GIESELER Groß DAC official release

[pete_mac]

1 hour ago, craka said:

I'm No Audiophile,but I seek great sounding music.
Here is my technical explanation of the Grob n PSU.
"CLAY" you've done it again.
This thing rocks.

 

Nice setup mate! That looks all but identical to mine (including the Curious cable!) but with the big GroB DAC vs the Klein III.

 

I bet she sounds lovely. Enjoy!

 

[PKay]

Being a relative newcomer to the Gieseler Gross Dac I thought it about time to give voice to my experience. Firstly I must admit I was a bit wary of all the SNA hype, I come from the school of if it sounds too good to be true then it most likely isn't. How could something so relatively "cheap" compete with much higher priced dacs? I still don't quite know the answer but from my listening experience it does.  I bought the linear power supply and I haven't looked back. I suspect some of the saving is in the cheaper case, but then who cares about the looks (I do a bit) -  it's how it sounds that is important.

 

I have previously owned a Meitner MA1 dac, had the Metrum Hex and a Naim CDX2 CD player and I have found the Gross Dac to be far more enjoyable than all of them.  It is VERY close to my analogue system which is a reasonably well specced turntable/cart and phono stage.  There has been a lot said about the way it plays DSD and IMO I prefer the way it plays PCM which is the bulk of my music. I have found DSD to be a little bit more laid back than I like but I have still been very impressed.  Compared to the price of some of the other dacs the Gross is incredibly good value, which is most likely the reason why I haven't seen a second hand one on the market to date.  Thanks to @Snoopy8for the heads up, and I must admit I am a huge fan (and won't be selling mine for  a long time).

 

Clay thanks for all of your service and advice - you have been very helpful and easy to get in touch with.

[Snoopy8]

47 minutes ago, PKay said:

I suspect some of the saving is in the cheaper case, but then who cares about the looks (I do a bit) 

Just as well I did not know about your gear and how much you cared about looks!  

52 minutes ago, PKay said:

Thanks to @Snoopy8for the heads up, and I must admit I am a huge fan (and won't be selling mine for  a long time).

Most welcome!  You did ask plenty of questions and at one stage, I did have my doubts on whether I could convince you!  Glad you have joined our very satisfied owner's club. 

 

About the only thing that can convince me to sell is Clay's next top of line DAC.  Pressure is on, Clay ! 

[MattyW]

I'll likely skip a few generations. The Gross is fantastic

[Snoopy8]

7 hours ago, MattyW said:

I'll likely skip a few generations. The Gross is fantastic

Agree the Gross plus PSU is superb, will take something special to replace it.  I did not think it was possible, but it has gone up a notch to be even better value for money.  

[PKay]

23 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Agree the Gross plus PSU is superb, will take something special to replace it.  I did not think it was possible, but it has gone up a notch to be even better value for money.  

I agree, anyone looking to upgrade Dacs should check out the Gross, it is excellent with the standard PSU but is exceptional with the Gieseler PSU upgrade. The best thing is that it sounds great with CD recordings so you don’t need to spend money on higher res. I have started buying cds again to download onto my Antipodes. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by PKay
Typo

[Snoopy8]

53 minutes ago, PKay said:

The best thing is that it sounds great with CD recordings so you don’t need to spend money on higher res. I have started buying cds again to download onto my Antipodes. 

Adding the PSU closed the gap between PCM and DSD. But any difference between high res and CD 16/44.1 PCM was small, to my ears anyway. Often any improvement wth the hi res version was due to a better master.

 

At the end of the day, CD quality and above all sound superb.   

Edited December 28, 2018 by Snoopy8
Typo

[lemarquis]

On 28/12/2018 at 11:19 PM, PKay said:

... the Gross is incredibly good value, which is most likely the reason why I haven't seen a second hand one on the market to date. 

Clay's DACs usually come up for sale shortly after the new model comes out 

[MattyW]

Interesting... there's a new AKM 4499EQ chip come out....  I wonder whether this will perhaps replace the Gross? 

 

If a used Gross goes on the Classifieds at the right price,  I'm snapping it up

 

Might have to get a second Kraftwerk PSU at that point. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by MattyW

[PKay]

1 hour ago, lemarquis said:

Clay's DACs usually come up for sale shortly after the new model comes out 

I’m not sure how Clay is going to better the Gross. I’m currently listening to Jacintha and it is fabulous. Vocals and instruments sound great. She is in the middle and front with instruments clearly behind and to the side of her. It is a very good recording to test out a Dac. One of the things I love about this Dac is the low sibilance. 

 

 

 

 

[amisty]

looking for an upgrade soon, can anyone simple answer how good the GROSS is compared  schiit yggdrasil or PS junior DAC's. Thanks

[Guest scumbag]

9 minutes ago, amisty said:

looking for an upgrade soon, can anyone simple answer how good the GROSS is compared  schiit yggdrasil or PS junior DAC's. Thanks

Using the GroB direct into a Pass Labs XA30.8 versus a Direct Stream Junior - both without a preamp - I and Bill Cochrane @Bill125812 found them quite similar. I think Bill leaned more towards the Grob - then again he did own it so he must have liked the sound signature  Perhaps more bass with the Grob and maybe a bit more dynamic. I didn't try the test with a preamp though the DSJ really does need one to get the full potential. But we are talking about DAC's with 2 quite different price points.

Just to complicate things, there is a new version of the firmware now (since the comparison) for the DSJ that has quite radically changed it's character. It would be interesting to do another comparo with the new firmware in use. The new Snowmass firmware for the DSJ adds bass quantity and texture and has more attack. So it might be closer in round 2. Or the DSJ might tip things too much into the dynamic side of things. It's all subjective and at this point we are largely dealing in different not " better". Still a big difference in RRP!

