Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Gieseler Audio

GIESELER Groß DAC official release

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Ive got a shitty ps audio bhk Signature Preamp with some rare haltron tungsram holland 12au7s in it. Damn, guess I need 

to upgrade. 

Haha ok you didnt say that you had a pre-amp in the chain. Strangely I did find the DSJ better with a PS Audio BHK Pre/Power combination playing through $40,000 pmc speakers (theres the synergy thing - yes I dont underestimate that), but the bass was still rolled off and wooly in comparison, and the imaging was diffuse and smaller in comparison (I put the GroB straight into the same system afterwards), but I suppose it does come down to taste. @scumbag I'd like to hear your system...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest scumbag
17 hours ago, custom_made said:

@scumbag
Did Bill bring the kraftwerk the first time you compared the grob and dsj?

That's what I was alluding to in my last post. No. It was not. Hence the new comparison. 

Edited by scumbag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest scumbag

Guys, I'm not trying to crap on the grob dac. Please realise that. If I didn't own a dsj and was in the market for a new dac I might well have bought a grob. And kept the change. 

Edited by scumbag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Not wanting to derail the thread but I don’t think anyone thinks you are. You are just posting your experiences which have just as much validity as Max’s. 

We all hear differently and as many posts I see from Max praising the Grob I see many more praising the vanquished products (he says) against other high-end gear. 

e.g https://darko.audio/2019/01/chord-dave-vs-ps-audio-directstream/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Guys, I'm not trying to crap on the grob dac. Please realise that. If I didn't own a dsj and was in the market for a new dac I might well have bought a grob. And kept the c change. 

A good debate is healthy and should be encouraged.  All you have said is you prefer your DAC which is perfectly fine and the reason you bought it.

 

I sold my Naim CDX2 player as I preferred this DAC there will be a lot of Naim fans that wouldn't understand this.

 

Your next comparison will be well received by me and many others I'm sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest scumbag

And I've been very careful to not state that one is better than the other. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can I suggest you get a decent Pre-amp in the system and try again. PS Audio DSJ is no where near anywhere as good, and the difference in the sound quality is significant, which leads me to make my suggestion if you couldn't hear the difference. Recommend a good active pre-amp if you want to hear the potential of your system, it kills the sound without it. And you've got a great power amp. Many people have tried running without a Pre and you'll find stories all over the internet of people realising that they've made a mistake and it sounds better with a good pre.


100% correct, I was always a believer in a minimalistic signal chain - was!!!!
Found a big improvement when I put my Pass designed buffer between the DAC and amp. It's seems the DAC really likes the correct impedance loading. Understandable really....

So must have 's, good pre or buffer stage like the Pass or Burson if you want the best from this DAC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


15 hours ago, frankn said:

Not wanting to derail the thread but I don’t think anyone thinks you are. You are just posting your experiences which have just as much validity as Max’s. 

We all hear differently and as many posts I see from Max praising the Grob I see many more praising the vanquished products (he says) against other high-end gear. 

e.g https://darko.audio/2019/01/chord-dave-vs-ps-audio-directstream/

So true.  A quote i will never forget from an audiophile in SG whose system i heard a while back, and still today is considered my benchmark.  Quote - 'Everyone's ears and perception of music vary, and so does the amount of earwax in one's ears'....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest scumbag
16 hours ago, frankn said:

Not wanting to derail the thread but I don’t think anyone thinks you are. You are just posting your experiences which have just as much validity as Max’s. 

We all hear differently and as many posts I see from Max praising the Grob I see many more praising the vanquished products (he says) against other high-end gear. 

e.g https://darko.audio/2019/01/chord-dave-vs-ps-audio-directstream/

As Darkos states: "These are but a handful of reasons as to why no absolute best exists when trying to choose between these two high-end DACs. There is only best for you. (And I don’t know you)." Ditto the DSJ and the Grob. And the Grob is a fraction of the cost of the DSJ and works better without a preamp (an additional cost).

