TT-PSU 'Upgrade'

[Gijo1977]

Hi All,

 

I thought I would post a story about my Rega TTPSU, the wall pack noise and the solution I am embarking on...

 

So after a couple of weeks living with my RP6 at the start of the year, I noticed an audible 'buzz' coming from behind/within the side board I call a stereo cabinet. I did a big search on the web to see what could be causing my issue? The first item of help I located was a way to fix the buzz that a TTPSU causes through the speakers, due to no/poor earthing on the case thing.... Great, a little earthing cable test did reduce the noise floor through the speakers, but this fixed a problem I didnt know I had, and the other buzz continued. Boo!

 

I did some further isolation testing etc.. and determined it is actually the wall wart or plug pack supplied with the TTPSU that was the culprit. Even when removed from the power conditioner and plugged directly into  another power point, the buzz was there, it didn't even need to have a load to make it noisy. Oh well, looks like I needed a new wall pack from the local Rega supplier, $55 and a few days later problem solved.............. Nope! The Gotcha moment: plugged the new pack into the wall, had a listen, and boom (or more to the point, Buzzzzzzz) The noise was less, but still there, in a brand new Rega wall pack. It went back to Rega for a refund, and I continued to live with the buzzy cabinet (which of course the cabinet amplifies the buzz)

 

A few months on and many nights researching the options, again and again.... I have determined there are very few replacement 24VAC plug packs available in the market, and none of them appear to be 'low noise' 'Audio friendly' options. Only a couple of places seem to make an audiophile power supply for the humble Rega TTPSU, so I had to work out which one would be the best value for money as I could only do this once. The options I found were all foreign production options, usually made to order and with no real way to test them or review their performance without pulling the purchase trigger. The most comfortable option I could find was a custom PSU from Graham Slee Products, though the price was outside of my resources at the time. Swagman Labs (eBay seller) produces an option, but then recommends the upgraded version for audiophiles, again the price was creeping up there and still no comfort as to the result...... what was the boy to do? the buzz it is loud enough to creep into the Sennheiser HD 650 listening sessions these days.

 

Well the solution. Contact a local Audio Electronics specialist and get him to test the power supply and the TTPSU to see what could be done as a local manufacture, thats what! 

 

So I had a chat with William from The Factory Audio, here in Canberra, and after testing he has recommended an upgrade to the internals of the TTPSU and make some electrical modifications to allow a lower voltage, higher precision , lower noise plug pack to serve up the requisite AC to the turn table. He indicated the TTPSU had only just enough capacitance to do the job, it was taking about 32V from the plug pack and reducing it to closer to 20V for the turntable so was wasting heaps of life on heat etc.. So upgrading the TTPSU and using a better plug pack was a better option than producing a separate PSU with all the requisite conditioning and control, only to use the TTPSU to do the last little bit.

The best part: The price was within my tolerance, and is produced by a Canberra local!............... So hopefully by the end of the week, I will be able to further report back as to the performance of the upgraded/adjusted TTPSU. I am hoping to be able to report back that the unicorns and fairies have now been released from the RP6 in equal measure and the air and space around instruments and singers is life changing............ but if not, that the Buzz has gone and I am listening to vinyl with reduced noise.

 

Thanks for reading this long post, enjoy the rest of your night

 

Dan

[ericd]

Thanks for that post. I too have 'earthed' the TT-PSU, but still have the same buzz problem coming directly out of the wallwart itself. If there's any chance of your tech sharing the technical wizardry details (of which I understand nothing), I might take mine to the local audio electrician and see what he thinks.

 

Keep us posted.

[Gijo1977]

So I have asked for some before and after images and a bit of an explanation. So hopefully I can share them and the education.

 

I am also having a proper grounding lug added to the TTPSU, the wire attached to the screw or facia doesn't fit with my personality and gives me a bit of a tick when I think about how easy a good solution should be from factory.

 

I am somewhat relieved I was not the only one who could hear the buzz of the plug pack, hopefully this solution is a good one! 

[Qwertyqaz]

You should have just bought a different turntable 

[andyr]

40 minutes ago, Qwertyqaz said:

You should have just bought a different turntable 

 

I don't agree, Kunal - nothing wrong with the TT ... just the PS.  (But he could've bought a 24v Sbooster LPS (but I guess he wasn't aware of them).)

 

Andy

 

[ericd]

13 hours ago, andyr said:

 

I don't agree, Kunal - nothing wrong with the TT ... just the PS.  (But he could've bought a 24v Sbooster LPS (but I guess he wasn't aware of them).)

 

Andy

 

I can't find a local price for the Sbooster- but if I'm looking at the right thing guessing around $500?

[andyr]

56 minutes ago, ericd said:

I can't find a local price for the Sbooster- but if I'm looking at the right thing guessing around $500?

