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6 hours ago, pc9 said:

In 2017 and again in 2018, Samsung promised to upgrade the KS 8000 TV to HDR 10+;  but it never happened. 

 

Its a shame because HDR 10+ on Prime Video titles, really pop on my Samsung Q8FN, whereas the same shows on the KS 8000 have no where near the same amount of immersion. 

 

The manufacturers want consumers to buy the latest models;  they do this by de-optimising TVs purchased a couple of years prior through firmware upgrades that reduce black levels and by not providing the latest features such as HDR 10+.    This has been going on for several years and...………….it really sucks.  

I didn't realize things had sunken that low as to manufacturers De-optimising a TV's Black level.......do you have proof of this?

 

I have my own calibration gear, and have not as yet noticed any De-optimisingof Balck level on my not quite two year old Panasonic EX model TV.

 

Panasonic use Mozilla open source software on it's TV's and Disc players

I'm currently looking at which file comparison software I should ue to compare the V*.231 update which has the HDR-10 decoder package, and the V*.232 which we got, that does not.

I suspect that V*.232 has had a simple edit to the install instruction line, telling it not to install on TV's in the effected regions.

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I'm waiting for some cables to arrive that will allow me to split the 1 X 5m strip into two smaller ones, so it hasn't been installed yet. Since it's the Xmas / NY time I expect delays with deliv

I haven't posted the settings yet {I just finished typing them out], just my calibration results. Here are my settings.   Calibration of Panasonic 65EX780a [65EX750].... All settings giv

Glad to see the settings seem to be a improvement. The contrast and colour seems far more realistic to me on the one using my settings.   Slightly OT: I was talking to one of the AVforu

The plot thickens.

 

Panasonic have now been caught Red handed denying all regions except UK/IRELAND/EURO the HDR-10+ decoder for the EX model in the last update.

 

The smoking Gun.

 

In a response from Panasonic Germany about a query regarding the HDR-10+ update, this was part of the reply.

QUOTE: "It was a last minute decision from the Marketing and Development departments to provide the HDR10+ update on the 2017 TVs anyway."

 

Which would also mean it was also a decision by the same dept to alter the update to a newer V*232 that bricked the HDR-10+ decoder from installing in all other regions.

 

This would also make any excuse on Panasonic's part that the HDR-10+ decoder could not be applied to the regions that didn't get it, on technical grounds, as pure BS.

 

Not that they have replied to my email on why we have been denied it as yet.

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I got a reply, and it's just as I expected.🤬

 

Thank you for contacting Panasonic Australia.
HDR10+ update will only be available on selected models for Panasonic Australia.
Included models are the following:
TH-65FZ1000U / TH-55FZ1000U / TH-65FZ950U / TH-55FZ950U / TH-65FX800A / TH-55FX800A / TH-75FX780A  / TH-65FX700A / TH-55FX700A / TH-65FX600A / TH-55FX600A / TH-49FX600A / TH-43FX600A
Please be advise that EX series has no HDR 10+ update.
As of date, there is no plan to upgrade it to HDR 10+.

For further enquiries, feel free to contact us
Regards,
 
Eduard Anthony De Asis
Panasonic Customer Care
 
I wish I was going to be there to see his face when he reads my reply 😀
 
Panasonic would have to really stupid to not fix this.
 
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Well, my FX 800 is on the list  -  what is needed to see HDR10+  and how will l know.

YOUTUBE has clips and my pic settings do change for them, but only shows that it is HDR.

 

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2 hours ago, Grumpy said:

Well, my FX 800 is on the list  -  what is needed to see HDR10+  and how will l know.

YOUTUBE has clips and my pic settings do change for them, but only shows that it is HDR.

 

Your safe Grumpy ;your model is newer and not on a promise like ours .. but listed in the specs . It will likely read something like dynamic[hdr10+] or standard in your hdr menu[ when activated by firmware]  .  if hdr auto is able to be selected the tv will auto switch to the correct bt2020 colour space.  The US discs are here 

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=300877

Our discs hopefully the same 😁

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14 hours ago, Grumpy said:

Well, my FX 800 is on the list  -  what is needed to see HDR10+  and how will l know.

