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Davros59

Kenwood kp-9010 tonearm lift

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Hi All,

 

I have just taken delivery of a Kenwood KP-9010. I love these beasts, I also have a KP-7010 and a KP-1100 (soon). I know I don't need to tell anyone here what happens when you get hooked on one particular brand or model ;)

The 9010 has just arrived and essentially it's in beautiful condition and generally speaking operates flawlessly. you know there's a "but" coming...

But, the tonearm lift mechanism is not working as it should. My 7010 lifts and lowers very smoothly but this 9010 drops the tonearm like a stone. It's less than subtle.

I've read through a service manual for a similar turntable but there's nothing specific about the mechanical servicing of this component.

I'm just wondering if anyone on Stereo.net has had any experience with this particular fault on these Kenwoods or might have some suggestions please?

And I'm sorry there's no pics, in my excitement yesterday when it arrived I spent all my time setting up the tonearm, headshell and cartridge and then listening to records I simply forgot. I'll post some pics tonight, I promise.

 

 

 

 

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Guest Hensa

I think you need to add some silicon oil to the rod that adjusts the height of the lifter. There should be a grub screw (or small hex bolt) that you loosen to raise or lower the arm lifter bar - loosen this and lift the bar as high as it goes and retighten, then wipe some silicon oil (try 20K - 30K cSt) on the vertical rod of the lifter, loosen the grub screw and raise and lower it a few times, then repeat. By this stage there should be enough silicon oil on the rod to slow the descent of the arm so test to see this is the case and if not, reapply. When all done, just reset the height you need and tighten the grub screw. While not on the Kenwood, I have done this on numerous other Japanese direct drives and it has worked every time.

 

Great turntables by the way!

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Thanks Hensa, I tried as you suggested but no luck. I think I’m going to have to attempt to get this thing apart.

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I took the plunge and dissected the turntable. I have to admit it was thoroughly enjoyable and it’s quite an interesting construction.

So here’s a few shots.d2611f7294eee813b4b122b3819a6321.jpg

First look inside, how cool is that chassis?

 

531ed647539aa9fcc062ac6e6a4f27dc.jpg

That’s the lift mechanism solenoid. It’s attached to a brass rod, through a bush which is spring loaded to assist lift.

 

2192d1980047b76a3d79abe7b3d3e030.jpg

I had to remove the solenoid support frame. This was tricky, the tonearm wiring runs through the same support. But eventually revealed the brass damper which controls the tonearm lowering action.

 

49c425764cc1afe7d81791845edf55e6.jpg

This is the brass damper shaft. I believe the machined grooves are meant to be the reservoir for the damping “fluid”, I guess grease.

 

18c4ddf3da2c3ac1e0f9014c235fddb2.jpg

I’ve loaded these up with Vaseline, it’s all I had.

 

The result is OK but not as good as it could be. Either the damping mechanism has worn excessively or I need something slightly more viscous than Vaseline.

I’m hoping the latter.

 

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@Davros59  I've seen these turntables on Hi-Fi Do and have always been curious about them. They seem to fly under the radar wrt Pioneer or Denon DD units. I've searched the net and some folks are big fans of these Kenwood decks.

 

I don't want to derail your thread but have a few questions..  Pls PM if you want don't want to divert too far from the original post.

  • Do the Trio turntables predate the Kenwood's? Is one brand better or more desirable than the other? 
  • I'd be after something that is auto return or auto lift. Is that feature specific to a particular model?
  • I assume the higher the model number the better deck ie. 9xxx is better than 7xxxx. Are there exceptions to this? Which one should a person go after?
  • Finally, if you don't mind me asking what did the 9010 cost landed in Aus?

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Beautiful TT, from that halcyon period, mid-70s to mid/late 80s, of great Japanese hifi.

They don't make them like this......

 

Is the headshell standard, or an Orsonic AV1/AV11?

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Edited by Owen Y

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Guest Hensa
16 hours ago, charlie_bird said:

@Davros59  I've seen these turntables on Hi-Fi Do and have always been curious about them. They seem to fly under the radar wrt Pioneer or Denon DD units. I've searched the net and some folks are big fans of these Kenwood decks.

 

I don't want to derail your thread but have a few questions..  Pls PM if you want don't want to divert too far from the original post.

  • Do the Trio turntables predate the Kenwood's? Is one brand better or more desirable than the other? 
  • I'd be after something that is auto return or auto lift. Is that feature specific to a particular model?
  • I assume the higher the model number the better deck ie. 9xxx is better than 7xxxx. Are there exceptions to this? Which one should a person go after?
  • Finally, if you don't mind me asking what did the 9010 cost landed in Aus?

