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Panasonic 65"/75" EX780

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45 minutes ago, Monkeyboi said:

I must take you shopping for my next TV. :) I assume you will be bringing along your EFI ES 2000 spectrophotometer and other relevant test equipment as well as persuading the salesperson to cooperate with you whilst you conduct the tests on the showroom floor?  For the rest of us plebs, we will just have to go with the blessings bestowed on us by mother nature. 

 

As much as you can measure anything to the enth degree you will still come across personal preference in determining choice.  On a parallel path with audio, many here will disregard measured performance in preference to subjective performance.  I have often argued the point that a tube amplifier with a typical harmonic distortion approaching 1% can't possibly sound superior to a solid state amplifier measuring less than 0.001% over the same bandwidth.  However many a "trained ear" will tell you otherwise, claiming the tube amplifier is "more musical", "more natural and warm sounding" and a plethora of other subjective terms.  All of which don't reflect the measured electrical performance.

 

BTW, what exactly qualifies a person to be a "trained eye" anyway?  If it is anything like a "trained ear", I'll just step into the next room and write myself a certificate.  :)

 

Just for the record, I believe measurements can be and usually are a good indicator of performance.  Just convincing everyone here might be a tad difficult.  I respect your opinion and your method of evaluation.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

TBH and realistic @Monkeyboi  

 

i really dont care.    All panel manufacturers will operate passing QA when they achieve within a tolerance of Delta E 3.     with this in mind it's noticeable to "perfectionist " but discounted by the general public and those who demand "perfection" which means consistent gradation throughout the panel that will be never achieved.   The manufacture will argue that during normal viewing it will never be noticeable because your paying $xxx and not $xxxxxxxx.xx to achieve a better spec.     Hence the reason why I won't pay $1000 for a commercial 55" panel regardless of brand and type, I'd go and buy the cheapest or value for $ and be done with.  

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Another vote for the EX780 here, it's what I chose out of all the mentioned sets in this thread.

Easily the most natural colour reproduction of the lot and really good black levels for an LCD panel.

I actually preferred the colour reproduction to the LG OLEDs (I was initially going to opt for the 55" LG C7) when I viewed them side by side in store with several hours of playing with config settings and sources. 

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Guest Sime

@Addicted to music cheers mate, but the only panel I’m after is the one I have to get direct from Sony, when other spending has ceased :unsure:

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On ‎20‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:29 AM, Pascha said:

Another vote for the EX780 here, it's what I chose out of all the mentioned sets in this thread.

Easily the most natural colour reproduction of the lot and really good black levels for an LCD panel.

I actually preferred the colour reproduction to the LG OLEDs (I was initially going to opt for the 55" LG C7) when I viewed them side by side in store with several hours of playing with config settings and sources. 

LGs IPS panels produce a nice picture with good viewing angles but struggle with native contrast which is a deal breaker for me.

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I intend to buy one of the  Panasonic's on the weekend, a 65EX780, I was considering the 75EX780 [Especially since over the last few days it has been at a special $1000 off -ended today damm it], but after getting the tape measure out realized it would have commandeered my small lounge room, a 65" is pushing the boundary already.[That's the beauty of a PJ, it takes up little space, and a drop down screen is invisible when not in use]

 

I had been gradually getting enough spare cash put away to get a JVC X7900 PJ, but after further thought came to the conclusion that in all honesty, I no longer use my current PJ nearly enough [at least in the Summer months] already to justify replacing it, and I'd be better served getting a larger TV than I currently have.

 

The new Panasonic 65EZ1000U is a very nice OLED, and quite frankly I'm still slightly tempted to get one, but it's around the same price as the JVC PJ, and again being honest, doesn't do what I need of a TV.

 

What has sold me on the new Panasonic LCD displays are several things.

The Black levels achievable on these TV's is very very good already, not quite OLED as setup out of the box, but pretty close.

Have a look at this YouTube video from Panasonic Japan showing how the panels work on the EX780 [in UK- 750 series], then go and have a look at one in a store.......it's true, they do work as well as this.

 

 

.....it's technology like this that is really blurring the lines between 5th/ 6th generation LCD and 2nd 3rd generation OLED, it's very close folks, and IMHO the huge jump in price for OLED over this particular LCD type is hard to justify, it's in the salesman's ball court, and probably why I see these Panasonic LCD TV's playing back content with a really washed out picture so people go for the OLED [bigger sale = bigger commission]....get a hold of the remote if you can, then see what it truly can do.

