Are all optical cables created equal?

[Interface]

In regards to optical cables are they all created equal or are there ones that give a better / different sound?

 I have experienced different sound by changing interconnects and also speaker cables so does this apply to optical cable as well?

Looking forward to your responses.

[Guest Sime]

Not that I’ve ever heard. 

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, Sime said:

Not that I’ve ever heard. 

 

Must be that your B&W Diamond system isn't transparent enough

 

(you know I'm being sarcastic)

[Guest Sime]

Van acoustics 

[Janjuggler]

Hi

 

Perhaps there may be a difference between plastic optical line and glass fibre line, but you wouldn't know unless you tried....

 

JJ

[SteveC]

I keep meaning to try the lifatec ones. They are glass and not over priced for this hobby. For me it's the connectors that can be a problem with optical as the surrounds are sometimes too big. 

[jeromelang]

Those various toslink cables that I've tried in the past definitely sound different from one and the other. The one that I often used these days is a Straightwire made glass fibre, which interestingly, sounds best only in one direction, but not the other direction.

 

the st optical glass cable currently used between my Emmy combo is also very directional. To verify this, I've ordered 2 pairs (total 4 pieces) of same made st optical cable and tried both directions on all of them, and found them to be highly directional too.

 

I can't think of any reasons why they should all sound better only in one direction, except maybe of the variance at the joints where 2 terminated cables meet. It may be that any break in continuity could have resulted in reflections being bounced along the cable back to its source, creating varying jitter issues. I was told that applying "optic gel" is the norm in the fibre optic industry to maintain the same reflection index to avoid reflection bounce back problems. But I'm a little reluctant to apply any gooey stuff into those st optical terminal crevices, because the dried out gel might cause even more dirt problem in the future.

[soundreference]

Some optical cables cost more than others. Its usually because they are better. You get what you pay for...

[Interface]

Thank you all for your input. Certainly made think about the glass vs plastic.

 

Cheers.

[Happy]

One advantage which I think is not negligible with the typical el-cheapo plastic thin wired optical cables is that they're so lightweight that they do not add any stress to the connection area. Optical cable output housing can easily break. They do their job well, and there is no objective evidence we can hear the difference between them and more expensive cables. The choice is for you to make.

[Gremrock]

I use the top of the range Crest Pro Series leads which retailed for $129 when they were current, but only because I bought them for $13 ea on clearance

 

They sound the same as the $14.95 jay car ones for the TV sound and the Apple TV, but they look a LOT prettier. They're also harder to break being shielded/braided etc, and weigh a lot more so ham-handed installers will undoubtedly ruin connectors. Make of that what you will

[Addicted to music]

In the early 80s I was exposed to machinery that used fibre optics, always in pairs; Tx/Rx.  They were always plastics to sustain flexibility.  Glass was used in high quality fixed installation as they are brittle and are normally used for distance transmission.  The plastics fibre that I was exposed to were that tough that even crushing the fibre it was still OK and transmitting 100%.  You know this because they always came in pairs, you can aim a pair on one side to the light and check the other end visually to see if both fibres Tx/Rx had the same intensity.  This was the basic check for fibre communication, if one had less light intensity it meant that one was damaged, and usually the damaged fibre had a damaged terminating lens. I have to admit the quality of the ends where it terminates with the lens and anchoring assembly is vital for correct communication.

[Conster]

Here's an inexpensive glass toslink that was recommended to me by a friend.

 

I found it much better than the off-the-shelf plastic variety. Having said that, I have never compared it with any of the higher-end toslinks.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/182598647616

[andyr]

On 9/30/2017 at 1:11 PM, jeromelang said:

 

Those various toslink cables that I've tried in the past definitely sound different from one and the other. The one that I often used these days is a Straightwire made glass fibre, which interestingly, sounds best only in one direction, but not the other direction.

 

the st optical glass cable currently used between my Emmy combo is also very directional. To verify this, I've ordered 2 pairs (total 4 pieces) of same made st optical cable and tried both directions on all of them, and found them to be highly directional too.

 

 

Very interesting that an optical cable is directional, Jerome.  To work out which is better ... do you simply try it one way - then reverse it - and simply listen to/compare the sound each way?

