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GIESELER Groß DAC official release


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3 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Raffinator I would have thought directly in via the Amanero USB would sound best especially since it has a vastly superior PSU but you never know. A listening test is the only certain way to verify this.

 

Now that's interesting.

 

Would the ISO regen have a similar effect?

 

Also just found out the Singxer only does 384 and not 768 which I really wanted to use - like I said up-sampling was just amazing through my DS - it was a joke.

 

I may stick with the Amanero - evidently that high in sampling jitter is much less of an isssue.

 

Anyway when i lend you my PC (remember it runs off battery) you can check it out.

 

Thanks

Bill

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Hi everyone I would like to present my new Groß DAC. It is based on the AKM4497EQ DAC chip running in software mode with a onboard micro controller.There are three digital inputs, Async USB

Current version has a few small changes. Smaller power switch. Display moved up a bit  Groß DAC now on the back

Not sure if this is the right thread to post in but thought I was overdue sharing my opinion on Clays Groß dac.  I have the USB only version, my source is a  Sotm SMS200 Ultra. At the moment

Hi Bill,

thank you very much for the generous loan/demo use of your unit. The addition of the iso Regen will be great too.

Also I like the idea of shipping say one unit to a major city & then local pick up from that point on. Transportation via freight companies is always a risk so the less of that the better. The Jensen transformers are quite heavy so I might have to add some extra internal  foam support between them & the lid which can be removed before  use. 

OK I better finish off the parts costing & work out the price.

 

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PRICE

I was not originally planing on using the much higher specked & larger Jensen line output transformers so that has pushed my parts cost up quite a bit. Also I have ended up using more expensive regulators plus larger capacitors & few other upgraded parts.

Bottom line is I am over budget on my original estimate. 

I had originally estimated about $2k so I'm going to stick to that price for the first five orders & then revise it after that. It will probably end up at about $2350.

So the offical introductory price for the first five units is $2000

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52 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

PRICE

I was not originally planing on using the much higher specked & larger Jensen line output transformers so that has pushed my parts cost up quite a bit. Also I have ended up using more expensive regulators plus larger capacitors & few other upgraded parts.

Bottom line is I am over budget on my original estimate. 

I had originally estimated about $2k so I'm going to stick to that price for the first five orders & then revise it after that. It will probably end up at about $2350.

So the offical introductory price for the first five units is $2000

Clay, if it is that good I think you are selling too cheap.

 

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Hi guys,

well I'm off on a flying start - three sold! 

Snoopy8 is going with a USB only version so rather than just leave the S/PDIF parts out I will order a new board.

USB only will be slightly less due to no S/PDIF section. 

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Hi Guys

 

Just letting people know I have ordered mine from Clay with the Singxer and will see if it makes any diffference with mine using HQPayer or the Aries which Clay also has.  I dont want to lend mine out, which I am very happy to do, until I get the ISO USB Regen and sort out what sounds best.

 

If it bests my Direct Stream - bye bye DS - but not before plenty of people get a chance to hear it, take it along to a Queensland Audio Club meeting etc etc.

 

I am dying to do the following comparison:

 

1.  Killler

2.  Direct Stream

3.  Direct Stream Junior

4.  Clay's DAC.

5.   Explorer 2

 

Thanks

Bill 

Edited by bhobba
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Four confirmed sales now so only one left at $2k

OK there will be a small delay as I'm out of Amenero USB boards at the moment but have more on order.

It is probably going to be about two weeks before I can start shipping out Groß DACs so please be patient. 

I will have a more accurate ETA when I hear from Amanero about when my order ships. Orders will take priority 

but when that's done I will get onto some demo units. 

Hey guys thanks for your fantastic support on my new DAC. I'm will be really looking forward to reading some SNA feedback once the first buyers receive their units. 

Well I was going to relax tomorrow but now I think I better go into work & start pre-populating some Groß circuit boards.

 

 

 

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Hi Jermain,

sorry I dident see your PM untill just now. OK done! I will PM you the details.

Well guys the introductory first five units at $2k are now sold out.

Thanks again for your support & faith in my products.

 

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Just in case anyone was wondering about this

                                         ß

(from wikipedia)

 

The letter ß (also known as sharp S, German: esszett or scharfes S) is a letter in the German alphabet. It is the only German letter that is not part of the basic Latin alphabet. The letter is pronounced (like the "s" in "see"). The ß character is not used in any other languages.

 

 How do you say this ß?

A double 's' (written 'ss' or 'ß') is always pronounced as an unvoiced English 's' in words such as 'seal' or 'self'. This sound is written 'ss' when the preceding vowel in a word is short. It is written 'ß': after a long vowel e.g. 'Fuß', 'Maß', 'Spaß'

 

Origin

The letter ß in today's form was created around 1900. It has two origins, one in Blackletter and one in Roman type. The letter came from the long s (ſ) and the normal 's' which when handwritten, over time, joined together to form a single glyph.

 

Edited by Gieseler Audio
Grammar
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19 hours ago, bhobba said:

Hi Guys

 

 

 

If it bests my Direct Stream - bye bye DS - but not before plenty of people get a chance to hear it, take it along to a Queensland Audio Club meeting etc etc.

 

I am dying to do the following comparison:

 

1.  Killler

2.  Direct Stream

3.  Direct Stream Junior

4.  Clay's DAC.

5.   Explorer 2

 

Thanks

Bill 

As a DS owner I will certainly be interested to hear these comparisons.

I have always believed that Clay will produce a DAC that will beat them all.

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11 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Jermain,

sorry I dident see your PM untill just now. OK done! I will PM you the details.

