Focal Utopia vs Sennheiser HD800S

[Tassie Devil]

 

In general terms, as an owner of both, I would recommend the Sennheiser is a better fit for most people.  Yes, the Focals are slightly better and more revealing BUT this will only be apparent in an optimised system.  Here are my reasons –

 

1.    The Focals are NOT twice as good as the price difference might suggest.

2.    The Sennies weigh less and are more comfortable.

3.    The Sennies have a 2 year guarantee while the Focals have only one.  This is more important than you might first think as I’ve never had to have Sennies repaired but currently have my Focals in for repair at a (most likely high) cost, yet to be determined.

4.    The Sennies do have a superior soundstage and are delight to listen to (mostly classical in my case) music.

 

My advice would be that the extra dollars required for the Focals over the Sennies would yield better results if spent elsewhere, in particular on the DAC.

 

Getting to where I am now has been a long, long and often wasteful road.  I cut my teeth on the first audio delight with headphones listening to AM radio on a constructed crystal set back in the 1950’s.  Yes, this audio idiot is pretty old at 82 next month!!!  And I’ve trodden the vinyl path with fancy Linn Sondel tables, Koetsu cartridges etc etc and initially hated CDs.  And that dislike was well founded as the conversion from digital to analog was pretty bad in those days with jitter fouling up the audio.

 

But technology has moved on so I sold my vinyl collection, then a few years later sold the CD collection and moved on to the expensive Meridian Sooloos server system.  Even that is now abandoned in favour of Roon so the headphone setup now is:

 

Music files (around 16,000) on a 6TB HDD in this drive, processed by Roon, hardwired by a LAN connection to an Aurilac Aries streaming bridge –> AES balanced digital out via Canare DA206 115 ohm cabling -> Schiit Yggdrasil DAC -> bal;anced analog audio -> Auralic Tausus MkII amp -> balanced headphone.

 

A footnote to the above is that it is only recently I woke up to the importance of the quality of the digital cable.  If  that cable is not chosen with care it can be responsible for nasty jitter which can make a mockery of the best DAC etc.

 

So I’ve actually come full circle, starting off his cheap headphones on a crystal set, ending up with a nice music system still listening on headphones!!!  And I’m not expecting sympathy about having to use the Sennies while the Focals are being repaired because none would be appropriate.  The AQ is currently VERY nice thank you!

[Kaynin]

Interesting observations @Tassie Devil , thanks for your thoughts.

 

The Sennies are definitely light and comfortable, which is an important factor for me.  Your amp is nice too, although I found the Auralic paired exceptionally well with the Audeze LCD-3's.  I tried the Sennie 800 (not S model), Hifiman Ed-X and Audeze LCD-3 with the Auralic and preferred the Audeze, but they're just too heavy and uncomfortable for listening sessions more than 1 hour.

 

Do you think your ideas about the Focals would change with a different amp?  I'm very happy with my set-up at the moment, but have to admit that I was eyeing off the Utopias some time next year, and comparing with others in that price point, including the Audeze LCD-4's.  With the price of the Sennie 800S coming down to around $2K, it may be worth visiting them.

[Tassie Devil]

Maybe I gave the impression I did not like the Focal Utopias - not so. I'm quite happy with the amp and also had them fed by the balanced HeadRoom Blockhead amp earlier (had it up for sale but no one wanted it so now in the office here). Most likely I listened to the Focals in a damaged condition for awhile  - possibly a result of a visitor as month ago, a bit deaf but will not admit it, who had them set at far too high volume.  But last week they really broke down.

 

Not sure if it all suggests the Focal Utopias are a bit more fragile than ther Sennies or not.  Buit I've never had any trouble with the 5 or 6  Sennies I've owned.

 

Still no news about the repair or the cost but I'll post back about all that and how they sound when they eventually return.

[Kaynin]

I'm surprised to hear that the Focals only carry a 1 year warranty - that's crap.  We always like to think that new quality products won't fail, but I've found they do...as you've found with your Focals.  I find it hard not to show off my head-fi to friends, but as soon as I see their inexperience in handling the equipment I regret it...

[mkaramazov]

22 hours ago, Kaynin said:

I'm surprised to hear that the Focals only carry a 1 year warranty - that's crap.  

 

And I wonder if such an expensive pair of headphones could really have such a short warranty under Australian Consumer Law: https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advice/your-rights/articles/consumer-law-and-extended-warranties

[Kaynin]

1 hour ago, mkaramazov said:

 

And I wonder if such an expensive pair of headphones could really have such a short warranty under Australian Consumer Law: https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advice/your-rights/articles/consumer-law-and-extended-warranties

 

Yeah, spot on, you read my mind - I was going to reference ACL in my post but chose not to, mainly because, in reality, pursuing your rights through VCAT, for example, is cumbersome.  

 

But you're right, 1 year on a $5,500 item wouldn't stand up for a second.  Unfortunately what that often means for the consumer is a hard time from the retailer...  

[Munce31]

I've got the HD800 and the Hifiman HE-1000 V2. I still feel the HD800 competes very well against the HE-1000's - sometimes even bests them.

[Odyssey]

+1 on the HD800. I've that and LCD-2f. I heard Utopia at the last Sydney meet when Wing of Minidisc brought it along. Utopia is good, very good indeed but I thought that HD800 holds up very well after all these years. In the right setup, it sounds incredible.

[rand129678]

On 8/25/2017 at 8:42 AM, Tassie Devil said:

Music files (around 16,000) on a 6TB HDD in this drive, processed by Roon, hardwired by a LAN connection to an Aurilac Aries streaming bridge –> AES balanced digital out via Canare DA206 115 ohm cabling -> Schiit Yggdrasil DAC -> bal;anced analog audio -> Auralic Tausus MkII amp -> balanced headphone.

 

Great system  I'm loving my HD800S's too.

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Sean84

[Tassie Devil]

On 8/26/2017 at 9:27 PM, mkaramazov said:

 

And I wonder if such an expensive pair of headphones could really have such a short warranty under Australian Consumer Law: https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advice/your-rights/articles/consumer-law-and-extended-warranties

Be that as it might be, I doubt if I could get the repair done under guarantee anyway when they were so loudly driven by my hearing impaired visitor they were damaged.  An expensive lesson about NOT to show off your gear to visitors.

[Tobes]

On 25/8/2017 at 11:17 PM, Kaynin said:

I'm surprised to hear that the Focals only carry a 1 year warranty - that's crap.  

FWIW, I bought my Utopias locally from A2A and registered them with Focal.

My returned certificate states a 2 year warranty.

[Tassie Devil]

Yes, but I'm guessing that the gurantee would not cover them being over driven, in other words abused.  The guy had the music playing so loud I could hear it in the other room!!  I should have known better to let him loose with them unsup[ervised as a couple of years ago he blew up the bass units in his Duntec speakers.

[Tobes]

Perhaps - though I believe some (early serial) Utopias with driver failure have been replaced by Focal under warranty.

My point was that you stated a 1yr warranty for the Utopia and this does not appear to be the case.

Hope you're able to get your headphones fixed without too much drama.

[paul30d]

On ‎15‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:12 PM, Tobes said:

FWIW, I bought my Utopias locally from A2A and registered them with Focal.

My returned certificate states a 2 year warranty.

I just bought a pair of Utopias from ATA. Availed of the October $1300 trade-in discount. I've only listened to them for a couple of days now, but I am very pleased with them (and the reduced price).

 

Perhaps a bit off topic, but did you have difficulties finding the serial number for the product registration? I gather it is under the right side ear pad. I tried to remove the ear pad and pulled as much as I felt comfortable with. But it did not budge. Last think I want to do is wreck the ear pad on my new Utopias.

 

Cheers

Paul

[Tobes]

Yeah, I was exactly the same - I didn't  want to tear the leather or break the ear pad.

I just used the serial off the cardboard box!

[paul30d]

Yeah, I was exactly the same - I didn't  want to tear the leather or break the ear pad.
I just used the serial off the cardboard box!

Did not think of that one. Thanks!

[JimmyiovinE]

On 20/10/2017 at 2:33 PM, paul30d said:

I just bought a pair of Utopias from ATA. Availed of the October $1300 trade-in discount. I've only listened to them for a couple of days now, but I am very pleased with them (and the reduced price).

 

Perhaps a bit off topic, but did you have difficulties finding the serial number for the product registration? I gather it is under the right side ear pad. I tried to remove the ear pad and pulled as much as I felt comfortable with. But it did not budge. Last think I want to do is wreck the ear pad on my new Utopias.

 

Cheers

Paul

I’m trying to understand how that promo works. I see on the website the price has dropped to 4100 or so, so I can just order them online and pay that price as it doesn’t alter the price when I go to check out.

 

and what headphones can you use as trade? And are they on top of the price drop? I have some bose qc15’s I can send them lol, but damned of I’m sending them my sennys or mr speakers lol. 

[paul30d]

I’m trying to understand how that promo works. I see on the website the price has dropped to 4100 or so, so I can just order them online and pay that price as it doesn’t alter the price when I go to check out.
 
and what headphones can you use as trade? And are they on top of the price drop? I have some bose qc15’s I can send them lol, but damned of I’m sending them my sennys or mr speakers lol. 

I ordered online at the reduced price. A day or two later I got an email saying that for the order to be completed I needed to send them a working set of headphones. They wanted a working set as the trade-ins would be donated to a charity.