YOUTUBE has clips and my pic settings do change for them, but only shows that it is HDR.

 

You can tell if your TV got the update by simply having any 4K device turned on and sending a signal to the TV.

When a 4K signal is detected, more options appear in the settings menu.

The one you want to look at is the HDMI HDR setting.

If the update has been applied the options would have changed from just ON or OFF to OFF, STATIC and DYNAMIC...the last being HDR-10+

 

As for the update I mentioned earlier that my Panasonic UB400 got, well sadly it's been confirmed that it did not,nor will it ever, and I imagine this applies to any of that generation of Panasonic 4k disc players  will get the HDR-10+ update.

And that's not a regional thing, that's worldwide.

 

AS for the reply I got from Panasonic regarding the EX780a not getting the update....well, you don't think I left it at that do you? 😀🤬

Here's a copy of a post I made at the UK's AVforum yesterday, I'd just posted a copy of Panasonics reply [the one I posted above]

 

I'd headed , Do you want a good laugh ? And it is a reply to the reply I got from Panasonic yesterday.

 

Feel free to contact us...OK I will.
I bet he will regret typing those words once he reads the reply I just sent him....see below.
By the way, my reply was to hopefully get a fix for ALL REGIONS that didn't get the HDR-10+ decoder in their regions latest update, not just my region 4.



Dear Eduard.

Where do I start ?

This is going to be a long read, so get a cup of coffee and a biscuit.....maybe a pot of coffee and a few biscuits.

Let start with some facts, that I'll prove to you by the use of information easily verified by visting Pansonic's own websites, and with the addition of copy of a email sent to another Panasonic EX780a/750 owner from PANASONIC, then we shall see what course of action you would like to take to ammend the situation, before Panasonic finds itself with a PR disaster on it's hands, one that is purely of it's own making.

By the way, I'm not having a go at you personally, but you are the Panasonic representative that has found themselves stuck having to deal with me....I'll tell you in a momentt who at Panasonic who you should get on to, to say fix this now, you have put us in this situation, it's embarassing.

I'll just start by saying the situation could very easily be fixed by Panasonic, if they choose to do so.

Also a explanation of Pansonic's software udates, if you didn't know already, and how to decode them.

Each region has it's own code, but the update numbers themselves stay the same.....so it goes like this. V..then Region Code. then the actual update number.

2 is North America [Canada basically since Panasonic is no longer available on the USA market]
3 is UK/Ireland/Euro/CIS
4 is Oceania/Asia/Africa/Middle East
9 is Latin America

You can verify this by going to Pansonics own site a checking each different region.
Download Information of TV | Download | TV | Digital AV | Support | Panasonic Global

Now a bit of info about the 2017 EX range that was superceded last year with the FX range.

It was multi tiered, there was the lesser EX600 edge lit range, and the top of the line EX780a with VA panels and the same top of the line processing chip as found in Panasonics OLED TV's.

The 780a was sold with the promise of future HDR-10+ update.....which has happened, and people have got it and using it, but only in the UK/IRELAND/EURO region, where the EX780a was sold as the EX750...it's EXACTLY the same TV, only the model number differs.

Now this update that the above region got was called V3.231, this update contained the HDR-10+ decoder that once installed, changes the option in the HDMI HDR menu from what was prior to the update, just ON or OFF, to once the HDR-10+ decoder is installed now shows OFF, STATIC and DYNAMIC...the last being the HDR-10+ decoding.

Now there was a lot of confusion from various Panasonic support people when questioned regarding this update, and if the EX750/780a actually DID get the HDR-10+ decoder, a lot of the support Panasonic support people, like yourself said NO it didn't.

But then those in Region 3 started reporting that, yes, it does indeed have the HDR-10+ decoder, and many a screen shot of the HDR-+ logo when watching Amazon HDR have been posted at the UK's AVforum, which I have been a member of for many years, as well as many other Audio Visual related forums worlwide.

Not only that, they also posted pictures of the changes to the HDMI HDR menu, showing the new options....so there is undeniable proof that they were telling the truth.

So where did it all go wrong for the rest of the world regarding this update?

Why didn't WE get it with the last update that came out on the 16th of this month?

