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Primare Knob

How to handle multi Subwoofer setup

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1 minute ago, Primare Knob said:

What would the suggestion be for subwoofer placement? Technicly my front speakers go down to 29Hz -3dB

Both in the front of the room.

Both in the front corners of the room

One in the front one in the back

Both in the back of the room

Placement is irrelevant the way I see it with whatever tools you use.

Good/best placement is an advantage regardless of what tools you use.

FWIW I placed mine in the front corners with an 80Hz crossover.

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5 minutes ago, Primare Knob said:

 

What would the suggestion be for subwoofer placement? Technicly my front speakers go down to 29Hz -3dB

Both in the front of the room.

Both in the front corners of the room

One in the front one in the back

Both in the back of the room

Have you measured them inroom ? With a quoted 29hz if legit in room should easily be 20hz or lower so worth measuring. But also will mean more effort in integration 

 

placement of sub is supreme importance again here if have measured where work best will have your answer :)

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2 minutes ago, Primare Knob said:

Can't it do the same with a single channel? Or will this not work with integrating the low end of the front speakers. I would like to bypass any AD for non LFE/Low end frequency.

It can do the same with a single channel. But then you're probably not really integrating the front speakers.

And the MiniDSP 2X4HD as an optical input by the way although I firmly believe an AD conversion via analog inputs is nothing to worry about.

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2 minutes ago, Satanica said:

It can do the same with a single channel. But then you're probably not really integrating the front speakers.

And the MiniDSP 2X4HD as an optical input by the way although I firmly believe an AD conversion via analog inputs is nothing to worry about.

Have to try the record Toslink output of the PrePro and see what it spits out, since it can't do any 8 channel HD formats. But the miniDSP is looking like my best option anyway.

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An excellent side effect which I was not expecting of turning frequencies under 80Hz into a mono signal for dual subwoofers rather then stereo subwoofers is that it cleared up rattle noises in and outside the house.

Proper time alignment may have helped with this too.

But I don't really have the technical knowledge to understand the big reduction in house vibrations and rattle sounds.

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That would very much be a welcome improvement. I really dislike all vibrations in a room.

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24 minutes ago, Satanica said:

An excellent side effect which I was not expecting of turning frequencies under 80Hz into a mono signal for dual subwoofers rather then stereo subwoofers is that it cleared up rattle noises in and outside the house.

Proper time alignment may have helped with this too.

But I don't really have the technical knowledge to understand the big reduction in house vibrations and rattle sounds.

Would most likely be a reduction of excited room modes, that may have resonated with the windows, usually around 30hz

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If you are considering using a Mini-DSP, then have a look at this:

I used MSO to optimise my dual subs for both the HT and 2 channel setups. 

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The guys have given some really good tips here. 

Overall if I could throw my coin into the mix I'd be mindful of your main/sub and LFE crossover point. 

Regardless of cone size of the bass drivers in your main speakers remember the LFE channel is meant to be 10dB higher than all other channels. 

Reason why 80hz is a general standard is it helps retain impact across the bass spectrum issued to the LFE channel. Your 10" drivers in your mains no doubt can do 29,30,50hz etc but they won't be +10dB in that region. 

In movies there is a lot of punch and thud area between 55and 120hz. So you don't want to deprive your overall listening experience missing out on the region by crossing over your LFE at say 40hz or even your mains at 40hz... 

My mains have 15" bass drivers and they are processed full range (Large) however my LFE is crossed at 80hz and it does not sound right set any lower 

 

Hope that helps

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1 hour ago, Neilsy said:

My mains have 15" bass drivers and they are processed full range (Large)...

Huge for any main speaker, what are they?

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I'll have to get back to this after the holidays. Might as well order the miniDSP and bring some reading material so I can start on this once I am back.

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2 hours ago, Neilsy said:

The guys have given some really good tips here. 

Overall if I could throw my coin into the mix I'd be mindful of your main/sub and LFE crossover point. 

