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GIESELER Groß DAC official release

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1 hour ago, buddyev said:

 I'm a mac & Audivarna  user and can't upsample a DSD file - only plays original size. But I can upsample a pcm to the highest dsd sample rate. Seems to be a quirk of the mac - is that right?

I don't actually have any DSD files, so I'm upsampling PCM to DSD...... I'm on Windows 10 Pro and the latest JRiver

Edited by MattyW

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1 hour ago, buddyev said:

 I'm a mac & Audivarna  user and can't upsample a DSD file - only plays original size. But I can upsample a pcm to the highest dsd sample rate. Seems to be a quirk of the mac - is that right?

I think that is right, at least with trying to output from my Mac Mini via USB.

 

But I can use the Mac to do upsampling to DSD512 using Roon, then output via an endpoint (ultraRendu).

 

Occasionally I lose connection. I think it is because I’m pushing the 2013 Mini to the limit. Might also be the wireless network.

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14 hours ago, Raffinator said:

I think that is right, at least with trying to output from my Mac Mini via USB.

 

But I can use the Mac to do upsampling to DSD512 using Roon, then output via an endpoint (ultraRendu).

 

Occasionally I lose connection. I think it is because I’m pushing the 2013 Mini to the limit. Might also be the wireless network.

So you can upsample a dsd file from 64 to 256? Ok - that’s interesting. I thought it was a Mac peculiarity that it wouldn’t allow it. Maybe it’s something to do with Audivarna - I must investigate further.

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Why would upsampling make a diff unless the processing of DSD vs PCM in the DAC is better in for one of the formats/samples? There isn't any new information being created in the upsampling.

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17 minutes ago, als said:

Why would upsampling make a diff unless the processing of DSD vs PCM in the DAC is better in for one of the formats/samples? There isn't any new information being created in the upsampling.

DACs sometimes internally upsample. The theory is that an external upsample process is better, faster, more accurate than a chip and the DAC is served its ideal rate and format.

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Just now, Snoopy8 said:

DACs sometimes internally upsample. The theory is that an external upsample process is better, faster, more accurate than a chip and the DAC is served its ideal rate and format.

Got it - cheers.

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Might have missed the post - has Clay mentioned what is the ideal format/sample for the grob and/or whether it may make a diff (also interested if there is similiar thoughts on the Klien III - I know it's a diff thread)?

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16 hours ago, Raffinator said:

I think that is right, at least with trying to output from my Mac Mini via USB.

 

But I can use the Mac to do upsampling to DSD512 using Roon, then output via an endpoint (ultraRendu).

 

Occasionally I lose connection. I think it is because I’m pushing the 2013 Mini to the limit. Might also be the wireless network.

Just put more ram in your Mac and it will be fine. I’ve put 16 gig ram in my Mac mini and no problems upsampling in Roon

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3 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Just put more ram in your Mac and it will be fine. I’ve put 16 gig ram in my Mac mini and no problems upsampling in Roon

I had 8G and a 2.8 quad core i7 Macbook and it still didn't have enough grunt to upsample from redbook to DSD 512.  But just upsampling to single DSD was a not subtle improvement from 44.1.  I don't believe RAM was a problem, simply it needed more processing grunt from the likes of a quad 3.4 processor.

 

This was not with a Gross DAC, but relative here.

 

I recently parted with the Macbook though as I just found it a dog to use.  I am not a Mac person and couldn't get my head around how their operating system works.  I'm too old and grumpy to learn new tricks it seems.

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People are getting all hung up on upsampling... I’d suggest just leaving everything at default. Every time I upsample using Roon on my Mac to my DACS the sound seems to have a bit more ‘air’ around the individual instruments and performers but it’s slight, and is offset by an obvious and unpleasant thinning and artificial quality. When you get the chance to play / source high res or dsd music great, but I’d suggest people stop messing with their DACs and settings and just enjoy the music. It’s more important that the music and file was mastered properly- get really well crafted Redbook music and you’ll be amazed at how good it sounds. Hi res and dsd isn’t a guarantee of better sound quality. And you have to have a system that can clearly reveal the difference/improvement so you may not even hear a difference sometimes. Clayton’s DACs are seriously good for the money so just buy one and enjoy your music, trust me your ears will thank you fir it. I’ve tried the GroB up against a few very well known and reviewed DACs and there was no comparison. I’m also trying the Fein and that DAC is seriously good. 

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als,

I think the AK4497EQ DAC chip (used in Gross) works exceptionally well at decoding native DSD files.

There is even a optional DSD vol bypass mode that totally bypasses the Delta-sigma section of the DAC.

However the results with PCM material is also excellent. 

I think with critical listening DSD can sound a little better but it totally depends on the source/encoding of the 

track used.