It's when you get into the menu and have a look at the enormously full featured PRO level calibration controls these TV's have [Same as on Panasonic's new top of the range EZ OLED's]....This is drool inducing to somebody like me who has their own calibration gear, I can tweak this TV within a inch of it's life and get it looking better than any other LCD on the planet.....I think the forums resident ISF Tech- REC 709 would agree with me, as he was asked by Panasonic to come in and calibrate the TV's in their showroom.....Honestly, it's like giving a calibration guy a Ferrari to drive.

 

You can adjust RGB & YCM and luminescence for each ! Amazing !!

 

Ok, I'm calming down.....the other major factor for me at least is, this is the ONLY 3D TV on the market.....3D didn't sell that well because it was done badly at first [Hell, I even told Sony that at one of the first showings of 3D in OZ], which is more the pity, because when done well, like it is with these Panasonic screens, it is well worth having....plus in the ensuring years, I bought a later generation Sony TV that has done 3D with some respectable ability, which has lead me to a collection of close to 150 3D Bluray Discs, so I want to have something to play them back on....seems the yet to be released EX780 successor, at least in Japan -EX850,will not have 3D

http://news.panasonic.com/jp/press/data/2017/08/jn170828-3/jn170828-3.html

 

....sometimes these models are Japan only, so who knows...personally I think Panasonic would be mad to stop making 3D displays, as they have been given the market to themselves......so if you are into 3D, now the time to get one, just in case Panasonic does drop 3D with the EX850 range.

 

Gaming Mode...this is a low 20-22MS....I do a fair bit of gaming, so this is important to me.

 

OK, I'll be honest, I'll be sacrificing somethings by getting this TV.....well as if what I read on the Internet is true !:ohmy:

 

1] No Dolby Vision support, not now or in the foreseeable future , it's a licensing deal thing.....is it going to make that much of a difference in the long run?....I doubt it, as it varies from movie to movie....I mean once you start watching a movie in 4K HD it's going to 'Hopefully " sweep you away for the ride, and your not going to notice that last nuance of difference in picture quality in the first viewing at least...subsequent viewings...who knows, and to be honest, I'll doubt you will care in the long run.....it's purely a minimal difference in local contrast thing anyway, and highly dependent on the films mastering on how it looks.

 

2] Low 4K NIT's reproduction....Yep, this 'Could be a problem', but I sort of agree with Panasonic thinking of that the vast majority of what you view on the TV will not hit the brightness ceiling of the TV's reproduction headroom, even 4K disc's.........see the whole 'How Bright can Your TV go" is similar to how many watt's has your Amp got......both might be a massive figure, but I guarantee that in either case, in normal day to day use, even hard use, your Amp would seldom be asked to put out more than 5/6 watts continuous, likewise 350-300 nits on bright scenes with a TV screen....so why the 1000 nits+ and above specs?...well it's to pull you in thinking you need it....you don't.

It's color reproduction, especially in the low region that you want......very hard to do, and also hard to calibrate at those levels, as most consumer displays oversaturate at the below 20% IR range = Muddy Blacks......hence my love of the calibration potential of these TV's

 

3] Possible Judder problems....well both OLED and LCD/LED are 'Capture and Hold" screen refresh technologies.....this is one of those things that a certain group of people [usually of a similar 'User Group' ] finds something going amiss with their screens....as usually with a group, a lot will swing in and complain when they find something amiss [Usually because they copy each others settings rather than doing any testing themselves], but seldom report back when a solution has been found [Which is usually user selected settings conflicts/problems ] so I'd take any reports about this with these Panasonic EX series with a grain of salt......the other thing is, after reading many a post about this problem at many a different forum, it nearly always comes down to 'Streamed Content' and the various [and seemingly ] Varying standards.....I'm not surprised, it's the internet, it's software, it's never static, it's always evolving....I can't keep up with it, that's why I try to avoid being tied to it as a user when possible......which is basically all the time for me, so don't ask me to trouble shoot for you, you might as well go to the nearest old peoples home and ask a resident there.

 

Anyway, I will test the new TV when out of the box and post the results of it's standard settings, and you will be able to see how they vary from spec.....I'll do the same a 100 HR's later, when the screen and circuitry has had a chance to bed in, then test and re-post results.

 

Depending on interest shown at the forum, depends on what I post back regarding 'Before/after' calibration shots........up to the forum

 

 

 

Edited by Tweaky

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still loving my EX780, the 3d was important to me and that was the first thing that swayed me to the panasonic and the 3d on this tv is much better than the samsung tv's. Although I only have a few 3d titles I still want to play them. trouble is now with the UHD titles the choice before was standard blu-ray or 3d now you have to choose 3d or UHD.   it's a shame that these retail stores tell people not to buy a panasonic claiming samsung is a better tv. check out any store and you will find the samsung and LG displayed well and you have ask where the panasonic are. 