 I can try and answer some of these questions, though I'm not the OP - I hope he doesn't mind my 2 bob's worth!:)

  • Trio bought Kenwood in the mid-80's but before that were separate companies. The Kenwood branding was more internationally known than Trio so most components were branded Kenwood after the merger.
  • Most of the Kenwood decks have the auto-lift function but you'd need to check individual specs to confirm and to note whether they are just auto-lift or full return. The higher-end decks just had auto-lift.
  • Usually the higher number equated to higher up the scale with some exceptions depending on the year of release. For example, the KP-1100 preceded the KP-9010 by a year or two. They are essentially the same turntable but the numbering could lead you to believe the 1100 is higher up the ladder when it actually isn't. Also note that for the US market there were some different numbering schemes. The KD-990 in the US, for example, is the same as the Japanese KP-7010.
  • The 9010 is one of the more expensive Kenwood decks. Interestingly, you can get the 1100 for 15 - 20% less than the 9010 despite it being identical, albeit one or two years earlier than the 9010. I would estimate around $1200 landed for a 9010 in good condition. A KP-1100 might be around $1K.

They are very, very good turntables and would give up nothing to similar era Pioneers or Denons. In fact, the KP-1100/9010 has one of the highest signal to noise ratios (over 90dB) of any turntable of the 80's.

 

Edited by Hensa

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Guest Hensa
3 hours ago, Owen Y said:

Beautiful TT, from that halcyon period, mid-70s to mid/late 80s, of great Japanese hifi.

They don't make them like this......

 

Is the headshell standard, or an Orsonic AV1/AV11?

 

Cheers, Owen

http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

The headshell looks like a Grace...

 

Grace.jpg.5f0f823e48ffe7dbf09bfa79290e70a7.jpg

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@Davros59 Thanks for the PM and helping to answer my questions.

 

@Hensa Thanks to you for the info. Its pretty clear to me now. 

 

I've been thinking about upgrading my second turntable and I keep coming back and looking at these Kenwood's on Hi-Fi Do. I just need to find the space and the money.. 

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Spot on, it’s a Grace HS-3. I even have the original box. 1fa1229b72e654b30b87379544047e8a.jpg

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I have the KD-700 and its a magnificent semi auto, so I am sure you are on to something here- althogh it might not be semi auto

In the 70's a hifi importer told me that was Kenwood originally but had to become trio in the west because of the British Kenwood company (which we all know I think) that makes Kitchen appliances 

at some stage it went back to being Kenwood

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I also have a KP-9010, but never had an issue with the lift function. Apart from that, hope you're enjoying the TT ! Is there much of a sound difference between the 9010 and the 7010 ?

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On 15/10/2017 at 8:52 PM, Davros59 said:

I took the plunge and dissected the turntable. I have to admit it was thoroughly enjoyable and it’s quite an interesting construction.

So here’s a few shots.d2611f7294eee813b4b122b3819a6321.jpg

First look inside, how cool is that chassis?

 

531ed647539aa9fcc062ac6e6a4f27dc.jpg

That’s the lift mechanism solenoid. It’s attached to a brass rod, through a bush which is spring loaded to assist lift.

 

2192d1980047b76a3d79abe7b3d3e030.jpg

I had to remove the solenoid support frame. This was tricky, the tonearm wiring runs through the same support. But eventually revealed the brass damper which controls the tonearm lowering action.

 

49c425764cc1afe7d81791845edf55e6.jpg

This is the brass damper shaft. I believe the machined grooves are meant to be the reservoir for the damping “fluid”, I guess grease.

 

18c4ddf3da2c3ac1e0f9014c235fddb2.jpg

I’ve loaded these up with Vaseline, it’s all I had.

 

The result is OK but not as good as it could be. Either the damping mechanism has worn excessively or I need something slightly more viscous than Vaseline.

I’m hoping the latter.

 

you need more viscous than vaseline.

i have the right silicon for this lift . PM me .

