Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) Hi, I'm strongly thinking about grabbing some Dueland DCA12GA or DCA16GA cable soon to use as speaker cable. I was originally looking at the 16GA version but given the sensitivity of my speakers (87dB/w/m) and the power output of my amplifier I though the larger amount of copper might be better. BTW, those of you who believe that all speaker cable sounds the same, keep moving, there are other threads out there you can read. Anyway I have a few things that I was wondering if anyone had any input on: - Can anyone give me their thoughts on the sound of the Dueland cable (and what gauge did you use?). I've read a lot of stuff about "tone" but that does raise small red flags in my mind as it implies some alteration of the sound signature. My real aim here is to get a sound that is expressive in the midrange. But I like my cake and eating it too so I really would like some decent bass. I had another SNA member over to my listening room this week. I have my Anti-cable 2.1 speaker cables there and also new (to me) Atlas Hyper 2.0. I started our brief listening session with the Atlas cables on and played a few tracks. The midrange is quite elevated with these cables, which I admit, I really like (is an elevated midrange "real"?), but, this is at the expense of tipping the frequency response so that bass is greatly reduced. I then swapped over my Anti-cables - bass back and midrange and treble was much less prominent. I think the other SNA member was quite taken aback by the dramatic change but as I said, my speakers are quite revealing. If I could get the bass of the Anti-Cables and the nice detailed midrange of the Atlas Hyper I'd be very happy. - Has anyone tried the AWG12 and the AWG16 by any chance? I know that's a long shot but I have heard that the AWG12 is darker (more bass?) and the AWG16 has a brighter midrange and treble (no surprises there I guess). - I want to use spades at the end. Yes, if you've read any of the internet raves about the Dueland cable they say "don't use terminations" etc. Well, I ideally would like to use some nice solid copper spades despite the commonly received wisdom but of course I will try one side WITH the spades and the other without to directly compare the level of detail, bass etc. Every little detail makes some change for better or worse and my system and speakers are resolving enough to show small things like this. My question is, would it be better / necessary to strip the tin off the ends of cable where they are inserted into the spade connectors? If I do remove the tin, is it possible to remove it through physical abrasion or would some sort of chemical or heat treatment get rid of the tin (tin melts at a lower temp than copper so I could use a soldering iron to get it up to a sufficient temperature perhaps). Anyway, any advise would be great. If anyone has used any of the Dueland tinned then I'd be appreciative of your thoughts. If you have a set and you hate them, let me know and I might take them off your hands Edited November 20, 2017 by scumbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I used the 16awg, running ML1's via a triode strapped EL34 amp that might be rated around 20w - 23w. I haven't used the 12awg. Sound wise for myself in my system compared to the default Neotech UP-OCC cable that isn't too shabby. The Duelund cables had better tonality to instruments and vocals right across the range, and very nuanced with nice layering that showed more variations in each sound whether they were drums, violin, piano or vocals. I used the low mass saw tooth banana type connectors or whatever they are called, and noticed no sound penalty compared to bare wire and I initially tried them bare wire. I would be interested if someone compared the 16awg and 12awg as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I don't subscribe to the 'using cables as tone controls' as the two things are completely different. If it sounds more natural and more correct it doesn't sound like when using tone controls to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Noum said: I don't subscribe to the 'using cables as tone controls' as the two things are completely different. If it sounds more natural and more correct it doesn't sound like when using tone controls to my ears. Perfect. That's exactly what I was after! My fear was, as you said, that "tone" was a code word for altering the balance of the sound. Good hear it's more to do with richness. It's also good to hear that using good connectors at the end didn't hurt the sound (I didn't think it would but has to ask!). So the I am guessing you didn't strip the wires in any way at the ends? That's a nice DIY build too. Good stuff. That's encouraged me to proceed. I am still wavering between the 12AWG and 16AWG. The slightly brighter midrange appeals in the 16AWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) Depends on the connectors i think, if not low mass and instead large high mass brass ones I wouldn't like to place a bet But that's my take and why the low mass ones i used. Strip the ends? i stripped a little of the oil impregnated dielectric (spelling?) to get a connection/solder. but if you mean strip the tin plating from the copper core of the strands? I think that would be very difficult and counter productive to what Duelund aimed for. Obviously that one has me confused !2 awg you might like better, and I might, but It's an unknown without trying. So lets hope someone with experience with both pops up Edited October 15, 2017 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobbyD Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, scumbag said: BTW, those of you who believe that all speaker cable sounds the same, keep moving, there are other threads out there you can read. Gold !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Noum said: Depends on the connectors i think, if not low mass and instead large high mass brass ones I wouldn't like to place a bet But that's my take and why the low mass ones i used. Strip the ends? i stripped a little of the oil impregnated dielectric (spelling?) to get a connection/solder. but if you mean strip the tin plating from the copper core of the strands? I think that would be very difficult and counter productive to what Duelund aimed for. Obviously that one has me confused !2 awg you might like better, and I might, but It's an unknown without trying. So lets hope someone with experience with both pops up Sorry, I meant the tin. I guess that does defeat the purpose of the cable as you put it. I might have to bite the bullet and get me some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 If you are using a high powered amplifier pushing a fair bit of current then maybe 12 might be better? I really don't know there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=11559 "I also noticed right away that the cooked