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@Tweaky Let us know how you go, I am definitely interested in some examples of your before and after calibration shots and your opinion.

 

The price difference as you noted is quite significant between the Oled and LCD/LED, with some of the JB HiFi sales of late I was tempted at upgrading to a bigger tv like the Panasonic but was hesitant after reading some of the online comments as you mentioned.

 

I also didn't want to just upgrade for the larger size but regret it if the picture quality was a long way short of OLED.

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@Tweaky no consideration for the sony oled ?, the 65" was 5 something. thats not that much for a screen it is. and has oled capability. does it have 3D no idea but man there is no way id go back to smaller screens for 3D its jut not the in your room immersive experience get with a projector. frankly i cant imagine spending so much on a flat panel ! as a jvc 7900 ? and taking a down size in scree area ? and yeah i wouldn't permanently have a screen larger than 65" in the lounge room either. even bigger than 55:" might be pushing it as tend to dominate the room which is why i like the drop down projector screen :)

 

anyways if my kuro died tomorrow am sure be going through same connundrums ... though one thing for sure my projector will be staying :D

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5 minutes ago, :) al said:

@Tweaky no consideration for the sony oled ?, the 65" was 5 something. thats not that much for a screen it is. and has oled capability. does it have 3D no idea but man there is no way id go back to smaller screens for 3D its jut not the in your room immersive experience get with a projector. frankly i cant imagine spending so much on a flat panel ! as a jvc 7900 ? and taking a down size in scree area ? and yeah i wouldn't permanently have a screen larger than 65" in the lounge room either. even bigger than 55:" might be pushing it as tend to dominate the room which is why i like the drop down projector screen :)

 

anyways if my kuro died tomorrow am sure be going through same connundrums ... though one thing for sure my projector will be staying :D

I saw the Panasonic 65" oled last w/end. Forget the Sony this thing was something to die for......if only I had coins to spend!   

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26 minutes ago, Whites said:

@Tweaky Let us know how you go, I am definitely interested in some examples of your before and after calibration shots and your opinion.

 

The price difference as you noted is quite significant between the Oled and LCD/LED, with some of the JB HiFi sales of late I was tempted at upgrading to a bigger tv like the Panasonic but was hesitant after reading some of the online comments as you mentioned.

 

I also didn't want to just upgrade for the larger size but regret it if the picture quality was a long way short of OLED.

I upgraded to the 75" and trust me, the picture is spectacular! Sent a 65" series 7 samsung back to the shop and got the Panny instead. It is better in almost every respect even though its 10" bigger. I paid $4100 nearly 3 months ago so I expect it can be had for less than that now. The Sony oled is fantastic, but even if it was only $500 dollars more, I'd still have the Panny for the extra 10". 

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2 hours ago, :) al said:

@Tweaky no consideration for the sony oled ?, the 65" was 5 something. thats not that much for a screen it is. and has oled capability. does it have 3D no idea but man there is no way id go back to smaller screens for 3D its jut not the in your room immersive experience get with a projector. frankly i cant imagine spending so much on a flat panel ! as a jvc 7900 ? and taking a down size in scree area ? and yeah i wouldn't permanently have a screen larger than 65" in the lounge room either. even bigger than 55:" might be pushing it as tend to dominate the room which is why i like the drop down projector screen :)

 

anyways if my kuro died tomorrow am sure be going through same connundrums ... though one thing for sure my projector will be staying :D

No, the Sony didn't even register in the possible purchase radar, neither did any of the Samsung's or Top of the range LG's ....sorry, but IMHO a lot of the range of TV's on the market ATM are crap.

OLED done wrong [As most is ATM, unless current TOP Tier sets ] is not worth having.

 

Little point spending big $$ on a screen that can't be calibrated well, or at all [Hisense screens CAN'T BE CALIBRATED - ] See the video below explaining why.....REC-709 is going to love this video:popcorn:

 

 

It's not a matter of saving money, [I could still purchase JVC 9500 as well] but currently, I want to find out what the "Bang for Bucks" I will get from this Panasonic LCD.....and I think you, and the rest of the forum members would be equally as interested as well.

 

Especially since the DTV forum merge :thumb:

Edited by Tweaky

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17 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

No, the Sony didn't even register

why though ? 

