AV Advice Needed

[Digital Man]

Hi cwt, Okay, so upon further reading and looking, this power amp situation won't work especially for multi channel as I need a avr with hdmi for that, analogue connections won't do it plus I can't seem to find any except for Yamaha's and I ain't going to pay no more than a grand, hopefully less for anything be it new or secondhand so thanks but I think I will keep looking for a Cambridge 551 V2 or such like.

[betty boop]

1 minute ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi cwt, Okay, so upon further reading and looking, this power amp situation won't work especially for multi channel as I need a avr with hdmi for that, analogue connections won't do it plus I can't seem to find any except for Yamaha's and I ain't going to pay no more than a grand, hopefully less for anything be it new or secondhand so thanks but I think I will keep looking for a Cambridge 551 V2 or such like.

 

there is a 5ch emotiva going in the classified for under a grand. also should be able to pick up what are very decent power amps in the rotel 1075 for instance 2nd hand and tend to go in the $500 or so.

 

you can go the approach as has been described as well with say hdmi in but from my memory the 752 is limited in that regard.

 

i have no idea how you will identify a 551r vs a v2 version but can tell you there was distinctly released a v2 version to fix the woes of the past.

[Digital Man]

Hi Al, I found out that the way to tell the Cambridge 551R from the Cambridge 551R V2 is on the back panel, it will state "551R V2" there and only there on the front panel right hand side it will only state "551R" whether it's a "551R" or a "551R V2" same goes for on the back extreme right hand side towards the bottom, that's the only way to discover which is which on the physical unit itself, in regards to multi channel power amp, am I wrong to assume that you need hdmi from Cambridge 752bd to power amp to achieve proper sacd channel as well as any other hi rez multi channel music ? Thanks.

[Digital Man]

Hi All, I have found a AMC multi channel power amp as well, any thoughts or experience with same ?

[Digital Man]

AMC 25000 Mk II 100 Watts RMS $1,199

[Digital Man]

Hi Al, I tried to find the emotiva but couldn't, I tried the search feature, didn't bring it up for me, I am beginning to understand things a bit clearer, so, a avr is really just a glorified switch box ?! and the more I read about using a multi channel power amp with the cambridge 752bd the more it makes sense, especially since the cambridge 752bd and the avr both have processing features which to my mind seems to mean that one is doubling up on the processing which is probably not a good thing and using the multi channel power amp is, which means I am still considering that path in light of this and my earlier comment about a multi channel power amp not having ability to decode hdmi is actually a mote point, having said that, can one use any multi channel power amp of any age ? Thanks.

[cwt]

10 hours ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi cwt, Okay, so upon further reading and looking, this power amp situation won't work especially for multi channel as I need a avr with hdmi for that, analogue connections won't do it plus I can't seem to find any except for Yamaha's and I ain't going to pay no more than a grand, hopefully less for anything be it new or secondhand so thanks but I think I will keep looking for a Cambridge 551 V2 or such like.

Hi LT ; yes it is not the usual way to do things but for your purposes it will work . Basically your bd player takes over the role of a multichannel pre amp decoding all your discs [ it has decoders for dolby truehd and dts ma lossless and can handle sacd and dvd audio too  check the manual ] . It then applies bass management  then feeds the wolfsohn dacs [ just like an avr would ] and outputs multichannel analog direct to your power amp . Have a look at your CA remote .You will see 2 volume buttons probably  up the top ; these are used for volume control just like an avr 

 

Have a look at that emo power amp Al mentions; Rotel are also good value for money . Its quite popular running oppos directly through a power amp over at avs forum - and a short signal path is a good thing with the 752 upgraded analog stage . That's why oppo has an equivalent oppo with ess sabre dacs that is dearer than the standard oppo..

Edited August 30, 2017 by cwt

[Digital Man]

Hi cwt, Yes, I never knew that the Cambridge had this ability as a pre, pretty amazing and it's a wonder that this feature is never explored nor mentioned in any of the reviews that I have read nor does Cambridge seem to mention it so, I gather that Cambridge has never made a multi channel power amp ?  maybe they should, I will have to wait to sell some gear to finance the power amp purchase, once done I will pounce although the Rotels that I keep finding are class D apparently the class D amps can be bright, which is something I don't like, but the Emotiva amps seem to fit the bill of more recent ones, will any 5 channel power amp suit no matter the age of the amp ? like 10-15 years old ? Thanks.

[cwt]

5 hours ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi cwt, Yes, I never knew that the Cambridge had this ability as a pre, pretty amazing and it's a wonder that this feature is never explored nor mentioned in any of the reviews that I have read nor does Cambridge seem to mention it so, I gather that Cambridge has never made a multi channel power amp ?  maybe they should, I will have to wait to sell some gear to finance the power amp purchase, once done I will pounce although the Rotels that I keep finding are class D apparently the class D amps can be bright, which is something I don't like, but the Emotiva amps seem to fit the bill of more recent ones, will any 5 channel power amp suit no matter the age of the amp ? like 10-15 years old ? Thanks.

