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GIESELER Groß DAC official release

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6 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said:

Hmmm and back to earth lol. 

Is that a bad thing? As in am I still using this DAC to its potential? 

Clay and the owner base can answer that better! I have had a lot of success with SPDIF coaxial in the past but that's with other DAC's.

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41 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said:

Hmmm and back to earth lol. 

Is that a bad thing? As in am I still using this DAC to its potential? 

Have not heard any complaints from the owners of 3 input version Gross and there are many of them.  It is slightly more expensive and more versatile. 

 

p/s have the usb only version; had S/PDIF in previous DAC and never used it.

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Hi jakey,

OK the best connection between the Bluesound Node2 & the Gross would be the coaxial RCA digital out on the Bluesound.

AFAIK the Bluesound does not output a DSD digital signal & the Gross can not accept a DSD signal via the coax or optical. 

This is pretty normal & very few DAC's will decode a DSD coax/optical signal.

On the other hand the Gross will do superb DSD decoding but you need a streamer/server with USB out like a SOtM SMS-200 or Microrendu or PC/Mac.

There was a Brisbane SNA'er using a Bluesound Node2 with the Gross & he was very happy with the results.

Bill125812

However he has now moved to a Auralic Aries (USB out) & found the sound better again.

Also  the Gross will only display the music sample rate info when using a USB input.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Clay

Edited by Gieseler Audio

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8 minutes ago, Gieseler Audio said:

Hi jakey,

OK the best connection between the Bluesound Node2 & the Gross would be the coaxial RCA digital out on the Bluesound.

AFAIK the Bluesound does not output a DSD digital signal & the Gross can not accept a DSD signal via the coax or optical. 

This is pretty normal & very few DAC's will decode a DSD coax/optical signal.

On the other hand the Gross will do superb DSD decoding but you need a streamer/server with USB out like a SOtM SMS-200 or Microrendu or PC/Mac.

There was a Brisbane SNA'er using a Bluesound Node2 with the Gross & he was very happy with the results.

Bill125812

However he has now moved to a Auralic Aries (USB out) & found the sound better again.

Also  the Gross will only display the music sample rate info when using a USB input.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Clay

Thanks Clay. 

Its so hard to get two pieces of this puzzle working. For me anyway.

I’ll look deeper into the options. 

 

*** issues arise partly from my own fault. The SOTM is less than appealing looking to me. Shallow as I am. 

Edited by jakeyb77

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1 hour ago, jakeyb77 said:

Hmmm and back to earth lol. 

Is that a bad thing? As in am I still using this DAC to its potential? 

You will still be getting the full potential from the dac - just not DSD. 

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20 minutes ago, PKay said:

You will still be getting the full potential from the dac - just not DSD. 

I’m not sure what that means entirely.. I haven’t dived that deep into DSD research. 

I just want to maximise my Tidal experience with a good looking UI and units. Obviously sound is important also 

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I’m not sure what that means entirely.. I haven’t dived that deep into DSD research. 
I just want to maximise my Tidal experience with a good looking UI and units. Obviously sound is important also 

If just for Tidal use - I think you can ignore DSD discussions. It is only for DSD file playback or DSD upsampling, which you won’t do with direct Tidal using BluOS.

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2 minutes ago, Raffinator said:


If just for Tidal use - I think you can ignore DSD discussions. It is only for DSD file playback or DSD upsampling, which you won’t do with direct Tidal using BluOS.
 

Cheers Raff. Yeah it’s all streaming services for me now. I don’t have a storage or hard media anymore. I use vinyl for tactile musical experience. 

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Someone called 

 

I used the Bluesound node 2 connected to the GroB with  my own 75ohm coax cable.  It sounded great.   I have since moved to a SOtM ultra powered by one of clays @Gieseler Audio power supply’s    I actually prefer the SOtM using Roon and my own USB cable connected again to the GroB 

 

But as you rightly said, the Bluesound does look better and stands up well in any sound comparison    Especially connected to the GroB 

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6 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

Someone called 

 

I used the Bluesound node 2 connected to the GroB with  my own 75ohm coax cable.  It sounded great.   I have since moved to a SOtM ultra powered by one of clays @Gieseler Audio power supply’s    I actually prefer the SOtM using Roon and my own USB cable connected again to the GroB 

 

But as you rightly said, the Bluesound does look better and stands up well in any sound comparison    Especially connected to the GroB 

Thanks @Bill125812! Looking forward to trying it out. 

