NUC based server build/maintenance question ...

[gregmacc]

Hi all ... I am considering upgrading my current cheapo notebook based server solution to something a bit more audio specific.  Online research has tempted me to have a go at building one myself. The Intel NUC based solutions with integrated HDD file storage look interesting. An appropriately specified Windows 10/JRiver based machine remote controlled from a smartphone app is a popular approach. I’m not great with computers/software but I get the basic idea for these headless systems. For initial setup I presume a monitor, keyboard and mouse would be needed, but what about ongoing system maintenance/file back-up and file additions to the on-board music library etc.? – Ideally I would like to be able to do this remotely via WiFi using a laptop (with some sort of remote desktop/login arrangement ?) . I am almost certain this could be done ... I just don't have a clue how. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[powerav]

Maybe make the Nuc a Roon Rock, much easier to set up and maintain things, only downside is the price of lifetime Roon.

[gregmacc]

Thanks powerav ... Yep, Roon goes way above the budget. I'll just need to do my research in terms of set-up and cataloging etc ... it's all out there somewhere ;-).

As far as artist/album information goes I'm quite happy to continue poking around at websites like All Music and All About Jazz. And I quite like the way JRiver is working on the notebook ... I expect I can just do more of the same on a new music server.

My question here relates more to the logistics of accessing a headless NUC (or similar music storage/player) for maintenance of library contents etc.

How is this actually accomplished in a relatively convenient way? 

We have a router set-up for our house WiFi/networking ... several TVs, desktops, laptops and mobile devices are connected to it. To date I have not made use of any file sharing capabilities. I will need to investigate ... 

[rocl444]

roon rock is server software. you don't need to purchase Roon to use it. it is for a 2 comp set up. i'm thinking of using it on a fanless chinese celeron comp (similar to but imho better than the nuc i had sq wise and a lot cheaper too) . that is serving an sotm sms200ultra via my home network.

 

i used a monitor and keyboard to get it up and running. all the files are visible on the network. you could combine the server and renderer functions in 1 comp which seems to be your plan, but sq isn't as good, although it's a good place to start from.

 

to run it headless and control it from another comp on the network, which i think is what you're asking about, you need some remote desktop software, and adjust the settings so it can connect. a bit complex but do-able. google is your friend! as is sna. good luck with what you decide to do.

[gregmacc]

Thanks rocl444 ... I'm starting to realise that I'm in for a rather steep learning curve here. I'll take your suggestions on board.

"Country: paradise" ... was touring around there last year ... loved it.

[rocl444]

7 minutes ago, gregmacc said:

Thanks rocl444 ... I'm starting to realise that I'm in for a rather steep learning curve here. I'll take your suggestions on board.

"Country: paradise" ... was touring around there last year ... loved it.

cheers - i'm from adelaide originally so i know paradise when i see it. 

 

the NUC seemed like a good option to me a couple of years ago so i got one, nearly new, and used it for a while. very ordinary. so i bought a fanless case for it, pulled it out of the plastic and removed the fan. a bit better but still disappointing considering the cost.

 

then on the local version of ebay i saw an industrial signage computer. a bit old and a bit knocked around but a big step up from the nuc. and 1/2 the price. i had trouble with ethernet drivers for anything other than windows, which i wanted to avoid, so i sold it on and got a version of what was being talked about on the "Building the Ideal(ish) Music Server" thread. a lot better again.

 

and now as in the post above. been playing around with computer audio for about 10yrs and still challenged by it, but finally reached a stage where i can happily listen to it instead of my vinyl. i can happily listen to the vinyl too!

[rocl444]

ps - it doesn't take long to plug in a monitor, keyboard and mouse, do what you need and then unplug.

[Guest scumbag]

2 hours ago, rocl444 said:

roon rock is server software. you don't need to purchase Roon to use it. it is for a 2 comp set up. i'm thinking of using it on a fanless chinese celeron comp (similar to but imho better than the nuc i had sq wise and a lot cheaper too) . that is serving an sotm sms200ultra via my home network.

 

i used a monitor and keyboard to get it up and running. all the files are visible on the network. you could combine the server and renderer functions in 1 comp which seems to be your plan, but sq isn't as good, although it's a good place to start from.

 

to run it headless and control it from another comp on the network, which i think is what you're asking about, you need some remote desktop software, and adjust the settings so it can connect. a bit complex but do-able. google is your friend! as is sna. good luck with what you decide to do.

Confused. You either need a trial of Roon (which will run out eventually) or a paid subscription to get Roon Rock to work. The only thing you can do with Roon Rock is act as a Roon Server and that means you need to be running Roon. In the case of an SMS200 you either run it's own inbuilt UPNP server, or squeezebox use it as a Roon end point. I'm wondering why you would need to integrate a Roon Rock into that infrastructure since the SOTM200 is a fine end point and you can control it directly through Roon on any PC - adding a Roon Rock seems superfluous.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your comments...................

[gregmacc]

2 hours ago, rocl444 said:

ps - it doesn't take long to plug in a monitor, keyboard and mouse, do what you need and then unplug.

Yes, the initial setup (software loading and tweaking, library installation etc.) doesn't phase me ... as you say, plug in controllers and monitor, do what's required and unplug. It's the ongoing library additions and maintenance that's got me wondering. 

With my current notebook I simply load a bunch of new album folders into it manually ... transferred from another computer using a USB stick ... JRiver knows where to find them on the hard-drive, and aside from the occasional  minor library/tagging glitch (operator error every time), all is good. Backups are similarly err, "manual" ... don't ask.