Edited by scumbag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, scumbag said:

 And the Grob is a fraction of the cost of the DSJ and works better without a preamp (an additional cost).

Fully agree the Grob is superb value for money and able to compete with the likes of a DSJ etc. But, it needs a valve preamp. Was a believer of "best preamp is no preamp" and ran the Grob without a preamp for 6 months. Changed to a hybrid valve, now on a valve preamp.  Without a preamp, the Grob was detailed but "clinically clean". Adding a valve preamp provided the warmth and improved the bass. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Fully agree the Grob is superb value for money and able to compete with the likes of a DSJ etc. But, it needs a valve preamp. Was a believer of "best preamp is no preamp" and ran the Grob without a preamp for 6 months. Changed to a hybrid valve, now on a valve preamp.  Without a preamp, the Grob was detailed but "clinically clean". Adding a valve preamp provided the warmth and improved the bass. 

Mirrors my experience running a source component with digital attenuation in play, especially when your power amp is solid state.   In addition, IMO, the best place for tubes in the chain is the preamp, but others may disagree FWIW..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


3 hours ago, katattack74 said:

Mirrors my experience running a source component with digital attenuation in play, especially when your power amp is solid state.   In addition, IMO, the best place for tubes in the chain is the preamp, but others may disagree FWIW..

The Gross would need an analog input with attenuation before I could do away with a preamp. Besides,  I think the LTA MZ2 adds something special to the sound ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest scumbag

No arguments from me. The best combo i have found is digital front end, a tube preamp and solid state power amp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/01/2019 at 10:21 PM, scumbag said:

And I've been very careful to not state that one is better than the other. 

I know I'm a bit 'enthusiastic' when it comes to my reviews and comparisons, and @scumbag experience is just as valid as minbe or any one elses. Yes it comes down to taste also so I respect that. It also comes down to system synergy, and quality of the other components in the system and how revealing they are.

 

I'd still say though that if you were to put a Chrod DAC up against a PS Audio DAC and you asked people which reproduced the energy and quality of instruments playing in a room more authentically, the Chord DACs would win hands down. If you put the GroB or Fein DACs up against the PS Audio DS, the Geiseler DACs have massively better bass control, tone, detail and extension, and paint a more spacious and airy sound stage. People may like the PS Audio DS but its no where near other DACs for raising the quality of music reproduction.

 

But a person may like the sound of the PS Audio DS over other DACs is totally understandable. It doesn't challenge your system to perform and I find it quite easy to listen to, if a little unexciting and overly warm. But that is ofcourse my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just letting everyone know there is a new Amanero firmware called

DSD512x44x48

Good for DSD users with Window based servers.

I will do some testing & report back.

 

 

Update regarding different Amanero firmware's - may be useful for other DAC owners that use the Amanero Combo384 board.


Setup is;
Linux - Auralic Aries mini with the latest firmware.
Windows - basic PC windows 7 running JRiver MC25.
DAC - Fein DAC II using the AK4493  - results may vary on other DAC's tho.

 

CDP_for_1081/DSD512x44x48
is fine in windows at all sample rates inc DSD512
In Linux it is fine on PCM & DSD64/128 but DSD256/512 just white noise.

 

CDP_for_1080/2003be_71A
on my Auralic Aries mini it is perfect on PCM & all DSD rates including DSD512
Seems rock solid even on micoRendu & SOtM devices as well.

Note this firmware does not work at all with Windows.

 

CDP_for_1080/1099c
I find this the best all rounder.
In Linux - PCM all good & DSD64/128/256 fine. DSD512 will play but slightly distorted
At least for my customers that is better than loud white noise tho.
On Windows - perfect all rates including DSD512.

 

 

Edited by Gieseler Audio
added info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


7 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Just letting everyone know there is a new Amanero firmware called

DSD512x44x48

Good for DSD users with Window based servers.

I will do some testing & report back.