It’s hard to find a player that plays the Tidal Masters without the desktop app. Short of running a Mac mini but then it’s the same cash anyways. 

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Just now, jakeyb77 said:

Thanks @Bill125812! Looking forward to trying it out. 

It’s hard to find a player that plays the Tidal Masters without the desktop app. Short of running a Mac mini but then it’s the same cash anyways. 

It certainly does that through its own app.  Very nice it is to 

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2 hours ago, Bill125812 said:

Someone called 

 

I used the Bluesound node 2 connected to the GroB with  my own 75ohm coax cable.  It sounded great.   I have since moved to a SOtM ultra powered by one of clays @Gieseler Audio power supply’s    I actually prefer the SOtM using Roon and my own USB cable connected again to the GroB 

 

But as you rightly said, the Bluesound does look better and stands up well in any sound comparison    Especially connected to the GroB 

I did the same, but DAC is a 2Qute. I’m just about to try Snoopy’s Gieseler power supply. The SMS-200 is better than the Bluesound Node 2, but probably mostly after I added a clock and a bunch of other stuff.

 

@jakeyb77 If you don’t want to stump up for Roon the SMS-200 isn’t great for streaming Tidal. Does Clay’s DAC do MQA?

 

Was saying to someone today I miss the Bluesound app. Was easy to use with Tidal and NAS and you don’t need a laptop or separate machine to run it like you do with Roon.

 

Also, Bill’s cables are awesome. And cheap. Some easy upgrades for you there. 

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3 hours ago, jakeyb77 said:

I’m not sure what that means entirely.. I haven’t dived that deep into DSD research. 

I just want to maximise my Tidal experience with a good looking UI and units. Obviously sound is important also 

Node 2 won't play DSD but it will do the MQA unfold if you use the internal dac.  The first level of unfold occurs at the streamer level and the 2nd level of unfold is done by the Node 2 dac. This was part of the sales pitch at Len Wallis when I bought mine.

Edited by PKay

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The uRendu/ultra are great streamers @jakeyb77 and hide in the background as they're very small so visuals are not so important. Doesn't require roon, but I use it ad think it's well worth the money.

The Konverter plays Tidal MQA no problem with my setup, and it's very nice to have all of my digital music in one library (tidal/ripped/downloaded).

Are you absolutely sold on the Node and no Roon? Might be worth reconsidering... 😉

 

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I’m not sure what that means entirely.. I haven’t dived that deep into DSD research. 
I just want to maximise my Tidal experience with a good looking UI and units. Obviously sound is important also 
Don't get too hung up on this DSD / MQA caper - way too many people become obsessed by needing a Swiss pocket knife of options!
A good DAC / streamer combo will still sound brilliant with standard CD 44 bit or Higher 96 /192 .
The Node 2 is a very practical device with a good interface and excellent sound , as I've mentioned to you - happy to demo mine with a Qutest combo which is a great match.

Sounds like the Grob is a good DAC too for the money - yet to hear one in the flesh however .

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10 hours ago, evil c said:

Don't get too hung up on this DSD / MQA caper - way too many people become obsessed by needing a Swiss pocket knife of options!
A good DAC / streamer combo will still sound brilliant with standard CD 44 bit or Higher 96 /192 .
The Node 2 is a very practical device with a good interface and excellent sound , as I've mentioned to you - happy to demo mine with a Qutest combo which is a great match.

Sounds like the Grob is a good DAC too for the money - yet to hear one in the flesh however .

Thats kind of true but IMHO if you have a good collection of DSD files you're better off with a dac/streamer combo that will play them natively and not convert them to PCM. That's why I bought a Gross rather than a Qutest — both were on my shortlist. Maybe part of why DSDs sound so good (I think better)  is because they are more carefully remastered rather than because DSD is an intrinsically better format — I don't know. But DSD capability is not really very relevant if you're streaming Tidal etc or only have PCM or CD rips.

