JVC autocal

[betty boop]

Its a fantastic option with JVC projectors that they allow an "autocal" i.e. auto calibration with specific colorimeter, e.g. the spyder 5 express that can work with my jvc x7000. The benefit of this system is you can run it anytime to whip jvc projector in line and with projectors this is something realistically needed every 200 hours or so and not feasible if doing using a professional calibrator everytime. 

 

So something been meaning to get around to for a long while, just not had the head space to get my head around. Something I know there is a bit of interest in with few others I knew and similarly afflicted. Fortunately for us we have in our presence an @IMDave who has managed to master this aspect of JVCs. 

 

So we arranged a little autocal gtg last night, with small troupe with @muriwai @Quark and @Kazz joining in along with myself  to get our brains around this 

 

below is the colorimeter we used,

 

 

which i purchased off digidirect a while back, keeping in mind their eBay store and eBay sales making a very affordable prospect,

http://www.digidirect.com.au/accessories/colour_calibration/datacolor_spyder_5_express

and prior to the gtg on imdaves instruction, made sure downloaded the latest JVC software specific to my x7000,

http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/download/dla-x950r_x750r_x550rb_x9000_x7000_x5000_xc7890r_xc6890r_xc5890r_rs400_calibrationsoft-dl.html

 

also made sure the colorimeter was installed on my laptop with its software and driver etc off the datacolor website,

http://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spyder5-family/

 

Session was very much a learning exercise so took us a little while, as we negotiated each step. Though if just doing it yourself have no doubt would just whip through and something once comfortable with can indeed just get through rather swiftly.

 

it wasnt without some hurdles. mainly because the jvc software requires both the projector and laptop on the same network. we were using the laptop wireless and jvc hooked to my router. and with network between laptop and jvc dropping out at one stage we eventually decided to just hook the laptop also cabled to the router. note to self buy another 10m network lead !  only other hiccup was at one point the software mis behaved not allowing us to select the bt2020 color space. but shutting the software and re opening seemed to fix that.

 

also some care is needed with meter placement i.e. in the light path and rear end of window box as assisted with auto cal software.

 

Care also needs to be taken to save the original factory setup that is now carefully saved away for future. what ended up is a calibration for UHD blu-ray and also a R709 preset for blu-ray and DVD/ fta TV etc.

 

Am extremely pleased with the end result. I think i had things pretty well to start with, but over the moon since and couldnt stop watching with various material put through once everyone left, with DVD, blu-ray, uhd blu-ray all looking an absolute treat. I still need to do some final dialling in(i.e. brightness contrast via the wow disney disc) and look am sure the expensive gear pros use and in hands of a pro calibrator (not taking anything away from the guys) would have no doubt achieve an even better result, but keeping in mind the relatively affordable outlay, and given this ws a first go on my pj, I think the result is fantastic !!!!

 

A big big thanks to imdave for taking us through this. Kazz has said she is going to have a go doing her jvc over the weekend and no doubt others will also give a go now. what is fantastic I have to say that as a forum it can bring ourselves together in something like this that some of us were struggling with potentially.... to even get started. hopefully this is encouragement for others to also give a go

 

below some photos from evening and also some pretty rough screen shots of my calibration results  . Hopefully this thread is not only an inspiration for others and I know there is considerable resource online, but also perhaps something us locals here can use to share experiences and to utilise where come stuck or trying to get head around. Also hopefully this thread also inspires others to get together similarly. we are already talking about a 2nd gtg perhaps in some months time to talk ARVE curves which seem to be another step ahead...

 

imdave taking us through the autocal process, and getting ourselves setup prior to the autocal

 

colorimeter sensor in place

 

as confirmed by the jvc autocal software that the sensor is within the calibration window and we are ready for lights off and starting auto cal ! 

 

projector settings,

 

some calibration chart results,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kazz]

It was a very informative night and thanks go to @:) al for hosting us and @IMDave for taking the time to walk us through the process.

 

I'm now not as apprehensive about running Autocal on my JVC, and since I'll apparently have the house to myself on Friday night, I can give it a go uninterrupted. 