Here's a hint.... A Copy of the reply a forum member in Germany got from Panasonic when questioning about HDR-10+ and if it was going to work on his EX750/780a.

Bezug nehmend auf Ihre Anfrage teilen wir Ihnen mit, dass es uns natürlich sehr leidtut, dass die Kommunikationen was das HDR10+ Update betrifft, so abgelaufen sind. Es war eine kurzfristige Entscheidung vom Marketing und der Entwicklungsabteilung, dann doch das HDR10+ Update auf den 2017 TV-Geräten bereitzustellen.

Translation

Of course we are very sorry that the communication about the HDR10+ update happened like that. It was a last minute decision from the Marketing and Development departments to provide the HDR10+ update on the 2017 TVs anyway."

So we now know who at Panasonic made the decision to make the 2017 model EX750/780a HDR-10+ compatible, the Marketing and Development departments.

So by all rights, the same situation should have happened here for EX780a owners, when we got the V4.231 update on the 16th OCT.

It didn't happen, and here is the crux of the whole problem your have been lunbered to sort out, as I, and all those other EX780a owners that I am with regular contact with are really pissed off about.

[ I Calibrate TV's and PJ's, and have been for years, I have shared several different Calibration setting for the EX780a at a power gamma, and BT1886 with all EX750 and EX780a owners worldwide, at several diffewrnt forums, that's how I know a LOT of owners]

Problem was we didn't get V4.231 we got V4.232, and that version has obviously been modified to deliberately stop the HDR-10+ decoder installing ......as a bit of a computer nerd, I imagine that is the course of action was taken to modify the update, as it's far easier to do that , than it is to remove a whole bunch of code from a otherwise perfectly written software update, especially for the person that has been charged to do it, as they would have to done it for the other two effected regions as well.

So there you have it, now you know the problem.

Here's the recommended fix, it would be easy to do, and could be implemented very quickly.

Simply have the person charged with writing the software updates, to release another modified modifed version [sarcasm ], one that unlocks the HDR-10+ decoder for the effect regions, just as it should of done in the first place.

I strongly suspect it would only take a change to one line of code, much like you can turn options on or off by editing a coputers OS registry.

Sorry for putting you in this position, but Panasonic has been caught out, and because it is easily verifiable that the desicion to deny whole regions a update, all because of misguided desicion by the Marketing dept, it does not look good [especially when the HDR-10+ is a FREE open source codec, it makes this action look even more petty .....if it were a denial of a software update to include Dolby Vision, it would be understandable, as that is licenced software, but it isn't.]

Panasonic is going to lose a lot of face with customers worldwide, if and when the news gets out about what's gone down.....Just saying....plenty of Tech writers would love the story, especially as it's provable.

Looking forward to some good news, maybe a announcement along the lines that Panasonic 'surprisingly found' that the missing HDR-10+ codec was a mistake on tha pert of the software writers, and that a new update is hastily being readied for the effect regions to include it....bring on updates V 2.33......V4.33 and of course V4.33

Regards.

PS. Feel free to send a copy of this email to those A-Holes at Panasonics Marketing and Development departments.



DAMM I just realized my spelling checker didn't work, it sucks typing when I can only use one eye ATM

I wonder what will happen now ?

Edited by Tweaky
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Well I got another absolutely useless reply from our so called Australian Panasonic support Dept.

His reply was along the lines of, "I checked with our technical dept and that's what they told me".....a  total waste of time communicating with them further, as I'm obviously talking to useless office drones.

 

I warned them, and I gave them a chance, but they didn't take it.

 

So, I did what I said I was going to do.

I've just sent a email to Peter Wells who writes the Tech columns in the Sydney Morning Herald ...usually found at the back page of the SMH's 'The Guide' week long TV guide that comes out on a Monday.

 

I worded it much more prosaically than my reply email to Panasonic , explaining the situation, presenting the facts, showing the evidence, and asking for his assistance.

 

I asked if he could either find a way to get through to somebody at Panasonic and have the update fixed so we get HDR-10+, or to Name and Shame Panasonic in print for what they have underhandedly  done to the Australian Panasonic customers....if it happens to us now, it will happen again and again....time to take a stance.