Edited January 1, 2019 by scumbag

[PKay]

6 hours ago, scumbag said:

Using the GroB direct into a Pass Labs XA30.8 versus a Direct Stream Junior - both without a preamp - I and Bill Cochrane @Bill125812 found them quite similar. I think Bill leaned more towards the Grob - then again he did own it so he must have liked the sound signature  Perhaps more bass with the Grob and maybe a bit more dynamic. I didn't try the test with a preamp though the DSJ really does need one to get the full potential. But we are talking about DAC's with 2 quite different price points.

Just to complicate things, there is a new version of the firmware now (since the comparison) for the DSJ that has quite radically changed it's character. It would be interesting to do another comparo with the new firmware in use. The new Snowmass firmware for the DSJ adds bass quantity and texture and has more attack. So it might be closer in round 2. Or the DSJ might tip things too much into the dynamic side of things. It's all subjective and at this point we are largely dealing in different not " better". Still a big difference in RRP!

Did you try the Gross with the new PSU?

[Bill125812]

I’m getting Clays new PSU very soon for my Gross so a new comparison with the DSJ will happen soon @PKay @scumbag

[PKay]

1 hour ago, Bill125812 said:

I’m getting Clays new PSU very soon for my Gross so a new comparison with the DSJ will happen soon @PKay @scumbag

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Even with the PSU the Gross is less than  half the price of the PS Audio. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by PKay

[MattyW]

Pretty sure there was one chap sold his PS Direct Stream and bought a Groß after a head to head..... Don't recall who it was though.

[Max Headroom]

On 02/01/2019 at 11:09 AM, MattyW said:

Pretty sure there was one chap sold his PS Direct Stream and bought a Groß after a head to head..... Don't recall who it was though.

You would if you did a direct comparison, trust me. And to give the Gieseler an even bigger lead over the PS Audio, pair it with the Kraftwerk power supply and Burson Audio Cable+ Pro impedance matching cables. Leaves anything less than a Hugo TT2 + MScaler ints ist dust. I know, I've tried it.

[Max Headroom]

On 02/01/2019 at 5:51 AM, PKay said:

Did you try the Gross with the new PSU?

Deleted...

Edited January 17, 2019 by Max Headroom

[PKay]

43 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Can I suggest you get a decent Pre-amp in the system and try again. PS Audio DSJ is no where near anywhere as good, which leads me to nake that suggestion if you couldt hear the difference. You really shouldnt run without a good active pre-amp if you want to hear the potential of your system, it kills it.

????  Not sure you read my post properly.  I was raising a question.

 

My setup is into a Lavardin IT integrated amp.

 

[Max Headroom]

6 minutes ago, PKay said:

????  Not sure you read my post properly.  I was raising a question.

 

My setup is into a Lavardin IT integrated amp.

 

Ooppps I responded to the wrong post! Sorry

[Max Headroom]

On 01/01/2019 at 11:35 PM, scumbag said:

Using the GroB direct into a Pass Labs XA30.8 versus a Direct Stream Junior - both without a preamp - I and Bill Cochrane @Bill125812 found them quite similar. I think Bill leaned more towards the Grob - then again he did own it so he must have liked the sound signature  Perhaps more bass with the Grob and maybe a bit more dynamic. I didn't try the test with a preamp though the DSJ really does need one to get the full potential. But we are talking about DAC's with 2 quite different price points.

Just to complicate things, there is a new version of the firmware now (since the comparison) for the DSJ that has quite radically changed it's character. It would be interesting to do another comparo with the new firmware in use. The new Snowmass firmware for the DSJ adds bass quantity and texture and has more attack. So it might be closer in round 2. Or the DSJ might tip things too much into the dynamic side of things. It's all subjective and at this point we are largely dealing in different not " better". Still a big difference in RRP!

Can I suggest you get a decent Pre-amp in the system and try again. PS Audio DSJ is no where near anywhere as good, and the difference in the sound quality is significant, which leads me to make my suggestion if you couldn't hear the difference. Recommend a good active pre-amp if you want to hear the potential of your system, it kills the sound without it. And you've got a great power amp. Many people have tried running without a Pre and you'll find stories all over the internet of people realising that they've made a mistake and it sounds better with a good pre.

[MattyW]

Suggest the Linear Tube Audio line of preamps.... The dedicated preamp if budget will stretch that far, or the MZ3 if not that far, or drop back to the MZ2 (as I have) if it won't stretch to the 3..... I do eventually want to save enough for the dedicated preamp though it'll be a while before I have $6k handy for it.

[Guest scumbag]

4 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Can I suggest you get a decent Pre-amp in the system and try again. PS Audio DSJ is no where near anywhere as good, and the difference in the sound quality is significant, which leads me to make my suggestion if you couldn't hear the difference. Recommend a good active pre-amp if you want to hear the potential of your system, it kills the sound without it. And you've got a great power amp. Many people have tried running without a Pre and you'll find stories all over the internet of people realising that they've made a mistake and it sounds better with a good pre.

Ive got a shitty ps audio bhk Signature Preamp with some rare haltron tungsram holland 12au7s in it. Damn, guess I need 

to upgrade. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by scumbag
Typo

[Guest scumbag]

Max, 

I know you keep saying that there is no way that thr dsj is any where near the grob but with a good preamp that had not been my experience. As I've said I can certainly see why someone might like the grob over the dsj. It comes down to a matter of tastes and system synergy. It is also considerably cheaper than the dsj. Now with the new snowmass firmware, the dsj has been further transformed hence the plan to get Bill over again with his psu modified grob to compare the latest state of the art for both dacs. 

[frankn]

I look forward to the next comparison @scumbag