 

 

Update regarding different Amanero firmware's - may be useful for other DAC owners that use the Amanero Combo384 board.


Setup is;
Linux - Auralic Aries mini with the latest firmware.
Windows - basic PC windows 7 running JRiver MC25.
DAC - Fein DAC II using the AK4493  - results may vary on other DAC's tho.

 

CDP_for_1081/DSD512x44x48
is fine in windows at all sample rates inc DSD512
In Linux it is fine on PCM & DSD64/128 but DSD256/512 just white noise.

 

CDP_for_1080/2003be_71A
on my Auralic Aries mini it is perfect on PCM & all DSD rates including DSD512
Seems rock solid even on micoRendu & SOtM devices as well.

Note this firmware does not work at all with Windows.

 

CDP_for_1080/1099c
I find this the best all rounder.
In Linux - PCM all good & DSD64/128/256 fine. DSD512 will play but slightly distorted
At least for my customers that is better than loud white noise tho.
On Windows - perfect all rates including DSD512.

 

 

Clay, I assume this is not relevant to Apple users?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Russ,

 

good point. 

2003be_71A is a no go on Mac but 1099c worked reasonable well with a Mac-book air I borrowed.

I only managed DSD64/128 - probably needed to spend more time fiddling with the settings.

Software player was JRiver MC v25.

When I get a chance I will borrow the Mac-book again & try DSD512x44x48 - it will be interesting to see how that performs.

Edited by Gieseler Audio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi Russ,

 

good point. 

2003be_71A is a no go on Mac but 1099c worked reasonable well with a Mac-book air I borrowed.

I only managed DSD64/128 - probably needed to spend more time fiddling with the settings.

Software player was JRiver MC v25.

When I get a chance I will borrow the Mac-book again & try DSD512x44x48 - it will be interesting to see how that performs.

I’m really happy with the Gross , Clay. 

I upsample most of my 16/44 files to dsd 256 with Audivarna on my iMac - sounding really good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback Russ.

I think you have 1099c firmware in your Amanero so I have a feeling that is

probably the best for a Mac. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Just letting everyone know there is a new Amanero firmware called

DSD512x44x48

Good for DSD users with Window based servers.

I will do some testing & report back.

 

Hey @Gieseler Audio, what does the firmware do for PCM or is it only for DSD?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Richard,

it is just for DSD512 playback compatibility in Windows systems.

Not necessary  for Gross or Fein DAC's though as the 1099c firmware I install in the Amanero plays DSD512 fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30/04/2019 at 7:05 AM, Gieseler Audio said:

Just letting everyone know there is a new Amanero firmware called

DSD512x44x48

Good for DSD users with Window based servers.

I will do some testing & report back.

 

 

Update regarding different Amanero firmware's - may be useful for other DAC owners that use the Amanero Combo384 board.


Setup is;
Linux - Auralic Aries mini with the latest firmware.
Windows - basic PC windows 7 running JRiver MC25.
DAC - Fein DAC II using the AK4493  - results may vary on other DAC's tho.

 

CDP_for_1081/DSD512x44x48
is fine in windows at all sample rates inc DSD512
In Linux it is fine on PCM & DSD64/128 but DSD256/512 just white noise.

 

CDP_for_1080/2003be_71A
on my Auralic Aries mini it is perfect on PCM & all DSD rates including DSD512
Seems rock solid even on micoRendu & SOtM devices as well.

Note this firmware does not work at all with Windows.

 

CDP_for_1080/1099c
I find this the best all rounder.
In Linux - PCM all good & DSD64/128/256 fine. DSD512 will play but slightly distorted
At least for my customers that is better than loud white noise tho.
On Windows - perfect all rates including DSD512.

 

 

Is it worthwhile my getting this one thanks Clay?

Edited by MattyW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Matty,

no - I think you have 1099c which is really good.

Hi have since found out that the DSD512x44x48

firmware

was developed for DSD issues in the T+A DAC 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, very nice.  Nothing further required :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...