 

because of this ? 

18 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

.sorry, but IMHO a lot of the range of TV's on the market ATM are crap.

OLED done wrong [As most is ATM, unless current TOP Tier sets ] is not worth having.

suggesting its oled done wrong ? why may ask or some other reason ? 

 

19 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

Little point spending big $$ on a screen that can't be calibrated well, or at all [Hisense screens CAN'T BE CALIBRATED

i agree.... suggesting sony cat be calibrated ? from what I read tony calibrated one of these if i recall, said came up pretty well ? or some other reason to disregard the sony ?

 

2 hours ago, Addicted to music said:

I saw the Panasonic 65" oled last w/end. Forget the Sony this thing was something to die for......if only I had coins to spend!   

would have to see it side by side with the sony to see what fuss is all about :)

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1 hour ago, :) al said:

anyways if my kuro died tomorrow am sure be going through same connundrums ... though one thing for sure my projector will be staying :D

Considering led or oled atm Al and leaning to the 780a as its about 1.2k less than a $4k LG 65" OLED for the same size at bing lee etc and I don't have a batcave :ahappy: . Am curious to see active 3d on a UHD screen too ; earlier UHD models used passive 3d.. In any case 3d is a unique selling point compared to all the others with regard to resale..

 

Happy with my jvc7000 for 3d but a smaller panel with a retractable screen appeals to me as well like your setup . Don't want too big a screen but do want to experience a 4k hdr video game or 2 . btw Lionsgate missed a sale here with the UHD but no 3d version of Bessons Valerian ; not to worry I tracked it down :cool:https://www.zavvi.com/blu-ray/valerian-and-the-city-of-a-thousand-planets-3d-includes-2d-version/11525075.html

 

AS for HDR I am not encouraged at the lack of DV players on the market apart from oppo ;but license costs and chipset incorporation isn't cheap ' HDR plus is license free and the 780 will get the firmware soon afaik ..

 

Yes Tweaky any cal  and grey scale approximations will be welcome whether rec709 or bt2020  :)

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OK cwt.

The link to the Valerian movie [Is that  region free ?

 

I'll answer questions to other posts ....need sleep:blush:

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33 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

OK cwt.

The link to the Valerian movie [Is that  region free ?

 

I'll answer questions to other posts ....need sleep:blush:

 Tweaky ; its a region B UK bluray so same as our Aus blurays :thumb:

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8 hours ago, :) al said:

 

would have to see it side by side with the sony to see what fuss is all about :)

It be a interesting comparison but it may disappoint :tongue:

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Recently I was forced to replace my 6yo TV with a new one due to an insurance claim, my budget was limited to around those listed in the title so 65" OLED is out of the question; I did look at the Panasonic but put off by the weight, not that portability should be an overriding factor especially as it may not be moved for months/years once in place; it was just something that bugged me.

Keeping in mind that the TV is mainly for FTA and the occasional kids movie while I am watching something else in the theatre, it needs to be good at up-scaling and motion. 

After reading the concerns with the Samsung at this price, I ended up ordering the Sony 65 X9000E and hoping for satisfaction when it eventually arrives. 

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1 hour ago, Mikeyday said:

Recently I was forced to replace my 6yo TV with a new one due to an insurance claim, my budget was limited to around those listed in the title so 65" OLED is out of the question; I did look at the Panasonic but put off by the weight, not that portability should be an overriding factor especially as it may not be moved for months/years once in place; it was just something that bugged me.

Keeping in mind that the TV is mainly for FTA and the occasional kids movie while I am watching something else in the theatre, it needs to be good at up-scaling and motion. 

After reading the concerns with the Samsung at this price, I ended up ordering the Sony 65 X9000E and hoping for satisfaction when it eventually arrives. 

Good luck with the X9000E, that was my next choice also.

After I sent the Samsung back my choice was between the X9000E and EX780. I went off the X8500E as the I like the performance of the backlit model better. I'm sure you will be satisfied when it arrives!

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2 hours ago, Mikeyday said:

I ended up ordering the Sony 65 X9000E and hoping for satisfaction

... you won't be disappointed, now well priced, excellent panel after calibration and not too bad out of the box either.

 

JSmith :ninja:

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Well guys I am in the same boat as I have sold my house and MY much loved JVC x5000 will be staying with the house, I wont have a dedicated theater room like i do now in the new house so dont know what too buy, I have a 60 F8500 plasma for general viewing and a 65 samsung led for my son to playstation on so was looking at a second hand plasma or this pana EX780 can be had for less than 4k with a $400 store credit ( so could get a ultra hd bluray player with that) the only thing that puts me off is i hate the samsung led it is a few years old but the blacks are terrible, can get a second hand 64F8500 for about 1k or grab one of these panasonics i will have to watch movies on it for a while so would like the 75 but will i regret not getting the excellent blacks from the plasma? what to do ? 