 

If on the other hand feels he can't assist, if he could recommend  a course of action that we EX780a owners could take.

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  • 3 months later...

Just purchased 55GX1000 for the bedroom before panasonic disappeared for AU, and the HDR setting is showing as dynamic and also have dolby vision.

at least I have one tv with 10+

Edited by Lynne Mangold
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On 21/02/2020 at 1:35 PM, Lynne Mangold said:

Just purchased 55GX1000 for the bedroom before panasonic disappeared for AU, and the HDR setting is showing as dynamic and also have dolby vision.

at least I have one tv with 10+

Good for you.

I found it pointless trying to pursue the HDR-10+ update for the 780a, as it's blatantly clear to see from the last update number we got, which was the next one after the one the UK update that had HDR-10+, that Panasonic had purposely chosen to deny it to 780a owners in Australia.

Nice TV's , pity about the update politics Panasonic played with Australian owners.

 

FWIW,the difference I saw between a standard HDR disc and the same with HDR-10+ on a  friends TV [Also a LCD TV] was barely perceptible, and unless you knew what to look for, I doubt most people would notice a difference.

I don't know if that would be the same finding on a top flight OLED TV though, I have a feeling the larger contrast range of the OLED would show off the differences better.

 

Looks like I'm back to Sony for my next TV.

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2 hours ago, Tweaky said:

Looks like I'm back to Sony for my next TV.

 

I have found Panasonic  service in Australia to be amongst the worst of the big brands, even though their gear is amongst the best.  Their TV's have long disappeared from displays at stores that I visit  ( probably winding down before the official withdrawal)  so I ended up buying a couple of Sony smart 4K Tv's for a couple of rooms in the house.

 

Initially I wasn't too excited about Sony's use of Android ( I have Apple OSx and iOS gear) but its pretty cool as it turns out.  I can still seamlessly stream to the TV from iOS appliances as the Tv's  have  Miracast, airplay 2 and chromecast capability.

Being Android, I  have been able to get all my streaming services on the TV's at once. - Netflix, Stan, Prime Video and Kayo sports  without having to resort to an external source. For Apple TV+ and iTunes material,  instant high quality streaming happens from my iPad or MacBook pro.     I am not sure if this level of support is available on all Sony models however.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 6 months later...

I just found this thread when googling to try and find out what I just witnessed.

 

 I was viewing the TV guide and went to menu to change settings and I saw options I've never seen before. There were heaps more picture settings than before and it was set to 'ultra vivid', I also noticed THX cinema, isf day/night and professional etc.

 

 I closed the guide to see if these were part of a new firmware, but the pic settings were the usual when I closed the guide. Thought the settings were only available on the menu, but couldn't find them again. 
 

It was as if I'd somehow found a secret menu.

 

Anyway, I have never properly calibrated my ex780, except for some guide that was linked in avrforums or something and I didn't like the look. I just saw @Tweaky 's guide and will try it out. I had never checked usage hours either and just discovered mine has over 10,000. Whoaaa.

 

Anyone know why I was able to see about 20 picture presets?

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2 hours ago, Esoterica said:

I just found this thread when googling to try and find out what I just witnessed.

 

 I was viewing the TV guide and went to menu to change settings and I saw options I've never seen before. There were heaps more picture settings than before and it was set to 'ultra vivid', I also noticed THX cinema, isf day/night and professional etc.

 

 I closed the guide to see if these were part of a new firmware, but the pic settings were the usual when I closed the guide. Thought the settings were only available on the menu, but couldn't find them again. 
 

It was as if I'd somehow found a secret menu.

 

Anyway, I have never properly calibrated my ex780, except for some guide that was linked in avrforums or something and I didn't like the look. I just saw @Tweaky 's guide and will try it out. I had never checked usage hours either and just discovered mine has over 10,000. Whoaaa.

 

Anyone know why I was able to see about 20 picture presets?

 

It's basically the same software that was in the higher end Panasonic OLED TV's that do have those extra settings, but just doesn't show unless you have the settings at Ultra Vivid.

Pity it didn't work.

I'm annoyed at Panasonic because the exact same model TV in Europe got the update with HDR-10+, a few weeks later in Australia we got a update that was one number along, with the HDR-10+ software update removed.