Original reason for dvd/bd players multichannel outs was sony didn't like a pure digital sacd dsd signal output from a player for piracy reasons so prevented hdmi outputting a digital lossless signal until they relented about hdmi version 1.1/2 thereabouts.

 

So multi analog out was the only solution allowed  This and early avrs not having the up to date hdmi version is a reason they are still there..among others.. Early class d amps could be bright but the new ones are based on a proven bang and olufsen oem chassis ; I still own a 2ch class d rotel that has done great service as a back surround amp . Class d continues to be developed and upmarket brands now exist using the hypex modules for different channel outputs  http://www.volutone.com/N-CORE-CLASS-D-AMPLIFIER-200W-X-4-3RU-P20808.aspx . 

 

That one is US only btw a local one from the highly awarded wyred4sound stable if you want a new one http://deephzaudio.com/Wyred 4 sound MC7150 product page.html  The emotiva isn't that old ; really old power amp can have things like bulging capacitors that are ready to go so buy within reason .  

[Digital Man]

Hi All, I am definitely going to run with a power amp, not a avr, so really, thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction, okay, is a AMC 25100 Mk II any good ? also, when I play two channel cds, how do I do that ? to avoid sound coming through all five speakers ? will a 2/4 channel amp suit ? I assume that with 5.1 the .1 relates to a subwoofer ? which in this configuration would need to be self powered ?! Thanks

[cwt]

11 minutes ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi All, I am definitely going to run with a power amp, not a avr, so really, thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction, okay, is a AMC 25100 Mk II any good ? also, when I play two channel cds, how do I do that ? to avoid sound coming through all five speakers ? will a 2/4 channel amp suit ? I assume that with 5.1 the .1 relates to a subwoofer ? which in this configuration would need to be self powered ?! Thanks

AMC have been around a long time doing OEM work LT ; no worries . 2ch stays 2ch unless you apply a dsp mode to it  Yes the .1 is just shorthand for the lfe  or subwoofer channel . Just need a powered or active subwoofer [  like most are ] as you say or a set of L/R speakers that have very good low frequency extension The separate sub has a lot going for it ..The alternative is another mono  power amp hooked up to a passive sub ; more complicated ..

[Digital Man]

Hi cwt, Okay, so AMC 25100 is good quality ? what about a 2/4 channel power amp ?

[cwt]

5 hours ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi cwt, Okay, so AMC 25100 is good quality ? what about a 2/4 channel power amp ?

Certainly is http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/amc/25100/prd_124535_1583crx.aspx  No such thing as a 2/4 ch power amp . Have a look at your multi analog outputs ; each channel is named . As likely all outputs are active at the same time you can even run another 2ch power amp of the 2ch analog outs next to the multichannel outs though this reviewer thinks it a waste 

 

Quote

That sense of dimensionality positively defines the 752BD's musical performance, as does its all-around smoothness. In my opinion (and we're talking about subjective preference here), that smoothness works best with less rocking music, like Abigail Washburn's City of Refuge (Rounder) or Joanna Newsom's three-disc epic Have One on Me (Drag City). It's the latter that I used to assess the difference - or lack of difference, I should say - between the 752BD's stereo analog outputs and its 7.1-channel outs. If there is any difference, I couldn't hear it.

 

[Digital Man]

Hi cwt, Okay, I was only asking as someone is selling/advertising a nad amp as 2/4 channel hence my question, I'm still unsure about the AMC amp as well, scant info about it with mixed reviews when I do find some info, it is priced, AMC, at $499, I'm sure I could get it for $400, but I don't wish to buy, try and sell, so if any lack of a high recommendation, then I will pass and wait for something else to come along.

[cwt]

20 minutes ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi cwt, Okay, I was only asking as someone is selling/advertising a nad amp as 2/4 channel hence my question, I'm still unsure about the AMC amp as well, scant info about it with mixed reviews when I do find some info, it is priced, AMC, at $499, I'm sure I could get it for $400, but I don't wish to buy, try and sell, so if any lack of a high recommendation, then I will pass and wait for something else to come along.

Your probably describing a bridgeable power amp LT ; plenty of those around ; I thought you was referring to your 2ch question . A bit more than 500 at Rio but a well designed amp that has separate windings coming of its toroidal power supply as a good mono type design would  As mentioned they do work for other Ce's with oem parts for power amps though you will never be told that 

https://www.rio.com.au/product/amc-25100mkii-5-channel-high-current-power-amplifier-5-x-100watts-rms-8ohm

Edited September 2, 2017 by cwt

[Digital Man]

Hi, I have also found a Rotel RB 985 and a Rotel RB 985 Mk II, how would they compare to the AMC 25100 ? and how would they all compare to the Emotiva ?