 

2 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

In the early 80s I was exposed to machinery that used fibre optics, always in pairs; Tx/Rx.  They were always plastics to sustain flexibility.  Glass was used in high quality fixed installation as they are brittle and are normally used for distance transmission.  The plastics fibre that I was exposed to were that tough that even crushing the fibre it was still OK and transmitting 100%.  You know this because they always came in pairs, you can aim a pair on one side to the light and check the other end visually to see if both fibres Tx/Rx had the same intensity.  This was the basic check for fibre communication, if one had less light intensity it meant that one was damaged, and usually the damaged fibre had a damaged terminating lens. I have to admit the quality of the ends where it terminates with the lens and anchoring assembly is vital for correct communication.

 

Peter, when one has the option of using either an optical cable or a digital coax ... is one transmission method better than the other?

 

At some stage, I will be connecting 4 source devices to a digital switch ... and feeding the output into my miniDSP unit - and have the choice between optical or coax cables.  I have read that an optical cable:

• is better because the signal earth is not passed between the 2 components (minimising the chance of getting ground loop hum).
• is worse because it produces more jitter (than a coax cable), as the clock info cannot be passed along to the receiving component.

But as I know nothing about digital comms, I have no way of deciding which is 'true news' ... and which is 'fake news'!

 

1 hour ago, Conster said:

Here's an inexpensive glass toslink that was recommended to me by a friend.

 

I found it much better than the off-the-shelf plastic variety. Having said that, I have never compared it with any of the higher-end toslinks.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/182598647616

 

Looks good, C.  Do you know whether he sells shorter cables as well?  (I tried to send him a msg ... but failed.  )

 

Andy

 

[jeromelang]

1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Very interesting that an optical cable is directional, Jerome.  To work out which is better ... do you simply try it one way - then reverse it - and simply listen to/compare the sound each way?

 

To properly test directionality you always need to ensure the track cueing process is exactly identical. And to spin the disc at least once prior to testing (an optical cd disc played the second time is very audibly different compared to 1st play straight out of the jewel box)

 

So the process is:

 

Play disc for a couple of tracks.

Stop play.

Remove disc.

Power off player. 

Power on player again.

Load the disc and close tray.

Let it read toc and settle fully.

Play track 1.

Do not use remote control 

Use only front panel buttons.

Listen.

Take note of soundstaging height.

Stop disc.

Unplug optical cable.

Change direction.

Plug in optical cable.

Careful not to allow your hands to touch other cables.

Remove disc.

Power off player. 

Power on player again.

Load the disc and close the tray.

Let it read toc and settle fully.

Play track 1.

Do not use remote control 

Use only front panel buttons.

Listen again.

Take note of soundstaging height.

Take note the differences.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by jeromelang

[andyr]

41 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

To properly test directionality you always need to ensure the track cueing process is exactly identical. And to spin the disc at least once prior to testing (an optical cd disc played the second time is very audibly different compared to 1st play straight out of the jewel box)

 

Thank you, Jerome  - I never knew that! 

 

41 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

So the process is:

 

Play disc for a couple of tracks.

Stop play.

Remove disc.

Power off player. 

Power on player again.

Let it read toc and settle fully.

Play track 1.

Do not use remote control 

Use only front panel buttons.

Listen.

Take note of soundstaging height.

Stop disc.

Unplug optical cable.

Change direction.

Plug in optical cable.

Careful not to allow your hands to touch other cables.

Remove disc.

Power off player. 

Power on player again.

Let it read toc and settle fully.

Play track 1.

Do not use remote control 

Use only front panel buttons.

Listen again.

Take note of soundstaging height.

Take note the differences.

 

That is a pretty heavy test process! 

 

But I am intrigued - so I will try it in due course (when I re-arrange my digital setup).

 

Which I guess leads on to another Qu.  If you have several identical optical cables (ie. same mfr, same length), if you have established the better way round for 1 cable ... will the others be the same?  Or do you have to test each cable separately?

 

Andy

 

[jeromelang]

There is no marking of any kind to indicate directionality (Of course).

 

And there are no identifiable markings of any kind to differentiate either ends of each optical cable.

