Lenehan Audio Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Hi Guys Just got back from upgrading Assisi's ML2Limited with Duelund Silver bypass capacitors ! I've been using these caps to very good effect over the Jantzen Superior caps recently but I've never tried them over the Duelund cast in the limited. Ok so I went to the show on Saturday and caught up with heaps of mates and did the SNA dinner after the show. Awesome day and of course all the hierarchy of the greatest audio forum in the Universe (Stereonet) was there ! DarthVader, Assisi,FrankN,EvilC,Rob181,SirSandersZingmore and of course I met Spyne ( he seems to have had his eye fixed though ) Right ! Back to the speakers >> it took all day to get it done but by about 2pm we had one done so of course we fired it up . I think we were playing Belefonte live at Carnegie Hall , John said ! Mike ! it sounds better and indeed it did ,even just listening to one speaker We had the second one done by 5.30 and the change was just out of proportion to what I was expecting . We were running a bypass on the tweeter capacitor but also on the bass shunt capacitor . The change in the bass was surpringly big and acoustic guitars sounded much more organic and communicative. John has got an excellent electronics suite driving the ML2Limiteds and I listened to it before we did the upgrade , it was fast smooth and resolute with excellent dynamics . After the upgrade though it definitely excelled in areas it hadn't before like significantly improved sound staging and just plain thereness , acoustic steel and nylon guitars were just real and Belefontes voice produced a thereness that gave me goosebumps on my arms (an actual emotional experience ) Regards Mike Lenehan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljmac Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Definitely have to get this done to mine when I finally have some spare money again (probably early in the new year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Hi ML2 Ltd Owners, Mike and I first talked about this upgrade to my speakers approximately a year ago. I was aware of there was a benefit from using the Dueland silver bypass capacitors from articles that I had read. Mike said he was coming to Melbourne and would visit me and do the upgrade. Finally a year later he came down. The inducement to get him to come was the offer to share the last bottle of my ‘98 Bin 389. The first speaker took a while to disassemble as the copper screws holding the drivers in had to be treated with considerable delicate care. The second speaker was much quicker because of the experience gained from the first one. The first speaker was put on its stand and connected to make sure it worked. We were both surprised as how good it sounded even on its own. The second was finished and connected. The result for me was an absolute WOW moment. The extra bass was just amazing and sound stage more noticeable . Initially the plan was to do the upgrade bypass only on the Dueland copper casts for the tweeter. Mike suggested it might be of some benefit to do the bass capacitors as well whilst the speakers were open. Hence there are now two bypass capacitors per box. I had hoped and expected some benefit from the upgrade. The result was considerably much more than I had hoped. It is the best system single step improvement I have ever done!!! The sound stage is more refined in the all three dimensions. The bass is fantastic. The mid and high frequencies were always excellent. It is not easy to say that in some ways there has been much of change with the mid and the high. However it is as if a light has been shone into a dark room to illuminate the contents. Before the upgrade my system was distinguished by the how clean and delicate it was. Some people may have found it a touch too clean or accurate. What was there before is still there, but now there is the tangible addition or real life and energy. Mike called it organic. My advice is that all ML2 Ltd owners should make haste and organise an upgrade with the bypass capacitors. You will staggered at the outcome. John 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 In my previous post I neglected to mention my small stress attack on Sunday. As some of you may know Mike has been for a while developing a spring based isolation platform for speakers. I have some of his springs and he suggested putting my ML2s on to the springs. Getting the springs into the correct position relative to the weight distribution of the speakers so they didn’t fall off and the balance was even was very very scary. I definitely wanted to stop. Forty odd Kgs of speaker wobbling around like jelly was not a good look. Eventually Mike got everything right and the speakers moved up down as required. The outcome was reasonably noticeable and beneficial albeit a bit less than the bypass capacitors. I sometimes wonder how much potential for improvement is there left? I recently installed a serious in the ground earth using a 3 Mt solid copper rod that really works. I could only stand the stress of the springs for a few tracks before I suggested that we remove the springs. The isolation can wait to another time when the stability/wobble matters are solved. I suggested driving star pickets into the floor. When a prototype is available I will try them out. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 This certainly sounds like an upgrade that is worth having. Put me down for one Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I dropped my ML2 Ltds off at the factory on the weekend. May have to pick them up instead of voting in a couple of weeks time (because you know, priorities). Really looking forward to this upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awayward Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Cafad said: I dropped my ML2 Ltds off at the factory on the weekend. May have to pick them up instead of voting in a couple of weeks time (because you know, priorities). Really looking forward to this upgrade. What upgrade are getting done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awayward Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, awayward said: What upgrade are getting done? Should have read the title, upgrade is the Dueland Silver Bypass, please let me know your impression when done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 5 hours ago, awayward said: Should have read the title, upgrade is the Dueland Silver Bypass, please let me know your impression when done. We should be able to go you one better than that. Mike was planning on doing some measuring before and after the upgrade, and some experimenting with another possible upgrade as well. So watch this space. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremrock Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Would this magic little doo-dad also be applicable to other speakers in the range? ML1 Reference for arguments sake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammyboy0_0 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Hi,same question from me too - could this upgrade be undertaken on ML2 reference? What is the order or cost? cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 No reason it can't be I would imagine, but as for cost maybe send Mike a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 11/7/2017 at 12:09 PM, Cafad said: This certainly sounds like an upgrade that is worth having. Put me down for one Mike Now this will be interesting... There are no Dueland cast caps in this pair... Dueland VSF only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 11/7/2017 at 12:00 PM, Assisi said: Forty odd Kgs of speaker wobbling around like jelly was not a good look. On 11/7/2017 at 12:00 PM, Assisi said: I could only stand the stress of the springs for a few tracks before I suggested that we remove the springs. Woose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Rob181 said: Now this will be interesting... There are no Dueland cast caps in this pair... Dueland VSF only... Hmmm, well I'm picking them back up on Saturday so I will let you know what I think shortly after I get them home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 12/5/2017 at 10:21 PM, Rob181 said: Woose... You could have knocked them off with a feather. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) On 12/5/2017 at 9:19 PM, Rob181 said: Now this will be interesting... There are no Dueland cast caps in this pair... Dueland VSF only... They're back! Well, I guess this means that the silver bypass cap upgrade works on VSF's as well. There's definitely more polish on the vocals and a little more "zing" too. Slightly more relaxed top and bottom end (yet with more resolution audible in both, not sure how that could possibly be the case but it is) and they seem even more transparent too. I've briefly tried two DACs this morning and the differences between them are so easy to hear it's difficult to believe. There also seems to be a complete musical inability to notice that there is a back wall to my lounge room as well. I like, I like very much! Two thumbs up for this upgrade Mike. Edited December 9, 2017 by Cafad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob181 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, Cafad said: the differences between them are so easy to hear it's difficult to believe Time for another coffee... Happy you like the change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenehan Audio Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 On 5 December 2017 at 9:19 PM, Rob181 said: Now this will be interesting... There are no Dueland cast caps in this pair... Dueland VSF only... Hi Rob. That pair of Limiteds of yours that Jeff has now use Duelund Cast not VSF. ?. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenehan Audio Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Cafad said: They're back! Well, I guess this means that the silver bypass cap upgrade works on VSF's as well. There's definitely more polish on the vocals and a little more "zing" too. Slightly more relaxed top and bottom end (yet with more resolution audible in both, not sure how that could possibly be the case but it is) and they seem even more transparent too. I've briefly tried two DACs this morning and the differences between them are so easy to hear it's difficult to believe. There also seems to be a complete musical inability to notice that there is a back wall to my lounge room as well. I like, I like very much! Two thumbs up for this upgrade Mike. Hi Jeff . That pair of Limited you have are using Cast Duelund caps . The Cast definitely benefit in a way I would never have predicted. The Value of the bypass cap is only 0.01uf so how Duelund does this is beyond my capacitor knowledge ! ! The positive effect they have had on your Limiteds is exactly the same as what they did to Assisi's Limiteds . The Jury is still out on how they will go over the Duelund VSF ? I know that Rawl99 has tried them and prefers the VSF without the bypass. Regards Mike Lenehan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhobba Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lenehan Audio said: The Jury is still out on how they will go over the Duelund VSF ? I know that Rawl99 has tried them and prefers the VSF without the bypass. Regards Mike Lenehan It's mixed Mike. When you went over to Rawl's place to hear how his tweaking was going, and I was there as well, you correctly identified it was sounding not that good. The culprit turned out to be the Master Tape machine he was using. As you remember he ditched it and went over to a plain old Squeezebox and things were better. When we bypassed the VSF with that everyone, you, Rawl, and others there all agreed it was better. Your words - that's now 3 dimensional. So Rawl for his tweaking replaced the Master Tape machine with a Killer DAC which of course is way better than a Squeezebox. I went on over with high hopes for the bypasses in the new setup - but it wasn't to be - the treble was a bit off. So it seems source dependent, maybe even amp dependent. It could be great with VSF, or not. Someone can take a gamble if they like, but personally if Mike builds some speakers with VSF for me I don't take the chance and don't get them bypassed. The ML5 reference of mine you have down there has no bypasses for that very reason. However I have heard what they do to Jupiter Copper and like it very much - so I am getting them bypassed on my Magnesium Limited's when Mike finalises the crossover. I will be using the Jupiter Copper rather than Duelund VSF. Duelund VSF are dead neutral IMHO - the Jupiter has a very slight euphonic bloom - I like it though. The Magnesium's while having drop dead detail, speed, and transparency - jaw dropping actually - I have heard nothing like it - are slightly cold. I think the slight bloom in the Jupiter's will counter that a bit. They also work extremely well with the Jantzen Superior. Thanks Bill Edited December 10, 2017 by bhobba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffinator Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 I need to get my ML2 Limited to Mike anyway to get the cablepods repaired (one is bent and can’t unscrew). Sounds like you guys here are going to cost me some money on the upgrade... [emoji846] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assisi Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Raffinator said: I need to get my ML2 Limited to Mike anyway to get the cablepods repaired (one is bent and can’t unscrew). Sounds like you guys here are going to cost me some money on the upgrade... Definite value for the expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts