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SteveC

Digital Multi channel processor solution

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Looking for any ideas that may help.

 

I currently run 2 x Devialet Phantom silvers in my living room which is TV and music. For 2 channel music it's easy as I just run a Rpi/ Roon solution or I can use the inbuilt streaming Spark app or even Spotify so plenty of options.

 

For TV/Movies I run an Oppo 105D as a pseudo AVR. I run a TBox and ATV into the Oppo and digital out to the Phantoms.

 

So I am looking at taking it up a level to see if I can go multi channel but the Phantoms take only an SPDIF optical(TOSLINK) input. 

 

Is there a device that will take a HDMI signal and process out to multichannel digital? Also I want to send the LFE channel on movies to each phantom so it would need to have DSP in it.

 

Alternatively I could take the analog channels out of the Oppo (or a receiver later) and do an ADC conversion but it does not assist me with the LFE channel.

 

Disclaimer here: Devialet do have a very convoluted solution using 2 ADC and then DAC conversions in the chain using a Xilica Processor. I am not 100% convinced that this is the only/best way.

 

I have studied the mini DSP site and they seem to all end up with analog out at the end of the chain. Not sure how to deal with this. The Phantoms can take a full 24/192 signal so looking for good quality output as well.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, SteveC said:

Looking for any ideas that may help.

 

I currently run 2 x Devialet Phantom silvers in my living room which is TV and music. For 2 channel music it's easy as I just run a Rpi/ Roon solution or I can use the inbuilt streaming Spark app or even Spotify so plenty of options.

 

For TV/Movies I run an Oppo 105D as a pseudo AVR. I run a TBox and ATV into the Oppo and digital out to the Phantoms.

 

So I am looking at taking it up a level to see if I can go multi channel but the Phantoms take only an SPDIF optical(TOSLINK) input. 

 

Is there a device that will take a HDMI signal and process out to multichannel digital? Also I want to send the LFE channel on movies to each phantom so it would need to have DSP in it.

After considering the draconian hdcp protocol we have to live with [ and having a look at hd furys options which strip it for your display] and coming up blank for sound Steve ; I would consider a jvb mod for your oppo - or pick up a 93 2nd hand and get that modded so you don't go without while its away  . This is as clean as you can get and of course being sp/dif is good for 2ch 192khz material , the oppo would retain its 96khz and cd rate 44.1 downrez menu options Ide imagine :)

 

As for routing the LFE ide ask them but is a separate sub out of the question ? Finally a simple coax to toslink converter box each for your Phantoms discreetly hidden and your ok..

http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?level=sdi&page=title&title=829

Edited by cwt

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meridian used to have some some digital processors to feed their digital speakers. maybe something to explore. am not a meridian nut so not something am fully up on

 

any digital outs these days tend to be either low res (coax/optical) or via hdmi with its HDCP(copy control) so am not sure if something will exist to  down convert multi channel hi-res to output over  multichannel low res capability connection (i.e. without the copy control).

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On 26/08/2017 at 10:40 PM, cwt said:

After considering the draconian hdcp protocol we have to live with [ and having a look at hd furys options which strip it for your display] and coming up blank for sound Steve ; I would consider a jvb mod for your oppo - or pick up a 93 2nd hand and get that modded so you don't go without while its away  . This is as clean as you can get and of course being sp/dif is good for 2ch 192khz material , the oppo would retain its 96khz and cd rate 44.1 downrez menu options Ide imagine :)

 

As for routing the LFE ide ask them but is a separate sub out of the question ? Finally a simple coax to toslink converter box each for your Phantoms discreetly hidden and your ok..

http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?level=sdi&page=title&title=829

 

Just curious, how do you split the coax outputs to left and right channel? I need one digital output per speaker.

 

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4 hours ago, SteveC said:

 

Just curious, how do you split the coax outputs to left and right channel? I need one digital output per speaker.

 

 

Do you have any digital input (coaxial or optical) into your speakers now?

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10 minutes ago, Satanica said:

 

Do you have any digital input (coaxial or optical) into your speakers now?

 

Yep, each speaker has an optical input.

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On 27/08/2017 at 9:28 AM, :) al said:

meridian used to have some some digital processors to feed their digital speakers. maybe something to explore. am not a meridian nut so not something am fully up on

 

any digital outs these days tend to be either low res (coax/optical) or via hdmi with its HDCP(copy control) so am not sure if something will exist to  down convert multi channel hi-res to output over  multichannel low res capability connection (i.e. without the copy control).

 

@Mr_Gimlet any thoughts on this ? with your meridian knowledge are there any meridian processors with individual digital outs ?to feed their digital speakers

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45 minutes ago, :) al said:

 

@Mr_Gimlet any thoughts on this ? with your meridian knowledge are there any meridian processors with individual digital outs ?to feed their digital speakers

 

So Meridian processors do do that in principle but there are two major problems. First, Meridian sends both channels through a single output - so it goes to your master Left and then an output goes to your right from there. So there is one output per pair, plus LFE. Second, Merdian (and everyone else I am familiar with in this space) uses SPDIF coax, not optical. Optical is very uncommon these days, though you can of course get little converters.

 

It took a few years for Meridian to develop an HDMI stripper (the HD621) so there was a side market in modified players. The main board was tapped to bypass the encoding, and then the digital outs when into a Meridian processor.

 

Your basic problem is that hi-res digital outputs are normally prohibited on devices as part of the licensing. Even my converted multichannel from my HD621 (stripped from the HDMI) is encrypted.

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1 hour ago, SteveC said:

 

Yep, each speaker has an optical input.

 

But you're not currently using it/them correct?

Edited by Satanica

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Just now, Satanica said:

 

But you're not using it/them correct?

I am using one of them now direct from the Oppo but they act as a stereo pair processed internally by the Devialet hardware. You can switch that off and have them act as standalone "digital" speakers. So yes assume they are available to be used. 

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48 minutes ago, SteveC said:

I am using one of them now direct from the Oppo but they act as a stereo pair processed internally by the Devialet hardware. You can switch that off and have them act as standalone "digital" speakers. So yes assume they are available to be used. 

 

I "kind of" have a similar setup to you with a DEQX processor being fed with digital.

I also only do stereo 2.0 like you do now.

 

So it seems you want to mix 5.1/6.1/7.1 soundtracks including the LFE (.1) into your stereo 2.0 keeping it all digital for your speakers if you can, correct?

And the Oppo won't do this?

And you don't want to add any more speakers or subwoofer(s) to your system, at least right now?

 

Edited by Satanica

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Oppo will do all this via analog out but not digital from what I can see (maybe I am wrong here but I am guessing it is just outputting a 2 channel PCM via optical as the Phantoms cannot process anything else).

 

I wanted to add a centre to start with and go from there. I think the only way I can add the LFE channel is via DSP of some sort.

 

I could just go analog out of the Oppo channels and then get an ADC to go optical back into the speaker but seems wrong to me and I don't think I will get the LFE?

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7 hours ago, SteveC said:

 

Just curious, how do you split the coax outputs to left and right channel? I need one digital output per speaker.

 

That's the trouble 'the jvb mod is for feeding the dacs of an avr or pre pro . Shame the devialets don't have the bass management to route this separately .

 

 

 

Edited by cwt

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29 minutes ago, SteveC said:

Oppo will do all this via analog out but not digital from what I can see (maybe I am wrong here but I am guessing it is just outputting a 2 channel PCM via optical as the Phantoms cannot process anything else).

 

I wanted to add a centre to start with and go from there. I think the only way I can add the LFE channel is via DSP of some sort.

 

I could just go analog out of the Oppo channels and then get an ADC to go optical back into the speaker but seems wrong to me and I don't think I will get the LFE?

 

Yeah I'm not sure if the Oppo will mix LFE into any of the non-LFE channels for the digital output(s).

 

If you stick to 2.0 and you're prepared to use a computer of some sort can do this with JRiver Media Center.

You can even set a Low Pass Filter (typically 120Hz) for the LFE (.1) channel.

I've got it going like this now, see below for a screen shot of the setup.

 

image.png.fe4464facd8118bf2c6c5413e0a5d07f.png

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Just reviving this as I ran out of stamina researching the first time. Just wondering if anyone knows whether a standard 2ch down mix from Oppo or other players includes LFE information? I have a feeling it is left out so as not to overload speakers.

 

Does  anyone know of any test tracks I can download and use through the Oppo to test individual channels including LFE?

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On 10/7/2017 at 5:35 PM, SteveC said:

Does  anyone know of any test tracks I can download and use through the Oppo to test individual channels including LFE?

Yes I've downloaded DD and DTS test tracks to make sure LFE was coming through, GOOGLE is your friend.

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The first thing you should find out is if, and how, your Phantoms are recognized on your local PC/Wifi Network. Your biggest fight to start with is probably the closed loop network that Devialet set's up with no external access from non Devialet equipment.

 

Not sure what the Xilica Processor is or does, but Xilica mention to work with Dante audio networking which could be a possible solution. You will most likely end up with a PC as your source player for multi channel and Dante does have a virtual audio card that can handle an x number of audio channels over a wired network.

Do you use a Dialog with your setup? And what options does it have for routing audio/channels to individual Phantoms? If Devialet doesn't allow for custom routing of audio channels it most likely won't work out.

 

This might be a possible solution, but will be hard to source.

https://www.audinate.com/products/dante-enabled/micromedia/micromedia-digimedia-dio-rca-tos

Edited by Primare Knob

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4 hours ago, Primare Knob said:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/nanodigi-2x8-b

 

This come very close to your requirement apart for the coax connections instead of the toslink (and only good for the old formats.). Don't give up hope yet.

That's only stereo input I believe and no bass management. I have spent too much time on the minidsp site.

 

If I have to put a PC in my lounge to play a Bluray movie or watch netflix then I will give up on this idea. I agree it's the most flexible but I work on a PC all day, I don't want to deal with one at night as well.

 

There is a new mod board for the Oppo203 that I like the look of http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=sdi&page=title&title=974 . It looks very easy to fit and quality looks good. Previous boards existed for the 93 and 103 so seems to be some demand for this.  Only problem would be voiding a 203 warranty at the beginning of it's life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, SteveC said:

Only problem would be voiding a 203 warranty at the beginning of it's life.

Oppo US never used to void warranty after opening and installing a mod... as long as it was removed prior to returning it to them. Not sure if this situation has now changed with the AUS distributor.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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3 hours ago, SteveC said:

There is a new mod board for the Oppo203 that I like the look of http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=sdi&page=title&title=974 . It looks very easy to fit and quality looks good. Previous boards existed for the 93 and 103 so seems to be some demand for this.  Only problem would be voiding a 203 warranty at the beginning of it's life.

Finally JVB have released a 203 version of the  93 mod I posted:) . Is it compatible with the single channel devialet as mentioned before though ? I thought so when you said to Satanica but not certain ; 

Quote

You can switch that off and have them act as standalone "digital" speakers. So yes assume they are available to be used

Wouldn't worry about the warranty if its just a ribbon cable and screw job to replace ; but ring as the US is quite lenient in this regard as J said.. .. 

Quote

The installation of the Vanity203HD module is very easy and fully reversible.
No soldering or back panel drilling is necessary. Module is designed to simply replace the original analog output board of the OPPO UDP-203.


 

Edited by cwt

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On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:39 PM, SteveC said:

There is a new mod board for the Oppo203 that I like the look of http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?cur=2&level=sdi&page=title&title=974 . It looks very easy to fit and quality looks good. Previous boards existed for the 93 and 103 so seems to be some demand for this.  Only problem would be voiding a 203 warranty at the beginning of it's life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How does this help? Is it possible on the Oppo 203 to down-mix to 2.0 with the LFE mixed into the stereo outputs? On the general topic, with the emergence of active digital speakers there seems to be a gap opening up in the market for "digital processors" that take a bunch of inputs and output (volume controlled) digital signal.

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29 minutes ago, zydeco said:

How does this help? Is it possible on the Oppo 203 to down-mix to 2.0 with the LFE mixed into the stereo outputs? On the general topic, with the emergence of active digital speakers there seems to be a gap opening up in the market for "digital processors" that take a bunch of inputs and output (volume controlled) digital signal.

It outputs multi channel in digital pairs ie L/R, C/Sub, SR/SL etc. The phantoms can be set up in separate stereo pairs so you could use this but no bass management. I haven't tested the Oppo yet.

 

There are products by companies like Trinnov that have digital avrs but they are way out of my price range.

 

I spoke to the Devialet rep at the hifi show and he was using a whole new set up with Dante based processor and a dongle that took ethernet(Dante) signal and converted to optical to input to the Phantom. It's all new and details are sparse so am waiting for them to get back to me as well as pricing. As an aside the room they had in Melbourne was way too small for that demo and volumes were a bit much but I guess they had to work with it.

 

 

 

 

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I guess an all digital solution might be to take the digital output of the oppo (from that card) into the new miniDSP DDRC-88d which can then do the bass management. It’s not a clean solution in that you’d need to convert the Oppo output from SPDIF to AES an output from AES to Toslink.

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