 

so all five cables had to be checked separately. 

[andyr]

3 minutes ago, jeromelang said:

There is no marking of any kind to indicate directionality (Of course).

 

And there are no identifiable markings of any kind to differentiate either ends of each optical cable.

 

so all five cables had to be checked separately. 

 

Well, as the man said ... "life wasn't meant to be easy"! 

 

Andy

 

[djb]

Andyr said

"I never knew that "

 

a very rare rare admission from the man!

[Addicted to music]

10 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Very interesting that an optical cable is directional, Jerome.  To work out which is better ... do you simply try it one way - then reverse it - and simply listen to/compare the sound each way?

 

 

Peter, when one has the option of using either an optical cable or a digital coax ... is one transmission method better than the other?

 

At some stage, I will be connecting 4 source devices to a digital switch ... and feeding the output into my miniDSP unit - and have the choice between optical or coax cables.  I have read that an optical cable:

• is better because the signal earth is not passed between the 2 components (minimising the chance of getting ground loop hum).
• is worse because it produces more jitter (than a coax cable), as the clock info cannot be passed along to the receiving component.

But as I know nothing about digital comms, I have no way of deciding which is 'true news' ... and which is 'fake news'!

 

Andy

 

Your 2 points are correct Andy.  

However, I cannot tell the difference between optical and coax.   Maybe because I used a OPPO105 that has extremely low jitter results and the results are the same for both coax and optical.

 

Here is a link on someone who's done the measurements for the 105:

 

http://www.qualifi.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_SR.tpl&product_id=57687&category_id=150&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1049

 

check out what he saids about the jitter results on coaxial, optical, HDMI and USB.  Note that the OPPO 105 uses USB 2.0. 

 

i know the comment for the OPPO 105 is that it's a jack of all tools but a master of none.  But you can see here that it measures outstandingly according this guy.   

I don't have the measuring equipment that this guy has at his disposal so I'm gonna take his word and work for it.

My advise to you is to have and run both optical and coaxial in case one does benefit more than the other!  Hence the reason I've always had both and HDMI.  

 

And to answer to the OP not all optical cables are made equal.  Toshlink was designed by Toshiba sonthey can connect there CD/DVD directly to there AV.   The standards for Toshlink has changed and the Toshlink that we have now have on existing equipment such as the OPPO 105 and NAD M51 is so it's up to 24/192 kHz  supported!   Originally set up as 3mb/s transfer it's now up to 125mb/s  

secondly the light attenuation in intensity is higher than it is in glass and there are different types and grades of fibre optic cables, having said that the max length supported is 10m s for standard toshlink.  Most here I don't think will order a lengh of 5m.  I have all 3M lengths or shorter!  

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Addicted to music

[andyr]

4 hours ago, djb said:

Andyr said

"I never knew that "

 

a very rare rare admission from the man!

 

C'mon, David - this is in the digital world - I fully admit I am a neophyte re. digital. 

 

Andy

 

[Conster]

@andyr

On 1 October 2017 at 2:55 PM, andyr said:

Looks good, C.  Do you know whether he sells shorter cables as well?  (I tried to send him a msg ... but failed.  )

I think there's also a 0.5m version of this cable. I remember them selling on audiogon a few years back, but I haven't seen them for a while.

[andyr]

59 minutes ago, Conster said:

@andyr

I think there's also a 0.5m version of this cable. I remember them selling on audiogon a few years back, but I haven't seen them for a while.

Thanks, C

 

Andy

 

[Wimbo]

I remember back in the day when DAC's first arised, ( Stan Curtis 3 box machine, Marantz CD94/CDA94) that coaxial sounded generally better then optical. We all heard it. Optical had a hard/Glare that coaxial didnt have.

I have also thought that glass was better then plastic because of package loss. Not too many tests done by me as I'm not interested in CD playback. HD digital might be another thing but I'm not going that way as I have too many LP's.

[soundreference]

Sigh.

 

no digital cable is any better or worse than its fellows. Either optical or coaxial SPDIF or USB etc. Sure different designers of specialty audio have their favs (just read high end mags they wax lyrical) but all are equal in the long run if implemented correctly and are of a certain quality