DCA12GA had a more convincing portrayal of tempos, so that was a definite plus as well." (comparing 12AWG to the 16AWG). He's using a cable cooker to run the cable in. Another heresy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, Noum said: If you are using a high powered amplifier pushing a fair bit of current then maybe 12 might be better? I really don't know there. The Pass Labs is very high current yes. And as I said in my first post, the speakers are not especially sensitive. I think 12AWG is looking more and more the way to go. I found this as well: "I really like what I’m hearing from the DCA16GA as speaker cables on my Altec A7’s and Harbeth Super HL5’s. I suspect what will work best for you will depend on your speakers, the rest of your equipment, and your personal tastes. The DCA12GA is warmer and richer sounding, the DCA16GA is more vibrant in the midrange and more extended sounding in the high-frequencies." I am guessing the "warm" and "rich" is a more pronounced bass and lower midrange region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Duelund bakes them themselves to dry the oil impregnation. Cable cooker? Burn in? Meh, I just listen while they do their thing, but they do seem to settle in over the fist few dozen hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Yeah, I don't know if the warmer and richer is all to do with frequency response. Maybe the bass will be fuller...more extended and that could be a frequency response thing *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronal Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 If using the 12AWG cable unterminated, would the cable be thin enough to go through the holes in amp and speaker terminals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronal Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Noum said: I used the 16awg, running ML1's via a triode strapped EL34 amp that might be rated around 20w - 23w. I haven't used the 12awg. Sound wise for myself in my system compared to the default Neotech UP-OCC cable that isn't too shabby. The Duelund cables had better tonality to instruments and vocals right across the range, and very nuanced with nice layering that showed more variations in each sound whether they were drums, violin, piano or vocals. I used the low mass saw tooth banana type connectors or whatever they are called, and noticed no sound penalty compared to bare wire and I initially tried them bare wire. I would be interested if someone compared the 16awg and 12awg as well Did you buy your cables locally or from overseas? I notice there is a range of sliver foil cables as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) I made them using Duelund Tin Plated wire from Parts connection for the wire. Aurealis Audio sells cables using this same wire and are well made (does a better job than I do) and very affordable if you don't like constructing cables. Might even go that way myself next time. Matt @MattyW here grabbed his from Geoff and is very happy with them. To avoid this that was the second tissues, sucker bleed like Trump lies. Edited October 15, 2017 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, bronal said: Did you buy your cables locally or from overseas? I notice there is a range of sliver foil cables as well. I haven't bought mine yet BTW- I'm getting them from Hificollective in the UK. The silver stuff looks nice but is very expensive. Edited October 15, 2017 by scumbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) The silver stuff had my attention till they came out with the Tin Plated Copper in cotton/oil, It's a replica of the Western Electric vintage wire that was always raved about. From what I have read by users of both the Duelund stuff is a bit better than the WE wire. Edit: haven't used the silver stuff myself. Edited October 15, 2017 by Muon N' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I was looking at this - https://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/ag9999_silk_covered.html the 0.9mm is about 19AWG so 2 per positive and per negative would be about 16awg. A bit dearer than the tinned copper but really well priced. I guess the hype about the "tone" is what got me interested in the Dueland. Dueland does have a formidable reputation in the capacitor world so they know their sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Muon N' Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Can't remember if Geoff at Aurealis sells the wire for DIY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Yes, I'm delighted with the Dueland cables I got from Geoff. 2m braided cable. More bass and really filled out the system. Music sounds more layered and it really got my foot tapping again. I can wholeheartedly recommend it and it's fantastic value. Geoff always has fantastic gear at great prices, and I've had many enjoyable and enlightening conversations while I've been there. I have some Western Ellectric tinned copper 11GA cable coming for my other systems. I don't expect it to be as good as the Dueland though it'll be a step up from what I currently have on that system (OFC from Bunnings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MattyW said: Yes, I'm delighted with the Dueland cables I got from Geoff. 2m braided cable. More bass and really filled out the system. Music sounds more layered and it really got my foot tapping again. I can wholeheartedly recommend it and it's fantastic value. Geoff always has fantastic gear at great prices, and I've had many enjoyable and enlightening conversations while I've been there. I have some Western Ellectric tinned copper 11GA cable coming for my other systems. I don't expect it to be as good as the Dueland though it'll be a step up from what I currently have on that system (OFC from Bunnings) Did you get the twisted pair 16AWG or the 4 wire braid16AWG? Edited October 15, 2017 by scumbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Range Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Geoff made a custom pair of speaker cables for me specifically for the Pass / First Watt M2 amp However they were not the Dueland so I can’t comment for this thread But I can lend them to you for an appraisal because you are local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, scumbag said: Did you get the twisted pair 16AWG or the 4 wire braid16AWG? The 4 wire braid. Sounds incredible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acg Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Geoff does sell the wire...I would not bother buying from overseas because he is competitive and local. I made my order last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scumbag Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I enjoy a challenge. Or I'm a masochist. Hard to tell the difference with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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