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41 minutes ago, chrisso1671 said:

i will have to watch movies on it for a while so would like the 75 but will i regret not getting the excellent blacks from the plasma? what to do ? 

The honeycomb panel design and local dimming gives very good black levels as Tweaky mentioned Chris :)

Quote

The Black levels achievable on these TV's is very very good already, not quite OLED as setup out of the box, but pretty close.

Pana used all their plasma experience with these sets ;)

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Thanks mate, will go check these out a little better in store!

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5 hours ago, Wags1503560380 said:

Good luck with the X9000E, that was my next choice also.

After I sent the Samsung back my choice was between the X9000E and EX780. I went off the X8500E as the I like the performance of the backlit model better. I'm sure you will be satisfied when it arrives!

 

4 hours ago, JSmith said:

you won't be disappointed, now well priced, excellent panel after calibration and not too bad out of the box either.

Thanks Guys, I have been without a TV for a couple months or more now so looking forward to it.

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20 hours ago, :) al said:

why though ? 

 

because of this ? 

suggesting its oled done wrong ? why may ask or some other reason ? 

 

i agree.... suggesting sony cat be calibrated ? from what I read tony calibrated one of these if i recall, said came up pretty well ? or some other reason to disregard the sony ?

 

would have to see it side by side with the sony to see what fuss is all about :)

The Sony didn't do 3D, and as would be Sony's want, was over priced for what you get, this is especially true for new released TV's.

The only reason I would actually choose a Sony TV is if I were a avid viewer of streamed content, which the Sony processing, I would have to admit, is second to none in doing, but I'm not into streaming at all, so the Sony again fails my needs.

I could understand the premium priced payed if Sony actually had a decent service center in Aus, but as I well know, it doesn't [OK, it's not the only brand that doesn't, but then again, they aren't charging the same prices]

 

As for OLED..there is a lot of jiggery pokery going on with some OLED set's to make the Blacks seem Blacker than they actually are, or at least to boost the perceived contrast levels.

This is usually to boost the Blue levels [which makes a screen seem brighter that it actually is].....I thought Samsung were bad for this generally with all their TV's historically, it's how they tune them, but with the advent of OLED, they are all at it to a varying degree.

Once calibrated, and rid of the huge Blue boost, OLED's don't seem to have the WOW! contrast range that people are paying for, they are actually paying for the equivalent of a 3rd generation Plasma.

There is also the banding issue that 'Can' pop up with OLED......I don't want to risk the TV lottery and find I get one that suffers this, and then complain only to get a reply back from the manufacturer that is 'Within Specification's' so I'm lumped with a dud.

 

As for calibration itself, well the Sony's can be calibrated well, but nowhere as well as a recent Panasonic.

The Panasonics adjustments are PRO level......why other manufacturers are scared to make these adjustments available on their TV's sort of stinks of 'Copy Right protection', where if they would give you these adjustment features, you would be able to make a Sony look like a Samsung/Panasonic etc, which in the Sony marketing peoples world, would undermine the dialed in 'Look' of Sony Tv's generally [Pushed to the Red ] [Samsungs pushed to Blue] [ LG pushed to Green -so they look brighter than TV's placed next to them]

 

As for my purchase of the 65EX780a, that went ahead yesterday, [After the salesman tried repeatedly to sell me a OLED , even though I said I knew exactly what I wanted as soon as I walked into the store].

The general thought among sale folks is Panasonic is thought of, at least at the moment, both with sales staff, and in the consumers minds, as equivalent to NOKIA.

A once great brand that has fallen from prominence.

Subsequently, I was told that they keep very little Panasonic TV's 'In Stock', so I'm having to wait to get mine that is being transferred from a different store, on Monday.

 

I must admit, buying a perceived 'White Elephant' does have it's virtues, I got a further discount on the already low price [another $50] so the 65 cost me AUS $2740, and since I bought it from Bing Lee, they gave me a voucher that all buyers of 4k Tv's get from them, equal to 10% of the purchase price, which I use towards getting a Panasonic UD 400 UHD 4K disc player , which ended up costing me another $125....all up TV and disc player came in at under $2900, which is $100 less than JB for the TV alone...Happy Days!:)

Edited by Tweaky

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