Well guys the introductory first five units at $2k are now sold out.

Thanks again for your support & faith in my products.

 

alot of big(groß), black dac lovers in here

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Good question!

The PDX had a nice rich organic type of sound (typical of a good tube preamp)  but when you listened critically there was definately colouration in the sound. The Groß DAC seems to to have that nice tube type signature to the sound but when you listen critically it is a more accurate & cleaner sound. Bass is much tighter & faster but still well extended. The same with the top end, initially it may seem quite smooth & relaxed but if you listen carefully all the detail is there. 

However that is just my opinion & the real test will be feed back from the SNA members when they receive their units.

For the record I have done some tests on the Groß DAC & it measures spectacularly. I tried a 1 k square wave & 20k sign wave & they were both perfect. Happy to post the scope shots if anyone is interested.

 

Now down to business. I need to get the front panel sorted.

Do we want just want GIESELER on the  LH top side & then Groß DAC on the back?

Or Groß DAC on the top RH side but in the same font as GIESELER - or maybe a smaller font?

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3 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Now down to business. I need to get the front panel sorted.

Do we want just want GIESELER on the  LH top side & then Groß DAC on the back?

Or Groß DAC on the top RH side but in the same font as GIESELER - or maybe a smaller font?

 

Your asking a Marketing question from a group that would mostly fit into the OCD category...

Best of luck with that...

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Just now, Snoopy8 said:

Groß DAC on the back is my preference..

 

Just now, Rob181 said:

Your asking a Marketing question from a group that would mostly fit into the OCD category...

Best of luck with that...

 

The defence rests...

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21 minutes ago, Cardiiiii said:

Maybe Gieseler on the top left and just the beta sign on the top right? 

 

Beta Testers? ;)

 

Clay, my preference is just Gieseler on front, Groß DAC on the back.

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On 01/09/2017 at 7:45 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

 

Also I like the idea of shipping say one unit to a major city & then local pick up from that point on. Transportation via freight companies is always a risk so the less of that the better. The Jensen transformers are quite heavy so I might have to add some extra internal  foam support between them & the lid which can be removed before  use. 

OK I better finish off the parts costing & work out the price.

 

 

You may want to consider the ones for transport to find available space on the pcb where you can have holes large enough beside the heavy components  for a cable tie to strap and secure them physically so they don't detached themselves from the pcb while transport.    

Don't think like some do where I've seen notorisious work where components are left hanging in free space and claiming " short signal path " and other BS excuses. It's bad economics and encourages faults to occur.  

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Hi Guys & thanks for the feedback - looks like no model name on the front is the most popular choice among new purchasers.

Unfortunately I can't offer it as a custom option as the cnc programming is a bit involved & I do the panels in batches.

 

Hey one more important question.

The AK4497EQ has a special bypass option that only works in DSD mode. When turned on the DSD signal bypasses quite a bit of the internal circuitry.

The idea is less processing for a DSD signal & I guess improved sound. 

This feature is available on the Konverter but I must admit I personally struggle to hear any difference.

Now for the important Part. On the Groß DAC I use the AK4497EQ internal antenuator to control the output level.

My concern is that say you were playing a DSD track with the DAC fed directly into a power amp (using variable out on the remote) & you accidentally

turned bypass on. The internal antenuator is bypassed & volume goes to max. Goodbye speakers.

This is not a problem for anyone using the DAC into a preamp or integrated amp as you would have the DAC level at max anyway.

So my question is - do I leave the bypass option in & have a big warning in the manual ?

or do I just remove the bypass option?

The other option is for owners that are going to hook the DAC directly into their power amps I could have the bypass disabled 

& for normal amp/preamp use leave the option in. I just have two different firmware's.

 

 

59abb5294fefe_AK4497EQblockdiagram.gif.443bc4a190da12d00536710643414eca.gif

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Clay, I can’t speak for the other users, but my intention is going into a preamp. Otherwise I would have gone for the Konverter.

So I think “big warning” and bypass stays in. If you can handle two firmwares that would be great.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Regarding the faceplate, if you're still going to machine a version with the regular font, maybe create a thread with pictures of that, and a poll for a definitive verdict?

 

As for the AK4497EQ settings, I would be using the DAC with an integrated amplifier, so I would welcome having the DSD mode circuitry bypass.

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Hi Clay

 

I don't see anyone from Perth on the list.... Might be time to update my Klein DAC.

 

Let me know if you need someone over here to co-ordinate a trial unit.

 

Cheers Dave

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Suggest firmware option.  For my setup to powered speakers, need bypass disabled.  Having a warning in manual is not good enough.  I can see the possibility of someone sitting on the remote and accidentally enabling bypass.  :oops::ohmy::sorry::angry2::excl::blush::angry:

 

shot.jpg

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Added shotdown...
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1 hour ago, krebetman said:

Could the firmware support a fixed volume option that allowed the bypass, plus a variable option that disabled bypass?

 

I think something like this should be automatic supported.  Once in variable mode it should be done in a way to disable bypass.

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Hey Clay,

Although when (not if) I get one I plan to run through a pre, however if I wanted to  change in the future, or if someone accidentally hit the remote, or if I ever sold it on and the person didn't read the manual, it's bye bye speakers.

I think it's just to much of a risk for users and for you in the long run, to leave the bypass in place. You don't ever want your DAC to become infamously known as the "speaker killer"!!! ;-)

I'd suggest if people want the bypass in place they should ask for it specifically, but even then the risks remain. With that in mind, and virtually no detectable difference in sound (by you at least), I just don't think the risk justifies the return.

Can't wait to hear it!

Cheers,

Steve :-)

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