I did not have a set of headphones that I wanted to give them, do I went out and bought a cheap pair of Sonys (about 60 bucks). I figured since they were going to charity I would send them something new and perhaps useful.

I posted the headphones to them, since I was in Brisbane. They received the package, verified that they were in working condition and promptly shipped my new utopias.

If you are thinking seriously about doing it, the promo ends 31 October so not much time left.

Cheers
Paul

[JimmyiovinE]

3 minutes ago, paul30d said:

I ordered online at the reduced price. A day or two later I got an email saying that for the order to be completed I needed to send them a working set of headphones. They wanted a working set as the trade-ins would be donated to a charity.

I did not have a set of headphones that I wanted to give them, do I went out and bought a cheap pair of Sonys (about 60 bucks). I figured since they were going to charity I would send them something new and perhaps useful.

I posted the headphones to them, since I was in Brisbane. They received the package, verified that they were in working condition and promptly shipped my new utopias.

If you are thinking seriously about doing it, the promo ends 31 October so not much time left.

Cheers
Paul

Ok great thanks, so what price did they give you the headphones for? 4100? The advertised price or a bit more as I see they offer two different discount options but dont say which one you’ll get

[JimmyiovinE]

4 minutes ago, paul30d said:

I ordered online at the reduced price. A day or two later I got an email saying that for the order to be completed I needed to send them a working set of headphones. They wanted a working set as the trade-ins would be donated to a charity.

I did not have a set of headphones that I wanted to give them, do I went out and bought a cheap pair of Sonys (about 60 bucks). I figured since they were going to charity I would send them something new and perhaps useful.

I posted the headphones to them, since I was in Brisbane. They received the package, verified that they were in working condition and promptly shipped my new utopias.

If you are thinking seriously about doing it, the promo ends 31 October so not much time left.

Cheers
Paul

Oh I should ask how are you enjoying them?

[paul30d]

I love them. It’s really the type of sound that I like. I have a pair of HE1000’s but found them a bit laid back. I think I will be selling the HE 1000’s.

As far as I know, there is only one price for the utopias - 4199 if you trade in a working pair of headphones (irrespective of value or age - as long as they work). 4199 is what I paid. I gather there is a similar promo for focal elears but the discount is less.

Cheers
Paul

[JimmyiovinE]

2 hours ago, paul30d said:

I love them. It’s really the type of sound that I like. I have a pair of HE1000’s but found them a bit laid back. I think I will be selling the HE 1000’s.

As far as I know, there is only one price for the utopias - 4199 if you trade in a working pair of headphones (irrespective of value or age - as long as they work). 4199 is what I paid. I gather there is a similar promo for focal elears but the discount is less.

Cheers
Paul

Yeh the discount is 400 on the elears I think.

 

I’m heavily considering making the jump to the utopias, but now there’s the Clear that will be launching the end of this month or early next month. Apparently their tuned inline with the utopias just not using the same driver, have a little more punch and softer in high end which from what I hear essentially fixes everything most didn’t like with the utopias as apparently they could be a bit hsarp in the top end according to quite a few users in various forums. It will be interesting to see the final measurements and reviews though. I may get them instead. 

[paul30d]

Yeh the discount is 400 on the elears I think.
 
I’m heavily considering making the jump to the utopias, but now there’s the Clear that will be launching the end of this month or early next month. Apparently their tuned inline with the utopias just not using the same driver, have a little more punch and softer in high end which from what I hear essentially fixes everything most didn’t like with the utopias as apparently they could be a bit hsarp in the top end according to quite a few users in various forums. It will be interesting to see the final measurements and reviews though. I may get them instead. 

The Utopias don’t seem too bright to me. They are definitely clear and revealing, but in the short time I have had them, have not seemed uncomfortably bright. I think it has some similarities with the HD800S in that both headphones focus more on the top end.

The utopias never add bass. If there is not much in the recording, then it won’t add any. Those types of recordings can sound a bit disappointing on the utopias. As I understand it, the new Focal Clear is meant to bump up the bass a bit (but not as much as the Elear). If the Clear tames the highs as well, I don’t think I would like it. Pretty happy with how the Utopia treats the highs. Just personal preference.

Cheers
Paul

[JimmyiovinE]

.

Edited November 6, 2017 by JimmyiovinE

[Tassie Devil]

Wise decision.  The Sennies are far more comfortable and, in a top system, can yield superb AQ.

 

I've still no news on the Focal repair and have no clue as to the cost but will post that up when I know.

 

IMHO it is more important to spend the extra dollars on the DAC.  I'm even toying with the idea of selling the YGGDRASIL and replacing it with another LKS.  Anyone interested in buying it?

 

The madness continues .........