 

Looking forward to embarking on the Arve curves in the near future as well. 

[betty boop]

34 minutes ago, Kazz said:

It was a very informative night and thanks go to @:) al for hosting us and @IMDave for taking the time to walk us through the process.

 

I'm now not as apprehensive about running Autocal on my JVC, and since I'll apparently have the house to myself on Friday night, I can give it a go uninterrupted. 

 

Looking forward to embarking on the Arve curves in the near future as well. 

 

wish all success Kazz with the autocal, do post back here and look forward to reading how things go. 

[IMDave]

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Though I wouldn't say I've "mastered" the process, as was evidenced by the couple of little hiccups we had along the way.

At the end of the day,it was a demonstration that a home user can  get a great result for a small investment in time and money.

In fact ,without risking to offend any of our professional calibration fraternity, I would suggest that for 4k/uhd on the Xx000 series that defaults to JVC's proprietary Gamma D, the combination of the Autocal software and the custom gamma curves that can be created using the Arve application will provide the best calibration possible.

Considering @:) al and I were amongst the first in the world to get our hands on the X7000 in November 2015, it has taken a long time to get to this point. 

[betty boop]

40 minutes ago, IMDave said:

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Though I wouldn't say I've "mastered" the process, as was evidenced by the couple of little hiccups we had along the way.

At the end of the day,it was a demonstration that a home user can  get a great result for a small investment in time and money.

In fact ,without risking to offend any of our professional calibration fraternity, I would suggest that for 4k/uhd on the Xx000 series that defaults to JVC's proprietary Gamma D, the combination of the Autocal software and the custom gamma curves that can be created using the Arve application will provide the best calibration possible.

Considering @:) al and I were amongst the first in the world to get our hands on the X7000 in November 2015, it has taken a long time to get to this point. 

 

its amazing tech, and to the point so affordable and works in with the projector and supplied software. to the point I think this will be a game changer for me from buying any other projector brand   good on you jvc ! 

[YourMateDyl]

So will there be a user guide for the average joe to workthrough to do this? And I'm assuming the x5000 line is similar if not the same as the x7000.
 

 

[betty boop]

15 minutes ago, Dylan86.exe said:

So will there be a user guide for the average joe to workthrough to do this? And I'm assuming the x5000 line is similar if not the same as the x7000.
 

 

 

hi dylan, the x5000 just doesnt have the reference filter, but otherwise the same. Kazz is doing for her X5000 so can comment on any differences vs say what we did for my x7000.

 

re average joe, although i have used the software to import color space and also firmware update the projector. am sorry perhaps just being way too busy in months just not had the head space to get my head around it all. reason we arranged this gtg and i opened invite to all who showed interest when we were discussing over at dtv. we did have some notes on the day, but will leave to dave on availability. I suspect though for most (and i dont know where average joes fall) but probably a gtg type session is probably needed to get to grips. but again quite possibly for someone keen enough to put mind to it having hand held is not necessary and can come up to speed not only with ivc's manual on it (see link above) or with other stuff in the public domain that might just be enough. 

[Kazz]

On 9/5/2017 at 7:22 PM, al said:

 

wish all success Kazz with the autocal, do post back here and look forward to reading how things go. 

I had the house to myself last night, so I warmed up the PJ, setup the Spyder did the autocal for Non HDR, all seemed to be going well..............

After that it all went pear shaped. 

Did the auto cal for high lamp mode and everything got a pinkish tinge to it, even after running the calibration for BT2020 I still had a pink tinge..........

So I packed up and went to bed, was almost midnight by then anyway. 

This morning I've restored the backup file and reset to factory settings, I'll have to revisit Autocal another time, don't hink I have the patience to try again this weekend. 

 

[betty boop]

5 minutes ago, Kazz said:

I had the house to myself last night, so I warmed up the PJ, setup the Spyder did the autocal for Non HDR, all seemed to be going well..............

After that it all went pear shaped. 