 

If you use my settings, use the second BT1886 gamma calibration, it's a better all around picture when viewing different sources, rather than just Blueray which what the first gamma 2.2  was made for.

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Cool, but how come I had access, then it was gone? I've never seen the 'ultra vivid' option before. Figured it was only applicable to the menu, but couldn't get it again.

 

 I tried your BT calibration, and did a few comparisons using Blade Runner 2049 BD. Compared to 'true cinema' mode, I found your settings better in a way, but not as rich. The richness of true cinema comes at the cost of a strong blue/green tint though.

 

I'll have to view various media to test it properly, but it looks promising 👍


What do you set the colour space as? I chose native for this comparison. I probably use rec2020 mostly.

 

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Colour space REC 709.

 

I noticed that calibration shifts over time, especially as the TV ages, so my calibration will probably look different on my TV

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  • 2 weeks later...

Guys ,

What are the best settings for HDR content  ?.  Mine is calibrated for rec709 but I have not clue how to properly calibrate for hdr. Just want the basic settings and leave it at that.

Thanks

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21 hours ago, gillmaverick said:

Guys ,

What are the best settings for HDR content  ?.  Mine is calibrated for rec709 but I have not clue how to properly calibrate for hdr. Just want the basic settings and leave it at that.

Thanks

 

It's pretty much the same, and not really worth making any special adjustments TBH , which I found out after I ran over the TV with my calibration gear.

 

Once you have the Grey scale correct, which is the major part of any calibration, that's pretty much it as long as you keep the viewing mode to the one closest to D65, which on the EX780 is True Cinema.

Most modern TV's colour is pretty good straight out of the box and doesn't need that much done to it, calibration wise, it's the Grey scale where they fall down badly.

 

All 4K TV's use software called Tone Mapping, which limits the output when in 4K mode after a certain IRE, which on the EX780 hits at around 70 IRE. [The Highlights are from 70 IRE to 100 IRE ]

 

With current calibration gear it is impossible to calibrate past this point, mainly because there is NO HDR Standard for the amount of light [NITS] on any manufacturers TV puts out, the EX780 maxes out at around 550 NITS with it's Tone Mapping engaged.

 

So basically if your picture [Grey Scale] is correct at REC 709, it will be in HDR.

 

You'll see more of a difference in picture using different 4K Disc players than you would if you calibrated for 4K.

 

Panasonic 4K disc players can put out a slightly Hot/ Over saturated color compared to a OPPO or Sony, they all look different, which is another reason not to bother with copying anybody elses settings for 4K, at least color correction, if you ever see them posted

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1 minute ago, Tweaky said:

 

It's pretty much the same, and not really worth making any special adjustments TBH , which I found out after I ran over the TV with my calibration gear.

 

Once you have the Grey scale correct, which is the major part of any calibration, that's pretty much it as long as you keep the viewing mode to the one closest to D65, which on the EX780 is True Cinema.

Most modern TV's color is pretty good straight out of the box and doesn't need that much done to it, calibration wise, it's the Grey scale where they fall down badly.

 

All 4K TV's use software called Tone Mapping, which limits the output when in 4K mode after a certain IRE, which on the EX780 hits at around 70 IRE. [The Highlights are from 70 IRE to 100 IRE ]

 

With current calibration gear it is impossible to calibrate past this point, mainly because there is NO HDR Standard for the amount of light [NITS] on any manufacturers TV puts out, the EX780 maxes out at around 550 NITS with it's Tone Mapping engaged.

 

So basically if your picture [Grey Scale] is correct at REC 709, it will be in HDR.

 

You'll see more of a difference in picture using different 4K Disc players than you would if you calibrated for 4K.

 

Panasonic 4K disc players can put out a slightly Hot/ Over saturated color compared to a OPPO or Sony, they all look different, which is another reason not to bother with copying anybody elses settings for 4K, at least color correction, if you ever see them posted

Thanks Mate ,

I have the Greyscale spot on . Never bothered wit HDR  calibration either. I just purchased New Nvidia Shield and Netflix HDR looks good but thought of improving it. Anyway Will leave it as it is. Cheers

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