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Blackman1503561291

Dolby Vision Vrs HDR 10

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OELD vs QLED

 

 

 

unknown calibration settings, a more comprehensive review below,

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in 4K

 

 

 

summary at the end sums it up, the gap has narrowed considerably

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3 hours ago, mello yello said:

OELD vs QLED

https://youtu.be/WlY8ZpGIyKs

...

unknown calibration settings, a more comprehensive review below,

I was struck by the grossly different picture from 29 sec to 32 sec in the above video, where the TV on the right shows a river of white extending across the middle of the screen and up to the right whereas the screen on the left renders this as a light blue that contrasts only slightly with the rest of the scene.  Is this an artefact of one TV operating in HDR and the other not operating in HDR?   Did the screens really differ so much to the human eye in relation to that part of the scene? What's going on here?  Is it simply that the screen on the right was so bright that it overloaded  the camera such that a bright light blue became white?

(As we've mentioned before on this forum, capturing display panel colour with a video camera is problematic given that the spectral response of camera colour sensors for what are loosely described as "Red", "Green" and "Blue" will vary considerably from the spectral distribution of the light coming from the colour subpixels of display panels for "Red", "Green" and "Blue", or other supplementary colours used by some screens.  Because of this, two display panels that looked almost identical for colour in real life to the human eye could look quite different from each for colour as captured by a video camera.)

Edited by MLXXX

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Well the reason of this thread was the Difference between HDR 10 and Dolby Vision and the the only way to prove this is to have a Panasonic DMP UB 900 and Oppo UDP 203 using a Dolby Vision Movie and in my case it was Despicable Me. There is a Difference and I will expect to Change from TV's to Other Tv's than can Do DV. Like I said the LG IPS TV is well known not to have good blacks but certainly it has strong white and the difference was on the Oppo the same scene was Bright on the Oppo whist keeping the Blacks on the same scene reasonable the same as the Panna. Does this Mean DV is giving me more Cotrast ratio on this particular scene?

More and more PPL that buy DV tv's and have both a Panasonic for HDR 10 and the Oppo 203 for DV will prove this and both are Different. Remember the LG on DV is Bright at a particular scene with the tv's Back light set at 60% yet on HDR 10 on the Panasonic I had up to 80% yet that scene was slightly darker

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9 minutes ago, Blackman1503561291 said:

Well the reason of this thread was the Difference between HDR 10 and Dolby Vision and the the only way to prove this is to have a Panasonic DMP UB 900 and Oppo UDP 203 using a Dolby Vision Movie and in my case it was Despicable Me. There is a Difference and I will expect to Change from TV's to Other Tv's than can Do DV. Like I said the LG IPS TV is well known not to have good blacks but certainly it has strong white and the difference was on the Oppo the same scene was Bright on the Oppo whist keeping the Blacks on the same scene reasonable the same as the Panna. Does this Mean DV is giving me more Cotrast ratio on this particular scene?

More and more PPL that buy DV tv's and have both a Panasonic for HDR 10 and the Oppo 203 for DV will prove this and both are Different. Remember the LG on DV is Bright at a particular scene with the tv's Back light set at 60% yet on HDR 10 on the Panasonic I had up to 80% yet that scene was slightly darker

Yep i can relate to this. On dolby vision oled light is set to 50% yet some whites look brighter than normal hdr mode when oled light is set to 100.

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12 minutes ago, gbickle1503560852 said:

Yep i can relate to this. On dolby vision oled light is set to 50% yet some whites look brighter than normal hdr mode when oled light is set to 100.

No doubt you have the Oppo 203 but what is you other player to test the Difference?  I only found out the other day that OLED TV has a OLED LIGHT. So What does that do? Is it like a LCD's Backlight?.

If you look at all your DV Picture Modes on your OLED LG you possible will find the Lot of them at 50%. All five Picture Modes on our LG are at 50%. I adjusted the Backlight up to 60 % but Might bring it down again as after 1 1/2 hours of Despicable Me the Movie started to Slightly Hurt my eyes a little.

 

Hummmmm this is a Big difference between HDR 10 with the Back Light at 50% compared to Back light at 100% yet on DV its Brighter on 50%. Forget going to 100% on DV on our TV not unless you want to cook you eyes and if you do this the Picture becomes unnatural.