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A bit late to the party, but since my first post on this stream ( see above) i have joined the club and aquire a kp 990

what a machine!! For making music, with a high mass arm suiting those classic low compliance MCs 

after using a denon103 i am awarinh a venerable FR1/3 which is hopefully being rebuilt by Garrit.

next up will be to work out if a heavier counterweight will bakance out the outrageously venerable FR7 by mr Ikeda. I would like to find a low compliance MM that works on it too

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For repairs and advice there is a guy in Mittagong ( Willowvale actually) who knows these really well,

he is alwayssellling Japanese direct drives on eBay, 

his eBay name is directdrive or similar

 

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Davros59- THANK YOU for this thread!  I have a KP-1100 with a similar issue. We were able to dampen the travel externally at the solenoid "paddle" but I was unaware of the damper shaft under the solenoid. What viscosity of oil did you end up using? I have 50k RC oil here but I think Vaseline is thicker (update-it seems so-I found where it is 64k viscosity)... I know I can get up to 300k oil. I ordered 100k and 125k from Amazon here as they were just a few dollars. I would rather take it back apart and fix it at the source if the thicker oil fixed your problem. Please advise and thank you again for the information!

Edited by captmark
new info

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I have 2 of these KD decks (why are people using kp?). Never had a problem with the arm lift mech. and my first KD was very badly packed for shipping from Germany and arrived with one corner of the plinth smashed, I negotiated a price drop down to £120 - it still played perfectly.

 

It's worth checking out posts on Vinyl Engine, particularly those by Hugo. The bearing assembly is something else - a rod of special steel alloy which is rifled and sits on a huge nut which is highly polished as is the rod. The tolerance between the rod and the steel tube in  which it is situated is so tight that, any tighter and it would seize up, this is demonstrated by how hard it is to remove the rod to clean off the old Slick 50 oil and apply a new coating - don't use grease. Do not 'adjust' this nut , it is factory set. The life of the bearing assembly can truly be said to be 'indeterminate' what a difference to the totally inferior archaic likes of Garrard et al.

 

The silent operation of a lot of Japanese superdecks like the KDs is down to the bearing assemblies and the type of motors used. 

 

Kenwood employed top flight engineers - the PCB is really easy to remove, very little desoldering is nec. to achieve this. the TX is connected by 3 wires which are fixed to steel rods on the PCB  mechanically (very old school this), on reassembly it is impossible to use this method and the wires must be soldered.

 

I am about to replace all the electrolytic caps on both decks. I'm using Panasonic FC caps, cost about £4 per deck.

 

The arm is so well designed and set-up is a doddle. I would not describe the arm as high mass but medium. By changing the aluminium slab of a headshell it is easy to reduce the arm mass to suit modern cartridges or something like the Pickering 7500S LOMM.

 

Why anyone would want to spend serious money on any of the modern decks is beyond me - your paying for technically inferior eye candy. Non of them has the really useful arm lift at end-of-side or motor turn-off. 

 

If I had known that Kenwood were going to scrap the tooling and production facilities for these decks at the end of the 80s, the scrap price would have been negligable and to re-introduce these decks now would mean a huge backlog of orders and very healthy profit margins.

 

Good examples go for around €800 and that includes a superb gimbal arm - a steal at the price.

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19 hours ago, Southerly said:

I have 2 of these KD decks (why are people using kp?).

 

1D17F51A-6726-472D-AFE0-F18FD8794EA3.jpeg

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Kenwood obviously used different designations in different markets, in the northern hemisphere it was KD.  Goatboy - very accurate description by Bill Hicks, definitely deserves a like that.

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On 13/10/2017 at 7:31 AM, Davros59 said:

Hi All,

 

I have just taken delivery of a Kenwood KP-9010. I love these beasts, I also have a KP-7010 and a KP-1100 (soon). I know I don't need to tell anyone here what happens when you get hooked on one particular brand or model ;)

The 9010 has just arrived and essentially it's in beautiful condition and generally speaking operates flawlessly. you know there's a "but" coming...

But, the tonearm lift mechanism is not working as it should. My 7010 lifts and lowers very smoothly but this 9010 drops the tonearm like a stone. It's less than subtle.

I've read through a service manual for a similar turntable but there's nothing specific about the mechanical servicing of this component.

I'm just wondering if anyone on Stereo.net has had any experience with this particular fault on these Kenwoods or might have some suggestions please?

And I'm sorry there's no pics, in my excitement yesterday when it arrived I spent all my time setting up the tonearm, headshell and cartridge and then listening to records I simply forgot. I'll post some pics tonight, I promise.

 

 

 

 

Hi 

Just reading your story here from a while back, hope things worked out ok?

I've got a 7010,  I see you've got one and a 9010 as well, nice!

Beautiful decks, when I bought mine a few years back I was chasing a 9010, reading here tonight tho I can't remember now what the differences were? Owning both I presume you know?Checking the net now there's very little info. Was the 7010 virtually identical just with minor cosmetic differences? 

Cheers

Tricky.

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