 

Max Headroom - excellent overall summary

Edited by Gieseler Audio

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1 minute ago, Gieseler Audio said:

als,

I think the AK4497EQ DAC chip (used in Gross) works exceptionally well at decoding native DSD files.

There is even a optional DSD vol bypass mode that totally bypasses the Delta-sigma section of the DAC.

However the results with PCM material is also excellent. 

I think with critical listening DSD can sound a little better but it totally depends on the source/encoding of the 

track used.

Cheers Clay!

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36 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

als,

I think the AK4497EQ DAC chip (used in Gross) works exceptionally well at decoding native DSD files.

There is even a optional DSD vol bypass mode that totally bypasses the Delta-sigma section of the DAC.

However the results with PCM material is also excellent. 

I think with critical listening DSD can sound a little better but it totally depends on the source/encoding of the 

track used.

 

Max Headroom - excellent overall summary

I’ll just add one more comment. Hi-res and DSD files sound superb through the Geiseler DACs, and yes can often sound better than straight 44/16 redbook files, but that’s dependent on quite a few factors. The Geiseler DACs make the most of any file you send to it though. From personal experience, and if the PS Audio DirectStream DAC is anything to go by, I’d comfortably suggest the Geiseler GroB and Fein compete in a price bracket 3 to 4 times their price... they leave the DS seriously wanting. I’ve got a system that will show the differences clearly and there was no competition. The Geiseler DACs just give you amazing musical pleasure for the dollars you pay. 

Edited by Max Headroom

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2 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

People are getting all hung up on upsampling... I’d suggest just leaving everything at default. Every time I upsample using Roon on my Mac to my DACS the sound seems to have a bit more ‘air’ around the individual instruments and performers but it’s slight, and is offset by an obvious and unpleasant thinning and artificial quality. When you get the chance to play / source high res or dsd music great, but I’d suggest people stop messing with their DACs and settings and just enjoy the music. It’s more important that the music and file was mastered properly- get really well crafted Redbook music and you’ll be amazed at how good it sounds. Hi res and dsd isn’t a guarantee of better sound quality. And you have to have a system that can clearly reveal the difference/improvement so you may not even hear a difference sometimes. Clayton’s DACs are seriously good for the money so just buy one and enjoy your music, trust me your ears will thank you fir it. I’ve tried the GroB up against a few very well known and reviewed DACs and there was no comparison. I’m also trying the Fein and that DAC is seriously good. 

We’re not getting hung up, we’re interested in getting the best we can out of our systems. The only way to do that is play around and try different things. 

 

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13 hours ago, Gieseler Audio said:

I think the AK4497EQ DAC chip (used in Gross) works exceptionally well at decoding native DSD files.

There is even a optional DSD vol bypass mode that totally bypasses the Delta-sigma section of the DAC.

Hi Clay,

is it possible to listen with this optional DSD vol bypass mode with the Gross?

Thanks

 

Matt

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5 minutes ago, matth said:

is it possible to listen with this optional DSD vol bypass mode with the Gross?

When vol set to 100, bypass is automatically enabled.

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14 hours ago, matth said:

The chip for the next generation Gross?

 

https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4499EQ&link_id=link5073

 

128 pins to solder !!!

 

Matt

Hi Clay,

is it possible to use output transformers with the Current Output Architecture of AK4499?

Thanks

 

Matt

Edited by matth

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Been listening to music all day and can't believe how much things have improved with the power supply upgrade....

 

Unfortunately you've triggered my upgrade bug which has been in hibernation a while now.... With a baby on the way I need a decent headphone amp so figured I could kill two birds with one stone.  Bidding on a used Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2.... As usual I can't imagine it outdoing the Schiit Saga passive though what if it does? At the very least I gain headphone capability :)

Edited by MattyW

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Good luck with the LTA MicroZotl 2, excellent when used with the Gross, love it as a headphone amp, wonderful preamp.

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Fingers crossed :)

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On 08/12/2018 at 10:36 PM, Godot said:

Good luck with the LTA MicroZotl 2, excellent when used with the Gross, love it as a headphone amp, wonderful preamp.

Won it.... More than I wanted to pay though a good deal less than buying new with linear psu upgrade.  I'll continue in a thread of its own rather than clog up Clays. 

 

More on topic with respect to the Gross + PSU upgrade.  Plenty of wow moments including another where I thought water was running in the house (was in the music). Everything sounding just so utterly real it's incredible :)

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I'm No Audiophile,but I seek great sounding music.
Here is my technical explanation of the Grob n PSU.
"CLAY" you've done it again.
This thing rocks.20181217_150409.jpg

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Guest scumbag
3 minutes ago, craka said:


This thing rocks.

That's ultimately all that matters. 😃

Edited by scumbag

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That's all I need from it.
Mark20181217_150112.jpg

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