grace F8C. I have put back on my F8C and in the case of the P66, it is not in the same league. The Grace is offering a more natural, more open and less fatiguing sound. I have noticed, with increased auditioning, a slight sibilance in the highs with the Garrott and the bass, while deep, is a touch 'boomy' at times, adding up to a less satisfying listen over a longer time period. It has me suspecting the P66 stylus is more worn than I had first thought, whereas the F8C stylus is NOS and hardly used. The Garrott is still a fine cart though. I'll have to check the Garrott stylus under my USB microscope. Edited November 12, 2017 by stevoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) As planned, I checked the P66 stylus under the USB microscope. It actually looks pretty good. Here's some PC screenshots:(taken with my phone, a Samsung S5): Edited November 14, 2017 by stevoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregWormald Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Hmmmm. Take a similar shot of an LP groove and see how much of the stylus actually touches the groove and hence wears. I think you'll be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I can barely make out the microridge profile from the screenshots. The usual advise applies , in that you will need to use a quality optical microscope in order to detect wear that is detrimental to your LP,s. It is always wise to have a stylus inspected to verify its condition when purchasing a cartridge that is in a used condition . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 It looks a bit worn to me. But not that bad. I think the coloration though Steve is the VTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanArn Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 55 minutes ago, Wimbo said: It looks a bit worn to me. But not that bad. I think the coloration though Steve is the VTA. You cannot construe anything concerning the stylus condition from the screenshots. A microscope with good optics and lighting, with a magnification of at least 400 X is needed for this function. I have access to a metallurgical instrument and a USB microscope. The latter is useful for inspecting components on pcb,s and reading part no,s of ic,s, however it is useless for checking the wear of a diamond stylus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 57 minutes ago, VanArn said: You cannot construe anything concerning the stylus condition from the screenshots. A microscope with good optics and lighting, with a magnification of at least 400 X is needed for this function. I have access to a metallurgical instrument and a USB microscope. The latter is useful for inspecting components on pcb,s and reading part no,s of ic,s, however it is useless for checking the wear of a diamond stylus. To me, the tracing side of the stylus looks as though its starting to wear and the coloration of the stylus makes me think that. I used a traditional stylus microscope for 30 years and I'm only talking re my experience. My statement is relative to memory only of course, not science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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