Regardless of cone size of the bass drivers in your main speakers remember the LFE channel is meant to be 10dB higher than all other channels. 

Reason why 80hz is a general standard is it helps retain impact across the bass spectrum issued to the LFE channel. Your 10" drivers in your mains no doubt can do 29,30,50hz etc but they won't be +10dB in that region. 

In movies there is a lot of punch and thud area between 55and 120hz. So you don't want to deprive your overall listening experience missing out on the region by crossing over your LFE at say 40hz or even your mains at 40hz... 

My mains have 15" bass drivers and they are processed full range (Large) however my LFE is crossed at 80hz and it does not sound right set any lower 

 

Hope that helps

one of the reasons I would be still suggesting a LFE channel be maintained. by all means make mains full range. but no need for them to be doing LFE for very reasons you mentioned. and I would be crossing the LFE channel at 80hz as well. the dedicated LFE channel which is there for most mixes tends to have info right upto 120hz however further up there is going to be no bother for most speakers to achieve :)

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10 minutes ago, :) al said:

one of the reasons I would be still suggesting a LFE channel be maintained. by all means make mains full range. but no need for them to be doing LFE for very reasons you mentioned. and I would be crossing the LFE channel at 80hz as well. the dedicated LFE channel which is there for most mixes tends to have info right upto 120hz however further up there is going to be no bother for most speakers to achieve :)

Or you could just mix the LFE into the Left and Right Channels and crossover to the subs at 80Hz.

This method will increase your system's headroom, no longer do the mains have to bother themselves with the really low stuff.

Edited by Satanica

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On 19/10/2017 at 2:42 PM, Satanica said:

Huge for any main speaker, what are they?

Sorry slow reply..  They are Krix Theatrix 

http://www.krix.com.au/theatrix/

 

15" bass/mid up to 400hz, external managed crossover to 

6.5" horn loaded mid, then built in crossover to compression driver for highs, again horn loaded. Serves L, C, R behind my AT screen

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I have settled for my subwoofer placement and I used the "golden ratio" 1:1'618

It might be a bit unorthodox, but this seems to produce the best result by ear. I tried the 1/4 room width placement but the subs have 2 passive radiators which when placed in line with each other produces some rumbling side effects. When placed in line with the speaker smack bang against the wall, the radiator facing the wall is producing some rumbling and harsh side effects.

There is still a lot of work to do. Masters and Commanders the canon's scene sound rather good, but the Start Trek intro is nothing but unpleasant rumbling of noise.b9e49e3055914ca6c6a4c38444437748.jpg

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As a recap to get a better understanding before I dig in.

If my subs are placed at equal distance from my LP, that doesn't automatically mean that their signal are time aligned?

The only thing that could this is a miniDSP or a Processor that can set induvidual timing on two subs?

If time alignment happens to be within limits would I need the miniDSP if I:
Only looking at integrating subs with movies.
Have the ability to software EQ each individual sub and adjust level and phase. (PBK kit)
Can software EQ both subs together. (REW /JRiver)

To integrate two subs with my mains I would automatically look at a miniDSP or a processor that can handle 2 individual subs and set high pass filters?

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19 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

As a recap to get a better understanding before I dig in.

If my subs are placed at equal distance from my LP, that doesn't automatically mean that their signal are time aligned?

The only thing that could this is a miniDSP or a Processor that can set induvidual timing on two subs?

If time alignment happens to be within limits would I need the miniDSP if I:
Only looking at integrating subs with movies.
Have the ability to software EQ each individual sub and adjust level and phase. (PBK kit)
Can software EQ both subs together. (REW /JRiver)

To integrate two subs with my mains I would automatically look at a miniDSP or a processor that can handle 2 individual subs and set high pass filters?

If two subs were exactly the same distance from the listening position then I think they're time aligned. That's how mine have measured. 

 

MiniDSP will do the job for you. 

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