 

A bit under for the 24v one, Cameron.

 

Andy

 

[The Spider]

very interesting! great read!

 

I have the new Rega Neo TT-PSU arriving next week....I wonder what adventures I'm about to embark on!

[Gijo1977]

Hey Guys,

 

I am really happy with the turntable, it sounds fantastic even with the buzz. As a purchase from another SNA'r with some basic mods and exact cart already installed, there was few if any comparable quality options in the market. I am sure there are other options, don't get me wrong, and I was tempted to use the buzz as an excuse to continue the upgradeitis, but sanity has prevailed for now…...

 

Out of interest, I just checked the SBooster info. The units are only suitable for gear that is running from DC power, they do not provide a replacement option for gear requiring AC…. so there was no joy to be had there for a rega turntable

 

In better news though, I have received my newly upgraded TTPSU and wall pack and it works great with no buzz. I am yet to really have a good listen as my 4 week old has conveniently fallen asleep in the listening room, and I have orders: NO ONE IS TO WAKE HER!

 

But some of the findings from William in addition to those I posted earlier:

The internal capacitors (x4) are rated to 35v each, when measured they were dealing with 36.somthing. William explained this was quite bad, and that the unit was 100% likely to fail in the next few years…  He also explained that the original power supply was fairly light weight, and the fact it was generating over 30V meant it was working much harder than it should, and this was contributing to the buzz. The replacement power pack is a much heavier, 16VAC unit outputting 1500 mv or so and designed for quiet operation. The enlarged capacitors are now only dealing with 26V and the voltage regulators are now dealing with much less voltage to achieve the correct 20V output to the TT (and should have a much increased life as a result).

 

The TTPSU now has a grounding terminal on the rear, and a hard-wired power pack delivering quiet power through some additional power spike controlling gizmo, and new massive capacitors. So all in all, I am a happy man….. more happier once I can get some vinyl spinning though

 

William indicated he would be putting up a blog post on his website to explain the situation in more detail and provide suitable pics etc.. and I will link the post here when it goes up.

[andyr]

1 hour ago, Gijo1977 said:

Out of interest, I just checked the SBooster info. The units are only suitable for gear that is running from DC power, they do not provide a replacement option for gear requiring AC…. so there was no joy to be had there for a rega turntable

 

You are absolutely correct - my mistake ... I thought your wall-wart delivered 24v DC.

 

1 hour ago, Gijo1977 said:

 

The enlarged capacitors are now only dealing with 26V and the voltage regulators are now dealing with much less voltage to achieve the correct 20V output to the TT (and should have a much increased life as a result).

 

 

If your motor is running off 20v then I guess your TT uses the 24v Rega Premotec motor?  I am using these on my own TT ... but (courtesy of Steve Tuckett's "Number9" motor speed controller) I am feeding them 30v - not 24!  The extra voltage delivers extra torque - which delivers an increase in SQ. 

 

Andy

[Gijo1977]

2 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

You are absolutely correct - my mistake ... I thought your wall-wart delivered 24v DC.

 

 

If your motor is running off 20v then I guess your TT uses the 24v Rega Premotec motor?  I am using these on my own TT ... but (courtesy of Steve Tuckett's "Number9" motor speed controller) I am feeding them 30v - not 24!  The extra voltage delivers extra torque - which delivers an increase in SQ. 

 

Andy

So my knowledge of all things electronic is pretty weak, so I am trying to parrot what has been explained to me. Forgive me if you know this: The Rega is definitely using the 24v motor, common to most of their TT (RP3, RP6 etc) the TTPSU is the speed and power regulator that is standard on the RP6. The TTPSU is regulating the power down to 20V as per Rega's design. The upgrade has only made the original design more robust, not really re-designed the unit. The Number9 unit looks the goods  but luckily for me is well outside the price range I was looking at, particularly as the price of that controller exceeds the price of my TT.

 

Cheers

 

Dan

[andyr]

8 hours ago, Gijo1977 said:

So my knowledge of all things electronic is pretty weak, so I am trying to parrot what has been explained to me. Forgive me if you know this: The Rega is definitely using the 24v motor, common to most of their TT (RP3, RP6 etc) the TTPSU is the speed and power regulator that is standard on the RP6. The TTPSU is regulating the power down to 20V as per Rega's design. The upgrade has only made the original design more robust, not really re-designed the unit. The Number9 unit looks the goods  but luckily for me is well outside the price range I was looking at, particularly as the price of that controller exceeds the price of my TT.

 

Cheers

 

Dan

 

Your knowledge is fine, Dan!   

 

Andy

 

[Gijo1977]

Soooo, I have now had the chance to sit down and listen to a few sides, "Wish You Were Here" is now spinning

 

The verdict: There is a definite improvement to the sound. It is subtle, but I feel like the low end has had a bit of an upgrade in definition, the base has more definition and the singers that back Paul Simon in "Graceland" sound better than they did the last time I listened. Also the Base and the Kick drums seem to be just plain better!