I've had less than zero experience with any sort of networking. I mean, I can "see" the other  machines on the network, but I've never actually moved anything around or opened a file that wasn't resident on the particular computer that I've been working from.

Yes I am keen on having server and renderer in the one box (in the listening room) at least initially.

I guess I'm having trouble conceptualising how maintenance tasks will be performed without the convenience of dragging and dropping on the notebook's monitor. One small learning step at a time I suppose. Lots of googling right?   

[rocl444]

7 hours ago, scumbag said:

Confused. You either need a trial of Roon (which will run out eventually) or a paid subscription to get Roon Rock to work. The only thing you can do with Roon Rock is act as a Roon Server and that means you need to be running Roon. In the case of an SMS200 you either run it's own inbuilt UPNP server, or squeezebox use it as a Roon end point. I'm wondering why you would need to integrate a Roon Rock into that infrastructure since the SOTM200 is a fine end point and you can control it directly through Roon on any PC - adding a Roon Rock seems superfluous.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your comments...................

i probably am. i only came across rock a couple of days ago. it sounded like a good, lightweight, server os which is what i would like to use in place of windows 10. so it is only for use with roon? bummer

[rocl444]

6 hours ago, gregmacc said:

Yes, the initial setup (software loading and tweaking, library installation etc.) doesn't phase me ... as you say, plug in controllers and monitor, do what's required and unplug. It's the ongoing library additions and maintenance that's got me wondering. 

With my current notebook I simply load a bunch of new album folders into it manually ... transferred from another computer using a USB stick ... JRiver knows where to find them on the hard-drive, and aside from the occasional  minor library/tagging glitch (operator error every time), all is good. Backups are similarly err, "manual" ... don't ask.

I've had less than zero experience with any sort of networking. I mean, I can "see" the other  machines on the network, but I've never actually moved anything around or opened a file that wasn't resident on the particular computer that I've been working from.

Yes I am keen on having server and renderer in the one box (in the listening room) at least initially.

I guess I'm having trouble conceptualising how maintenance tasks will be performed without the convenience of dragging and dropping on the notebook's monitor. One small learning step at a time I suppose. Lots of googling right?   

yes, i remember using usb sticks. it seemed ok as i could get my head around it and it was logical. but i am afraid that you will need to get into networking. it really is easier.

 

try opening up some folders in those other machines you can see with your current setup. can you do with the mouse what you do with the usb stick? if not you need to go into settings and enable your comps to let it happen, it'll make your head ache at times.

 

try and learn as much as you can with your current setup before you change anything else.

[gregmacc]

3 hours ago, rocl444 said:

try and learn as much as you can with your current setup before you change anything else.

... indeed ...

 

[Bunno77]

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/ca-academy/the-definitive-guide-to-roon-optimized-core-kit-rock-r652/

 

[kukynas]

@gregmacc yes,  you will need monitor/mouse/keyboard for initial set up and installation of all of your apps, remote control is easy as well as maintenance, I'm using teamviewer between my main PC and streamer without any issues

[mattjtaylor2809]

Hi All,

 

So....are the NUC's still the way to go or the fanless Celeron based mini PC's? I currently have my ROON core on the my home iMac & was thinking about moving it to a NAS but I just don't think I need the storage capacity & the hassle so I'm looking into a ROON ROCK type of system + external storage that I can add to my network freeing up my iMac.

 

Any suggestions?....I'm not that tech savvy so it will need to be easy to set up & maintain etc.

 

Cheers

Matt

[Guest scumbag]

NUC's are a more cost effective way of getting a solution though of course they are not fanless - the media-centre audio centred PC's seem quite expensive. On my NUC I set the BIOS to run the fan at a low setting - it's inaudible to me. I am in an office so we have good airconditioning of course. I personally wouldn't recommend a Celeron solution for a ROCK and indeed I don't think Roon recommend this either. From memory their min's spec is an I3. I got an I5 (latest Gen) NUC with 8Gb RAM so that I could do resampling and convolution if needed. In terms of storage, I bought an external 2Tb hard drive that gives quite good performance - I am not getting any dropouts or dummy spits. You could also go for a powered external drive which is bigger but probably faster / cheaper in comparison.

I did grab a moderately priced upgraded power supply, just in case. I don't know if that might have any effect on sound quality but it was cheap and wards off Audio-Nervosa.

 

 

[mattjtaylor2809]

Thanks Scumbag (Mark),

I certainly don't want to move too far away from what's recommended via the ROON discussion boards but I did read in this post that the fanless Celeron based mini pc's were worth a look at but thinking about it more, my listening room does get quite hot in the Summer so maybe a fanless system isn't a smart move for me?

[Guest scumbag]

4 minutes ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Thanks Scumbag (Mark),

I certainly don't want to move too far away from what's recommended via the ROON discussion boards but I did read in this post that the fanless Celeron based mini pc's were worth a look at but thinking about it more, my listening room does get quite hot in the Summer so maybe a fanless system isn't a smart move for me?

Fanless would be OK if there is a lot of heatsinking. I think Celerons would be safely rate to about 45degrees (I've got a crap memory so that might be wrong). That's within the realms of managable heat from a decent finned heat sink I think. The Celeron thing worries me more in regards to performance. I believe Roon is a pretty efficent Linux OS but even still, adding things like DSP and trying to play and scan music files at the same time might severely degrade performance. There are fanless kits available for the I3, I5 and I7 NUC's - there are a few brands.

The flip side is that a dedicated fanless PC will most likely have other measures in place to mitigate internal noise and so forth so you might argue that performance will be much better. But you will pay top dollar or it