Did the auto cal for high lamp mode and everything got a pinkish tinge to it, even after running the calibration for BT2020 I still had a pink tinge..........

So I packed up and went to bed, was almost midnight by then anyway. 

This morning I've restored the backup file and reset to factory settings, I'll have to revisit Autocal another time, don't hink I have the patience to try again this weekend. 

 

grrrr...that would be annoying ! thank goodness you could do a roll back. I think i know how you feel. id be reluctant to get back in there too after all that. 

 

I wonder if I can somehow save things as the are now too... so that any messing about from here on... I can also roll back. 

 

anyways reminds me to store away that file just in case ! 

 

we are still feeling our way arounds I guess 

[blybo]

I'm very interested in doing this, just wish there was a Mac version of the software. I don't have space on my Macbook for a bootcamp windows installation.

 

At least the colorimeter is very affordable.

[betty boop]

23 hours ago, blybo said:

I'm very interested in doing this, just wish there was a Mac version of the software. I don't have space on my Macbook for a bootcamp windows installation.

 

At least the colorimeter is very affordable.

I just run my old midget sony netbook. did just fine  maybe worth grabbing some little affordable thing for just these duties

 

but yeah its pity they dont support mac, I couldnt be bothered with bootcamp and all that, but yes fantastic this is such an affordable solution JVC provide.

 

I did checks last night with wow disney disc for contrast and brightness to fine tune things for 709R, didnt have to touch colour it really is spot on !

 

@IMDave , I note a new version of the RM files came through recently, though am very happy with the HDR setup from last time using the RM files, and looks fantastic as is, thought maybe I'd just check how that is and give the new files a look see. just confirming which file do you/should I use for contrast brightness for HDR clipping ? also your thoughts own what doing with each because i remember some comments on night pinky because they come with no instructions ! any light can shed very much would appreciate

[IMDave]

@:) al

With the new RM files, I haven't looked into them at this stage, other than to see that there is now a section under "Miscellaneous" that provides some test patterns for skin tones and landscapes.

For setting Contrast and Brightness for UHD/HDR I keep the JVC at "0"BR/"0"CR and make my adjustments in the program for Arve's gamma curves.

There are two parameters called BBo and BBi , and the premise is to set BBi at 0.05 Nits, which is the black floor for mastering in the new format. 

So using the RM files I use the Black Clipping_2_HDR10 file in the Basic Set up patterns folder, and make adjustments to BBo until the "81" in the pattern is just visibly flashing, but the "77" is solid black. This is usually a BBo of between 0.003 and 0.010. Very small changes are required.

The Arve curve program also sets the peak white , and it is generally accepted that despite the fact that 4k movies are mastered at both 1000Nits and 4000Nits, there is only the need for one curve using the 4000Nits target. There is no crushing of whites in a 1000Nit movie using a 4000Nit curve.

When you use an Arve curve that is specific to your set up, no other CR/BR adjustments are required. In fact , if you make an Arve curve THEN make CR/BR adjustments in the JVC, it make sthe curve redundant andd will crush both blacks and whites.

Everybody using a Xx000 series JVC for 4kUHD/HDR should be using Arve's curves because it is the most straightforward way to get a "perfect" gamma for your specific room/screen.

The alternative would be to buy one of the newer Xx500 series which has default gamma's that actually work, unlike our Gamma D.

[CAVX]

JVC have come such a long way since the introduction of the RS1 back in 2006(?)  The idea of auto cal is fantastic.

 
However I have two issues I have with this - 

1. only one type of meter works (is it really the best in the price range?) with the software and 

2. the set up requires you take the readings directly in the light path instead of reading the reflected light off the screen.  

 

This 2nd point is quite important as different screens will ultimately give a slightly different result.  

 

Grey in video is D6500K or x:0.313, y:0.329 and whilst the software/sensor combo will achieve this for the direct light readings, what happens to the actual screen reading?  

 

In real watching, you are looking at the light reflecting off the screen, not looking into the light from the lens of the projector.

The gamma software that you upload and tweak is amazing and I wish it worked for every projector out there given so many now have data ports.    