Edited by Blackman

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8 hours ago, pc9 said:

From a layman's point of view, was watching a 4K HDR program on Netflix last night on my Samsung KU 8000 and was astounded at the variability of the PQ.  The viewing mode automatically detects the incoming HDR signal; bright outdoor scenes were absolutely stunning yet the introduction of darkness such as in indoor setting rendered the HDR absolutely useless.  PQ under this scenario was akin to a compressed standard definition FTA broadcast television signal.   

I find that Netflix HDR on my Sony set requires very dark viewing conditions. Outdoor scenes can be very bright. Darker scenes get so dark that I can only watch them successfully at night, and with the room lighting very dim.

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2 hours ago, Blackman1503561291 said:

Well the reason of this thread was the Difference between HDR 10 and Dolby Vision

i know, not to get into an OLED v QLED but rather a comparison between a DV and a HDR10 tele, i thought in general reviews those differences might be apparent, but as MLXXX points out, cameras wont capture any specific difference other than a relative one,

assuming of course some of that content is HDR, nothing conclusive of course

Edited by mello yello

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still not sure if pc9 has a KS8000 which would bring it into the Quantum Dot category

?

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2 hours ago, Blackman1503561291 said:

No doubt you have the Oppo 203 but what is you other player to test the Difference?  I only found out the other day that OLED TV has a OLED LIGHT. So What does that do? Is it like a LCD's Backlight?.

 

To do a proper side by side test you'd be best getting a HDMI splitter feeding out from the Oppo to two identical and calibrated TVs, one with DV and one with HDR10(assuming you can turn DV on or off on a set).

No way to predict the processing differences between the Oppo vs Panny. It's going to be hard getting an apples for apples comparison with any home setup.

Edited by Shankman

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On 03/07/2017 at 4:15 PM, Blackman1503561291 said:

Well I how have 3 Dolby Vision movies, Despicable Me, Despicable Me 2. and Power Rangers (crap movie I only purchased it to Test.) so I watch Power Ranger last night to see whats DV is like (comes up with Dolby Vision Cinema).and I found the Colours more Natural and colorful, I found Bright Scenes to be Bright,("eg" that damn Flashlight that the young guy had nearly Blinded me..... Surprising to be so Bright Consider the Back light is set to 50%.not as 100 this is set for HDR 10 Cinema. I also Found that The dynamic Contrast has to be left OFF as if you use it to as low, Medium and high it brighten up the BLACKS and you don't want that.

On HDR 10 Movies I use Dynamic Contrast on High and High give the LG TV the Best Blacks. Funny thing is DV is the Opposite. Interesting!

very interesting Blackie

are you saying your LG supports DV and HDR10? or are you meaning HDR10 movies played back on a DV TV?

 

do any of them support both?

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4 hours ago, MLXXX said:

I was struck by the grossly different picture from 29 sec to 32 sec in the above video, where the TV on the right shows a river of white extending across the middle of the screen and up to the right whereas the screen on the left renders this as a light blue that contrasts only slightly with the rest of the scene.  Is this an artefact of one TV operating in HDR and the other not operating in HDR?   Did the screens really differ so much to the human eye in relation to that part of the scene? What's going on here?  Is it simply that the screen on the right was so bright that it overloaded  the camera such that a bright light blue became white?
 

i have no idea, dont know if thats just a proxy supporting Samsung, but probably shouldnt have even posted it in hindsight

 

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1 minute ago, mello yello said:

i have no idea, dont know if thats just a proxy supporting Samsung, but probably shouldnt have even posted it in hindsight

 

You sort of think there must surely be some value in capturing two screens with the same video camera. But then you begin to doubt yourself: HDR is just so hard to  shoot with its extreme variations in brightness.

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1 minute ago, MLXXX said:

You sort of think there must surely be some value in capturing two screens with the same video camera. But then you begin to doubt yourself: HDR is just so hard to  shoot with its extreme variations in brightness.

definitely

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16 hours ago, mello yello said:

very interesting Blackie

are you saying your LG supports DV and HDR10? or are you meaning HDR10 movies played back on a DV TV?

 

do any of them support both?

I have a LG Tv that is Dolby Vision HDR 10 HLG , I have a Oppo 203 (HDMI 1) that has the Dolby Vision Firmware, I have the Panasonic DMP UB 900 (HDMI 3)that is ONLY HDR 10 and financially I have 3 Dolby Vision Movies being Despicable Me Despicable ME 2 and Power Rangers that when in the Oppo 203 The LG Light up Saying Its Dolby Vision.