[Snoopy8]

On 29/08/2017 at 9:08 AM, LinearTracker said:

Hi cwt, 3D is not an issue nor is room eq, I don't have speakers at present but I am considering elac's, hdcd is more important here this point is what I don't know as this is my first ever surround sound system as well as my first foray into hdcd, dvd-a and sacd. Thanks

Sorry, this may sound basic, but have you been into an audio retailer and audition some of the systems? And what is your budget?

[Digital Man]

Hi, Yes, I went into Carlton Audio on Friday, they didn't have anything set up nor anything that I was interested in power amp wise, he did recommend secondhand Elektra and bryston, my budget is $1,000 but I will stretch it up to $1,500 if need be. Thanks

[betty boop]

at price points looking at yes 2nd hand. old rotel 1075 or something at $350-$500 should be a good pick up. they were class AB if worried about Class D.

 

however as i have mentioned the hdmi inputs on the 752 are very limited. wish you well using in that fashion.

[Primare Knob]

Hi Mate,

 

Reading through your questions and the replies it seems you are still a bit in the dark and far off from your original plan at the beginning of this thread.

 

If your first priority is music, you should focus on a 2 channel setup first and buy a cheap as possible AVR to give multi channel a try, since there is a fair change you might not even use it that much and end up sticking to only one format/purpose.  Home cinema will have to do a whole lot more for the money than a similar priced stereo setup, and therefor will not perform on the same level as a stereo setup. I have a $4000 Pre Pro and a $4000 Pre amp, and the they are worlds apart in analogue sound quality.

 

Be careful to rely on a volume control function of source players or DAC's. They usually rely on digital volume control of the signal, which is different to an analogue volume control, and can really degrade the signal. It can also be an easy mismatch with your power amp and degrade sound quality. Yes, technically it is possible and should work, the reality is very different.

 

Home Cinema comes with a lot of bell's and whistles, but how many are you actually using in the end? Don't put to much faith in Room EQ. You might gain something here, but you will lose something there. There is always a trade off. A poor speaker setup will always be a poor setup. 

 

If a mixed system of 2 channel and multi channel is to much of a hassle than stick with the simplest solution. Everyday use is as much important, as sound quality. When you are making your first steps into multi channel setup why not start with the AVR and add things along the way when you build up your user experience?

 

There is no such thing as a future proof home cinema setup. Things will come and go and change rapidly within a short time.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Primare Knob

[Snoopy8]

1 hour ago, LinearTracker said:

Hi, Yes, I went into Carlton Audio on Friday, they didn't have anything set up nor anything that I was interested in power amp wise, he did recommend secondhand Elektra and bryston, my budget is $1,000 but I will stretch it up to $1,500 if need be. Thanks

Are you set on a power amp?  Or will you consider an excellent Anthem MRX-710 AVR? Has heaps of power and superb for multi channel music and very good for 2 channel. Anthem Room Correction is what makes the difference. Have a look at this owners thread.

[powerav]

Op sounds more confused than me.

[betty boop]

2 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

Hi Mate,

 

Reading through your questions and the replies it seems you are still a bit in the dark and far off from your original plan at the beginning of this thread.

 

yeah i dont know where headed, not a path id frankly suggest. i think he is selling off his 2ch integrated too i notice so not sure where headed. OP might want to clarify.

[Primare Knob]

The are two types of data transfer via HDMI between the Source (player) and the Receiver (AVR / Pre-Pro). The are usually called Bitstream and LPCM (Linear PCM).

The type of data transfer (we are talking about the digital domain) depends on the settings or capabilities of the source unit. (and sometimes the Reciever) You player can do both. All AVR’s and or Pre-Pro can receive and understand LPCM. Not all Bitsreams can be understood by AVR’s and or Pre-Pro.

 

A Bitstreams is like the different audio formats as MP3, FLAC, WAV, etc. The all represent audio but are written in a different digital language. When the source sends out in Bitstream the Receiver needs to be able to understand that digital language. If it doesn’t , then no audio will be played. AVR’s and or Pre-Pro’s can understand a multitude of digital languages but mostly related to Movies.

 

That is where LPCM comes into play. This is the standard language in multi-channel hifi that all equipment understands. And we are still talking about the digital domain, which gives us plenty of options to deal with individual speaker levels and distances as well as (Subwoofer) cross over settings and even room EQ.

 

HDCD is something that needs to be put out into the LPCM format towards your choice of AVR or Pre-Pro. Your Cambridge 752BD will be able to do so.

 

Don’t mistake the HDMI HDSP specification for your HDCD. They are two different things.

[Primare Knob]

If you don’t use 3D than please forget all about it. There is no such things as future proofing in Home Theatre. There are mostly only gimmicks, and each gimmick only attracts a very small user group to begin with. The majority of people still watch DVD on their HD TV. Realistically a Home Cinema in general 5.1/7.1 is already a small group, and even that group is dived into sub categories based on what gimmicks they prefer to use. Hence the huge depreciation in value for Home Theatre equipment.

 

1500W is only the peak output performance and doesn’t really say much. Obviously, more channels need more amplifiers which will consume more electricity.