 

I also feel like there has been some additional benefits added to the 'locations' of instruments and singers, like a little bit more of the veil has been removed, bringing the musicians further into my room.

 

Anyway, I have now justified my purchase  and everything should be well in my world as I listen to Pink Floyd for the second time in my life.

 

** Edit ** Just got goosebumps from Ed Sheran Sheran's "Supermarket Flowers"

Edited October 14, 2017 by Gijo1977
Addition

[The Spider]

2 hours ago, Gijo1977 said:

Soooo, I have now had the chance to sit down and listen to a few sides, "Wish You Were Here" is now spinning

 

The verdict: There is a definite improvement to the sound. It is subtle, but I feel like the low end has had a bit of an upgrade in definition, the base has more definition and the singers that back Paul Simon in "Graceland" sound better than they did the last time I listened. Also the Base and the Kick drums seem to be just plain better!

 

I also feel like there has been some additional benefits added to the 'locations' of instruments and singers, like a little bit more of the veil has been removed, bringing the musicians further into my room.

 

Anyway, I have now justified my purchase  and everything should be well in my world as I listen to Pink Floyd for the second time in my life.

 

** Edit ** Just got goosebumps from Ed Sheran Sheran's "Supermarket Flowers"

Your reviews sound very similar to my reviews....'I believe', 'I think', 'since the last time'....the big changes I can hear....the little ones I think I can but maybe I'm just justifying my purchase!

 

Would love to get William to look at the new Neo and give me his feedback! It's based on the design of the Rp10 TT-PSU so is a different animal completely.

 

I'm hoping it, perhaps, maybe improves the crispness of the percussion of Radiohead's The Pyramid song

 

[Gijo1977]

Maybe you could get some images of the inside of the unit once you get it? unless it voids the warranty? You could probably use a multimeter to measure the power pack output from new? just to give you some insight to the potential future of the unit.

 

I thought the marketing for the original TTPSU suggested it was based on the P9 power supply..... but I guess 'based on' leaves a fair bit of room in what is actually delivered  particularly when it comes to the quantity and quality of the bits doing all the work.

 

I hope the info has been helpful?

 

[astormsau]

A friend here in Melbourne took delivery of a new TT-PSU about a month ago which he purchased from a dealer in QLD. Anyhow the wall wart had the hum straight out of the box. He rang the retailer and he was shipped a new brick directly from Synergy within 2 days. His power supplies both had different labels to the one which came with my RP8 but the units appear almost identical. The new supply he was sent has no hum.

Drew

[ericd]

Must be luck of the draw with the Rega wall warts. Synergy also sent me a second one when I reported the buzz issue- unfortunately it was worse than the first one. (I must say that I found Synergy's customer support has been top class).

[Wimbo]

I've never heard of AC power supplies humming, only DC and that why you can buy regulated ones.

Learn something on here everyday.

[Gijo1977]

Well I now have a spare humming 24V power pack if anyone needs it

 

[Richieroo]

I have one of these:

http://www.swagmanlab.com/Product_PSU?product_id=664

 

replaced the dodgy Rega wall-wart

[mikizee]

I had a P3-24 with a TTPSU about ten years ago. Reading this thread reminded me that I had a hum too. From my hazy recollection, I earthed out the PSU which eliminated the hum. I think.

[Gijo1977]

I have one of these:
http://www.swagmanlab.com/Product_PSU?product_id=664
 
replaced the dodgy Rega wall-wart

I looked at these options as well. But couldn’t really get a feel for it via a review? It was definitely the solution for me if William couldn’t sort it out for a better budgetary outcome :-) so at this stage I feel like I am winning.

BTW how have you found the Swagman Labs solution? It might help others?

[The Spider]

Neo PSU (without any buzz)  being installed with a Michell VAT adjuster...

 

The Neo was great to set up...came out as 33.17 and was very easy to adjust.

[Gijo1977]

Looks like a fun evening. Great to hear you have a lack of buzz.

[The Spider]

Here she is hiding under the rest the the tower of Rega...LED turns green when she is 45rpm.

 

Turning her was interesting though....the adjusting hole is just that....a 3mm hole...and despite reading the manual 3 times I couldn't find the part that says 2mm hex wrench/allen key required, but once you look inside the hole you can see it's hex shaped. Then clockwise a few clicks and and 33.31 (i'm not not precise to try for the last 3!

 

There is another way  which is more precise as it doesn't use your iphone and RPM app to determine platter speed however you need a strobe/laser pen (which Rega had originally planned on selling with the Neo when I first heard the gossip about it back in March).

 

anyway, recommended. Has definitely added definition to the sound.