So I play Despicable Me on the Oppo 203 and stop it on a Bright Part (record time to the second) that has at the same time dark sections too and stop it and then I play it on the Pana and the black are Close to be the same But on DV on the Oppo it has the Brightest whites.

Just to let you know on the Movies that is Dolby Vision "Despicable Me"

On the Panasonic I use the Picture Mode "Cinema HDR 10",,, DMP UB 900 I use : BACK LIGHT= 80%,  Brightness 50, = Dynamic Contrast = HIGH, Local Dimming = HIGH.

On the Opp0 203 I use Picture Mode for Dolby Vision "Cinema Dolby Vision" I use BACK LIGHT= 60% Brightness = 50% Dynamic Contrast = OFF = Local Dimming = High

 

Yet the Oppo with DV have the Brightness white and the back light is less, so work that out No Dolby Vision has added in it data Stream Some extra brighter whites on the already white Area for HDR 10

 

If I had on of those Nit cameras like they have on the RTINGS.com site I could prove this

Edited by Blackman

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Does anyone have proof or Evidence that Dolby Vision Adjust the Backlight during the Movie compare to HDR 10 where it stays static where you set it.

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And this is the reason why Dolby Vision is better on a LCD with Poor blacks like the IPS LG.

very interesting, Can wait until I get the "Fate and the Furious" on DV next week from Amazon's

Quoted from AVS Forum

@Blackman

That's the whole point of DV, it uses dynamic metadata, which allows it to adjust backlight and overall dynamic range on a per-scene basis.
As others have already said, for the best accuracy, without a meter, leave the backlight at its default value for each HDR format.

Edited by Blackman

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4 hours ago, Blackman1503561291 said:

And this is the reason why Dolby Vision is better on a LCD with Poor blacks like the IPS LG.

very interesting, Can wait until I get the "Fate and the Furious" on DV next week from Amazon's

Been mentioned a few times that there will be more dynamic metadata HDR solutions shortly Blackman  -_- These have the plus of being royalty free for those ce's that don't want to pay dolby royalties 

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1463138030

this is a reference to what Samsung is doing for scene by scene ; 

Quote

 The good news is that HDR10+ doesn't rely on a special decoding chip, it's already supported on all of Samsung's 2017 Ultra HD televisions and is coming to last year's models via a firmware update. It's an open standard, so other television makers are welcome to get onboard.

Place your bets ; https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/20/samsung-and-amazon-counter-dolby-vision-hdr-with-hdr10/

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18 minutes ago, cwt said:

Been mentioned a few times that there will be more dynamic metadata HDR solutions shortly Blackman  -_- These have the plus of being royalty free for those ce's that don't want to pay dolby royalties 

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1463138030

this is a reference to what Samsung is doing for scene by scene ; 

Place your bets ; https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/20/samsung-and-amazon-counter-dolby-vision-hdr-with-hdr10/

Make a very good read.

Interesting times ahead

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Well we got our Copy from Amazon for the Fate and Furious in Dolby Vision and I watch it today in DV and its Terrific Yep the Movie was Good By what I was look at the way DV controls the back light on the LCD TV and by this I would presume it lowers the  backlight and other and lowering the Backlight when needed has to be good for any LCD especially IPS Tv's. Yes the default  Back light is 50% yet the movie have very bright scenes to.

I would be great just to confirm this by having two identical LCD one Oppo 203 running DV and a Pana running the same movie in HDR 10 on the other tv. Yes I would say you would have to find out the Peak Brightness on both TV to see if both are the same

I say for the IPS TV bring out more DV movies.

Talk about these Movies whenever HDR 10 Plus comes out I would say the Movies will have the HDR 10 Plus encoded in them will be a while and god know how long this will take. I could just imaging redoing the most Popular movies in HDR 10 Plus or DV.

Edited by Blackman

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Good article here on what's needed to get Dolby Vision in your home setup.

The good news too is that the D + M 2015 models will be getting DV via FW update and this has been confirmed by JD Smoothie

Quote

JDSmoothie

Strange though that he would list all of the 2015 D+M models separately though so I contacted my D+M rep and it turns out that yes, they have decided to update all of the 2015 D+M models with the DV + HLG update as well. 

 

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On 7/24/2017 at 4:11 PM, Blackman1503561291 said:

Well we got our Copy from Amazon for the Fate and Furious in Dolby Vision and I watch it today in DV and its Terrific Yep the Movie was Good By what I was look at the way DV controls the back light on the LCD TV and by this I would presume it lowers the  backlight and other and lowering the Backlight when needed has to be good for any LCD especially IPS Tv's. Yes the default  Back light is 50% yet the movie have very bright scenes to.

