Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

We have all been very busy with USB for the last couple of years and how we like to isolate our audio system from the PC source.

Is there anything similar on the market that does isolate our audio system from the PC source when using HDMI?

 

I am currently researching HDMI distribution amplifiers that seem to re-clock, equalize and regenerate HDMI signals before output. Some also run a buffer on the output.

Some examples:

Vision TC-HDMI12 https://visionaudiovisual.com/techconnect/tc-hdmi12/

Cyp QU-12S1A http://www.cypeurope.com/store/store/app/product/QU-12SIA/1-to-2-HDMI-Distribution-Amplifier-with-additional-HDMI-output-for-non-3D-AVR-

Pro.2 HDMI2SP http://pro2.com.au/347/allproducts/avaccessories/avdistribution/hdmi2sp-2-way-hdmi-splitter-1-in-2-out/

Kramer VM-2HXL https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/30095/kramer-vm-2hxl-1-2-hdmi-distribution-amplifier-vm-2hxl.html

 

Anyone who has any experience with this or has some thoughts on it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



I'm not really sure what you want to do.

 

I have a Blustream HDMI matrix, one of these in particular: http://www.blustream.co.uk/mx42ab

Using my PC connected it was able to read the EDID from my Projector and my TV.

I could store store the EDIDs on my PC as files with the potential for modification.

The EDIDs are also stored within the device itself.

This makes any connected source device (HTPC, Foxtel box) think that the actual display device is connected (Projector or TV) and not the Matrix.

This also makes switching very fast and reliable.

After a bit of fiddling around it works flawlessly, I'm very happy with it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is how the Anthem D2 handels HDMI signals.

"Sound from HDMI sources plays perfectly, at least if does if you’re using a D2v. Why? In the D2v, all eight HDMI inputs are connected through high-performance TMDS (Transition Minimized Differential Signaling) timing regenerators and multiplexers. The receiver contains a programmable equalizer and a Clock Data Recovery (CDR) function for each of the three TMDS pairs in an HDMI or DVI signal. The TMDS data outputs are regenerated and perfectly aligned to the regenerated TMDS clock signal, creating an extremely clean low-jitter DVI/HDMI signal that is easily decoded by the HDMI receiver. This is particularly useful for cleaning up a noisy/jittery source, or when a long or low-quality cable is being used"

A PC is not a great source for a clean signal.

Sent from my HTC_0PKV1 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Primare Knob said:

low-jitter DVI/HDMI signal that is easily decoded by the HDMI receiver.

Ah... this doesn't make much sense IMO;

 

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,109948.75.html

 

HDMI is a digital connection that has error correction etc.

 

25 minutes ago, Primare Knob said:

This is particularly useful for cleaning up a noisy/jittery source, or when a long or low-quality cable is being used"

 

Signal either comes through properly... or doesn't at all.

 

JSmith :ninja:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



The key word is error correction and timing. Bits are bits, but what seems to matter is in what manner they arrive.

A well designed USB DAC will have a large buffer, reclockes the signal and might have an independent power supply on the receiving end. Not sure if this applies for HDMI as well, but that is what I am trying to find out.

The link you posted seems to lead to an empty page.

Sent from my HTC_0PKV1 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

The key word is error correction and timing. Bits are bits, but what seems to matter is in what manner they arrive.

Sure is... but what do you mean by the manner in which they arrive? We're talking about a data transfer of 0's and 1's.

 

The page I linked to opens fine for me.

 

JSmith :ninja:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a question that I haven't been able to answer for myself. Hence this and many other questions.

 

I have been able to read through the link you posted using a different app. It seems jitter isn't a big issue and a buffer in front of the DSP would get rid of most of it.

 

There are two things that I have witnessed that has me chasing digital ghost.

A device that balances cd's by scraping of the edge. Voodoo? I thought so until I heard the difference.

Sending a 24 bit stream into a 32 bit wrapper to my DAC is making an improvement.

 

I don't know where these improvement are coming from but they seem to hide in the data transmission.

 

I have been communicating with someone from radio parts, who told me today that he has been asking around at manufactures for a HDMI conditioner. So my idea doesn't seem to stand by itself. It probably is more of a question about what do we want to clean up?

Edited by Primare Knob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

There are two things that I have witnessed that has me chasing digital ghost.

A device that balances cd's by scraping of the edge. Voodoo? I thought so until I heard the difference.

Sending a 24 bit stream into a 32 bit wrapper to my DAC is making an improvement.

CD scraping, do you think it's impossible for your good self to be affected by placebo?