I'd have to say MQA through Tidal is a bit hit and miss, some are great some are oh hum — again i suspect that's probably down to the remastering. 

Edited by buddyev

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4 hours ago, buddyev said:

I'd have to say MQA through Tidal is a bit hit and miss, some are great some are oh hum — again i suspect that's probably down to the remastering. 

At @RussB 's place, we listened to a Tidal MQA version via Roon of my test track, Gjeilo: North Country II on the Gross.  I then played the DSD version of the same track (and all come from the same master). DSD won hands down.  Russ's wallet has been leaking since then.  😁

You also listened to that track at my place where we compared the 24/96 PCM version with DSD.  Again DSD is better. 

There is no doubt that the Gross is superb for DSD.

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Not that I have heard many, but what I have, native DSD is the go.  I simply can't understand why manufacturers believe DSD over PCM is the better route.

 

I heard around the time of the HiFi Show that the Gross DAC actually came to Melb, but only a select few got to hear it.  I certainly wasn't informed and was sure I was on the list.  A great pity that the communication was so poor re this cos I bought something else that cost nearly twice as much instead.

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10 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

At @RussB 's place, we listened to a Tidal MQA version via Roon of my test track, Gjeilo: North Country II on the Gross.  I then played the DSD version of the same track (and all come from the same master). DSD won hands down.  Russ's wallet has been leaking since then.  😁

You also listened to that track at my place where we compared the 24/96 PCM version with DSD.  Again DSD is better. 

There is no doubt that the Gross is superb for DSD.

Yes, native DSD is definitely the king of digital.  But, like vinyl, it’s expensive to buy and theres not so much around, so if you don’t have a decent collection it might not be worth worrying about it. 

 

Snoop - do you think you get the benefits of DSD by upsampling your PCM files to DSD in software, rather than staying with PCM and just upsampling 24/96 to 24/384?

 

I haven’t done enough comparative listening to decide on but I assume it will vary from dac to dac and depend on finding your own dac’s sweet spot. I’m giving my gross another week before really looking into that.

Edited by buddyev

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2 hours ago, buddyev said:

Snoop - do you think you get the benefits of DSD by upsampling your PCM files to DSD in software, rather than staying with PCM and just upsampling 24/96 to 24/384?

I up-sampled a few of my 16/44.1 and 24/96 PCM tracks to DSD128  but could not find significant improvement.  There was maybe a bit better here and there, but nothing consistent.  I even compared the up-sampled DSD128 North Country II (from 24/96 PCM)  to the ripped DSD64 version but the DSD64 was better.  So, my conclusion from this small sample is that the source matters for conversion to DSD.

 

Also, I have a few average SACDs where they appeared to be mastered from PCM material.

 

Inviting @Raffinator who up-samples everything using Roon to at least DSD256.  

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Interestingly I find upsampling to DSD to to be quite noticeable with content on my system from 64 to 128, 256 or 512, the difference is smaller. I up sample everything in JRiver to DSD256. Works well.

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1 hour ago, MattyW said:

Interestingly I find upsampling to DSD to to be quite noticeable with content on my system from 64 to 128, 256 or 512, the difference is smaller. I up sample everything in JRiver to DSD256. Works well.

Maybe the source or steamer could be a factor? Am using SOtM SM-200 Ultra Neo with MPD, music on a NAS.

 

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

Maybe the source or steamer could be a factor? Am using SOtM SM-200 Ultra Neo with MPD, music on a NAS.

 

It could be. Lot's of things to factor in really. Different systems, and room acoustics etc.  Then there's personal listening preferences so hard to tell really. Now that I've experienced what upsampling can do though I'm definitely never going back.

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 I'm a mac & Audivarna  user and can't upsample a DSD file - only plays original size. But I can upsample a pcm to the highest dsd sample rate. Seems to be a quirk of the mac - is that right?

Edited by buddyev

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