I would be great just to confirm this by having two identical LCD one Oppo 203 running DV and a Pana running the same movie in HDR 10 on the other tv. Yes I would say you would have to find out the Peak Brightness on both TV to see if both are the same

I say for the IPS TV bring out more DV movies.

Talk about these Movies whenever HDR 10 Plus comes out I would say the Movies will have the HDR 10 Plus encoded in them will be a while and god know how long this will take. I could just imaging redoing the most Popular movies in HDR 10 Plus or DV.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/07/17/the-fate-of-the-furious-4k-blu-ray-review-turbo-charged/#211416ce7e0c

Some interesting comments around brightness on OLED which might help with your brightness analysis Blackman :

"Pausing any bright sequence in Dolby Vision and comparing it with the same shot in HDR10 readily exposed the differences as you toggle between the two. The differences didn’t appear quite as pronounced to my eyes as they were with the Despicable Me releases, but they’re still there, and they still mean that the film looks consistently more refined.

For the record, I used an Oppo 203 and LG OLED55C7 TV for the Dolby Vision testing, plus a Panasonic UB900 running into the same OLED TV for comparisons between Dolby Vision and HDR10. I even used two copies of the Fate Of The Furious so that I could more easily flick between the two.

While the Dolby Vision version of The Fate Of The Furious looks better in most ways, though, there is one notable exception. Namely that during dark scenes the Dolby Vision version delivers markedly more grey, washed out looking black levels on the LG OLED TV than the HDR10 version.

Sometimes this sudden injection of greyness with the Dolby Vision version even infiltrates the black bars above and below Fate’s wide aspect ratio picture, suggesting that the Dolby Vision feed is triggering the issue LG OLEDs have with retaining their otherwise inky blacks if their brightness is set too high.

You can, thankfully, neuter the DV greyness issue by reducing the brightness of the LG screen to around its 44 level from its default 50. However, at this brightness level the image sometimes looks a little too dark in shadowy areas."

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kazz said:

Good article here on what's needed to get Dolby Vision in your home setup.

And if your curious about the HDR10+  opposition and what hdmi version you need for this ; its a bit more work to say the least -_-

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-hdmi-2-0b/

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2 hours ago, Shankman said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/07/17/the-fate-of-the-furious-4k-blu-ray-review-turbo-charged/#211416ce7e0c

Some interesting comments around brightness on OLED which might help with your brightness analysis Blackman :

"Pausing any bright sequence in Dolby Vision and comparing it with the same shot in HDR10 readily exposed the differences as you toggle between the two. The differences didn’t appear quite as pronounced to my eyes as they were with the Despicable Me releases, but they’re still there, and they still mean that the film looks consistently more refined.

For the record, I used an Oppo 203 and LG OLED55C7 TV for the Dolby Vision testing, plus a Panasonic UB900 running into the same OLED TV for comparisons between Dolby Vision and HDR10. I even used two copies of the Fate Of The Furious so that I could more easily flick between the two.

While the Dolby Vision version of The Fate Of The Furious looks better in most ways, though, there is one notable exception. Namely that during dark scenes the Dolby Vision version delivers markedly more grey, washed out looking black levels on the LG OLED TV than the HDR10 version.

Sometimes this sudden injection of greyness with the Dolby Vision version even infiltrates the black bars above and below Fate’s wide aspect ratio picture, suggesting that the Dolby Vision feed is triggering the issue LG OLEDs have with retaining their otherwise inky blacks if their brightness is set too high.

You can, thankfully, neuter the DV greyness issue by reducing the brightness of the LG screen to around its 44 level from its default 50. However, at this brightness level the image sometimes looks a little too dark in shadowy areas.

 

 

Well i have the 4 DV movies and I give this an A Plus and I hope HDR 10 Plus is the same.  The LG OLED Tvs do not need to given better blacks because they are the best for that but our IPS LED LCD needs to be helped in any way to give it the best blacks and by this limiting the backlight on the run makes a big difference.

I've tested a dark scene on the Fate and the Furious (Panasonic on HDR 10)paused it and dropped the Backlight from 100% to 30 and it make the B:LACKS a lot blacker , a huge difference and I would say that OLED and our LED LCD IPS tv will have Pluses and minuses with DV

ON Saturday I will re run the F and the F and take not of any very poor blacks or milky letterbox bars

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