 

Some DAC's or their computer drivers may truncate 32 bit input to 24 bit output.

So yes it might very well be better to send 24 bits in a 32 bit package.

I do this currently with JRiver MC as it facilitates it nicely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Placebo? That was what I wanted it to be as I didn't want to believe it and thought I was fooling myself. But the misses confirmed it was an improvement without me asking her. And she couldn't care less for these things so the difference is rather big or she would not notice it.

I still don't have an explanation for why this can work. My guess is that there is less need for error correction and less latticy.

This got me thinking why not get rid of the problem by removing the disc and use a computer.

Or it was a very clever sales trick, and they switched the player. But the first player was an MSB which would be hard to beat and the store has a very good reputation.

Would love to find out what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Double placebo. :lol: No seriously. :mellow:

 

The last time I spun CD's in real time was 10 years ago, it's all on the computer.

Accuraterip confirms perfection, so no need to get out any sharp objects. :aww:

Edited by Satanica
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 25/09/2017 at 9:30 PM, Primare Knob said:

buffer

Yep... already there;

 

"Much later, they added a thing called Audio Rate Control in HDMI 1.3a. This puts a buffer and the master audio clock in the receiver. Then commands are sent upstream on the CEC line telling the player to speed up and slow down as necessary to keep the buffer full."

 

Don't get the jitter bug mate. ;)

 

JSmith :ninja:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 12:30 PM, Satanica said:

I'm not really sure what you want to do.

 

I have a Blustream HDMI matrix, one of these in particular: http://www.blustream.co.uk/mx42ab

Using my PC connected it was able to read the EDID from my Projector and my TV.

I could store store the EDIDs on my PC as files with the potential for modification.

The EDIDs are also stored within the device itself.

This makes any connected source device (HTPC, Foxtel box) think that the actual display device is connected (Projector or TV) and not the Matrix.

This also makes switching very fast and reliable.

After a bit of fiddling around it works flawlessly, I'm very happy with it.

 

What made you chose the BlueStream brand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Primare Knob said:

What made you chose the BlueStream brand?

Hey, it seemed to me at least at the time to be the cheapest (around $350) that did proper EDID management.

And despite the main site being in the UK they're actually an Australian based company.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



On ‎26‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 6:06 PM, Primare Knob said:

Placebo? That was what I wanted it to be as I didn't want to believe it and thought I was fooling myself. But the misses confirmed it was an improvement without me asking her. And she couldn't care less for these things so the difference is rather big or she would not notice it.

I still don't have an explanation for why this can work. My guess is that there is less need for error correction and less latticy.

Thinking its more a factor of how stable the disc mechanism is rather than the error correction as cd Reed Solomon codes are very strong apparently :winky:

Anyway its a good move to take the disc drive out of the equation completely with a hdd ; salesman or no ..

Quote

 

The result is a CIRC that can completely correct error bursts up to 4000 bits, or about 2.5 mm on the disc surface. This code is so strong that most CD playback errors are almost certainly caused by tracking errors that cause the laser to jump track, not by uncorrectable error bursts

 

Hi J ; ARC was not widely adopted unfortunately ; Charles Hansen ceo of Ayre produced the DX5 [modded oppo] that incorporated it in the forlorn hope that another company would make a pre pro with its better masterclocking regime rather than the video masterclock we live with presently .. Sonys proprietary name was HATS and pioneers was PQLS I recall .  Denon too had a similar denon link clocking that went through different iterations. quote from Hansen;

 

Quote

Audio Rate Control is a feedback pipeline on the HDMI cable, implemented on the CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) line. Instead of the player being the master and the audio processor with the DAC chips slaving to the player, the system is turned around. The master clock is in the receiver and signals are sent to the player telling it to speed up or slow down (the rate of the spinning disc essentially) to match the audio clock in the receiver.

ARC was included in the HDMI 1.3a specification. Pioneer and Sony use(d?) proprietary implementations. If you analyze the traffic on the CEC line, it is all prefaced with a code for "PIONEER" or "SONY" so that only their equipment will respond to the commands from the receiver.

And in this case, receiver is the correct word. Pioneer makes no SSPs, only surround receivers. I don't think they would be a good match for our video disc player source....

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Decided to order one. Splitter and Extender package. Not sure if the splitter is going to make a difference, but it got my interest and gives me something to play with and learn.

https://www.hdfury.eu/en/home/32-hdfury-integral-hdmi-extender-4k-120m.html

 

Funny thing is, they sell it on a European site but not on their own site. The European site has way more products than the original site as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...
To Top