 

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, CAVX said:

JVC have come such a long way since the introduction of the RS1 back in 2006(?)  The idea of auto cal is fantastic.

it sure has come a long way cavx, that prof calibrators likes of CHADB in the us  also use it for JVCs is testament I think. that it covers both R709 and for uhd making particularly useful thing.

 

1 hour ago, CAVX said:

The gamma software that you upload and tweak is amazing and I wish it worked for every projector out there given so many now have data ports.

I agree its amazing, and i wish other projector makers could / would do the same  it really is worth it, especially at such a small cost

[Satanica]

3 hours ago, CAVX said:

2. the set up requires you take the readings directly in the light path instead of reading the reflected light off the screen.  

 

This 2nd point is quite important as different screens will ultimately give a slightly different result.  

 

Grey in video is D6500K or x:0.313, y:0.329 and whilst the software/sensor combo will achieve this for the direct light readings, what happens to the actual screen reading?  

 

In real watching, you are looking at the light reflecting off the screen, not looking into the light from the lens of the projector.

Thinking about this I wonder if one could trick the JVC software into thinking the Spyder 5 light meter is the right way facing but actually calibrated it with the wrong way facing.

Then it would be capturing the light off the screen rather than what's coming out of the projector.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Satanica

[CAVX]

On 15/09/2017 at 11:21 AM, Satanica said:

Thinking about this I wonder if one could trick the JVC software into thinking the Spyder 5 light meter is the right way facing but actually calibrated it with the wrong way facing.

Then it would be capturing the light off the screen rather than what's coming out of the projector.

It makes sense to measure and adjust the reflected light off the screen  given that is what you watch.  

[betty boop]

On 17/09/2017 at 9:55 AM, CAVX said:

It makes sense to measure and adjust the reflected light off the screen  given that is what you watch.  

Have you had a chance to give it go as yet as per defined procedure cavx. Would do that first and love your feed back especially given your back ground. There are pages upon pages on avs and good volumes and wealth of info. and a very small outlay in scheme of things   There are professional calibrators using as well so some you can confer with as well if needed.

[STAIN0]

regretfully i could not make the gtg.

would have been great to meet up face to face, i have been pestering @IMDave via email and pm's non stop haha.

Hopefully i will get to the next one, or possibly even host one as my room is pretty much good to go now.

 

[betty boop]

1 hour ago, STAIN0 said:

regretfully i could not make the gtg.

would have been great to meet up face to face, i have been pestering @IMDave via email and pm's non stop haha.

Hopefully i will get to the next one, or possibly even host one as my room is pretty much good to go now.

 

Staino, indeed a pity couldn't make it. and yes be great if could host a session, I sure could use a revisit with the autocal. Good to hear your room is pretty close as well  . 

[STAIN0]

not as pretty as some, but here's a teaser pic

[drummerboy01]

I could not resist my self and picked up a new movie today in 4k so I have to get around to doing my x5500 as I need to brighten my image up when viewing 4k movies as some scenes are a little dark.Wonder how Kazz went with her projector.

[drummerboy01]

Damm I live so far away.

[YourMateDyl]

1 minute ago, drummerboy01 said:

I could not resist my self and picked up a new movie today in 4k so I have to get around to doing my x5500 as I need to brighten my image up when viewing 4k movies as some scenes are a little dark.Wonder how Kazz went with her projector.

Pretty sure it was a fail mate. Which is unfortunate because I have a x5000 too - so would have been interested to see the results.
I'd be keen on attending a session if another comes up in the Melbourne area. I reckon i'll get one of those Spyders. 

[IMDave]

Alanah Myles eat your heart out.

Looking good @STAIN0

 

[drummerboy01]

28 minutes ago, Dylan86.exe said:

Pretty sure it was a fail mate. Which is unfortunate because I have a x5000 too - so would have been interested to see the results.
I'd be keen on attending a session if another comes up in the Melbourne area. I reckon i'll get one of those Spyders. 

Same here Dylan and they are not that expensive.