Jump to content

Panasonic TV Owners & Discussion Thread


Recommended Posts

Hmm I could swear the green/grey tinge I see when the TV is off changes to a more black tone when I power the thing up & have shadows or another black image displayed. Sure, the blacks still don't match the black bezel, but they seem more convincing than when the screen is off.

I initially thought it could be because my eyes are being fooled by the other bright colours on screen, making the black areas seem more black.........but it has happened a few times.

Could it be that the screen behaves differently when powered on when it comes to displaying blacks, Owen? (sounds like a stupid question I know).

A Plasma screen never gets darker than when its switch off, compare it in a dark room and you will clearly see the added glow of idle luminance when switch on.

With bright content on screen you get the illusion of better blacks but when a dark scene is displays that has no bright content black level is limited by idle luminance in a dark room and screen filter performance in a non dark room.

In a non dark environment a decent LCD outperforms any Plasma for perceived blacks and contrast, but in the dark the poor native contrast ratio of LCD is a real hindrance to image quality. Plasmas like the Kuro are good in the dark but by no means perfect, no way blacks are blacks in the dark.

If you don’t notice that blacks are not black consider your self fortunate, I see it easily and find in distracting, that’s why I have always had a problem with blacks on digital displays. After living with projection CRT I know what I am missing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Well actually panasonic are now allowed to use whatever Pioneer plasma technology they like. In their exit from the plasma scene Pioneer extracted the last money they could from the technology by selling the patents/IP rights to Panasonic for about $80 million. Panasonic own these patents but only since April 09, by which time neoPDP was well and truly finalised. It is possible some of the signal processing tech may have found it's way into the current gen though.

Next generation panas will be the ones to really benefit from this technology transfer.

That’s good news but I wonder how long it will be before we see any benefit?

Since Panasonic don’t have much competition there is no incentive to invest in technology to improve blacks unless they can see money in it. Since the vast majority of buyers could not care less and find existing performance levels entirely adequate I wont be holding my breath.

Edited by Owen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I

Yes the Pioneers tended to look dark as they where optimised for dark room viewing, its one reason they did not sell. Most people are attracted to over bright TV’s, generally the brighter the TV the better people like it, even though it caused eye strain and is totally unsuited to a dim or dark viewing environment and needs to be turned WAY down.

That’s understandable, the Pioneers where not suited to the typical viewing environment.

Thanks for your informed reply Owen.

Most of our wives would complain and whine if we told them we were going to dim or turn the lights right down so we can get the most out of our new Pio Telly/

Well if yours doesn't then you are a very lucky man.

I haven't thought that deep into it as this is what Pioneers marketing team gets paid for but this TV was designed for the discerning viewer who had full command of his domain.

As you have probably guessed there are not many of these type of people out there so the end result was predictable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....Since Panasonic don’t have much competition there is no incentive to invest in technology to improve blacks unless they can see money in it.....

They've just invested $80m into it by buying the Pioneer knowledge/patents!

And Samsung/LG show no signs of leaving the field just yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

$80M is not a lot for Panasonic, better to buy the patents than let Samsung or LG get hold of them, even if they don’t ever use them.

Samsung is the only real competitor as it stands and they don’t seem as committed to Plasma as Panasonic, LG have never been in the running.

Edited by Owen
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Thanks for clarifying that Owen

I used to own a pio lx509 and never noticed the screen to blend in with the black bezel infact the screen was a lighter shade than the bezel.

Granted it was a darker shade than my v10 but It tended to lose a lot of shadow detail which was disappointing. PQ on the set was very dim and unless

you have lived with the set you may find this hard to digest.

I am enjoying my v10 as it ticks a lot more boxes for me than the Pioneer did.

Had to sell it as it was just too small for my viewing area.

Well I for one could not disagree more having a LX609 I most of the time on dark scenes find it extremely difficult to know where the screen dimensions are! JMHO

cheers laurie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got my new Pana 65" installed yesterday after the glass crack issue on Fri. The drivers at HN this time opened the package outside to make sure that the glass was all OK and the luckily everything went without a hitch and I watched Terminator Salvation on the screen. The THX mode is quite dark but I think it shows a better picture set that way for movies and TV series. The other modes may be best for sports etc. I find THX better than Cinema mode as well. Wow what a screen that is. Its a lot better than my old Hitachi Plasma. Very easy to operate too and the remote is nicely laid out. All in all I'm very pleased and lucky I didnt have to wait months more for a new unit after the glass crack.

Edited by chuna
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I for one could not disagree more having a LX609 I most of the time on dark scenes find it extremely difficult to know where the screen dimensions are! JMHO

cheers laurie

I don't doubt you Laurie but in my room which is well lit by ambient light entering the room via the western window in the afternoon the bezel and screen could be easily separated.

IF I drew the external awning and tilted the blinds making the room dim then I can agree with you but this is also the situation with the v10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't doubt you Laurie but in my room which is well lit by ambient light entering the room via the western window in the afternoon the bezel and screen could be easily separated.

IF I drew the external awning and tilted the blinds making the room dim then I can agree with you but this is also the situation with the v10.

I find it interesting that some people actually think that the bezel and screen should be indistringuishable when there is ambient light in a room. Mission impossible I think no matter what the technology ! Of course we do expect that as technology improves that the difference will diminish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting the screen as dark as the bezel on a Plasma is difficult but there is a very big difference between the best and worst examples. The 5 series Samsungs and Panasonics seem about the same, both have basically no tolerance for ambient light, even a small amount of light falling on the screen is enough to make it look grey and noticeably degrade contrast. I could not buy the 65” Panasonic 3 years ago because of black level problems, blacks have improved in a dark room, although not enough, but does not seem to have improved at all under ambient light.

The 6 series Samsungs are better, they tolerate a moderate amount of light well but under strong light they are little better than the 5 series and Pana’s.

The 8 series Samsungs are miles in front, the improvement in contrast offered by the very effective screen filter is stark.

I have never been able to directly compare the 8 series Sammy with the Kuros but they seem similar, the Sammy may even be in front.

No matter how effective the filters on the 8 series Sammy and Pioneers may be they cannot compete with a decent LCD for blacks and contrast under significant ambient light, combine LCD’s super effective screen filters with their high brightness and there is no contest. Because of this I am looking at an LCD for a new very bright sun room. I am no fan of LCD as many here will know, but it’s a simply case of suitability to task.

The Panasonics where always out of the question, the 8 series Sammy was considered because of it good screen filter but deemed not bright enough for daytime viewing. The dirt cheap 50” 768p Sammy B450 is bright enough and has more than enough resolution for the 3 meters viewing distance but it has the same sort of inadequate screen filter as the Panasonics and 5 series Sammy. This does not leave me many options especially when the edge lit LED LCD's are out due to poor performance.

Edited by Owen
Link to comment
Share on other sites



While absolute BLACK and absolute WHITE would be nice its the graduation of greylevels close to BLACK and the graduation of greylevels close to WHITE that gives the better picture. Obviously blacker BLACK and whiter WHITE helps but this should not be sought for that reason alone.

Back on the TH-P65V10A. I find the greylevel separation in the blacks to be great (just don't set the contrast too high). Unfortunately I cannot find a setting that gives excellent greylevel separation in the strong whites without drastically reducing the strongest white.

Edited by hpotter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason we "calibrate" displays is to get the most accurate grey scale, colour and gamma the display is capable of. The limit to how high we can set the "contrast" control (how bright we can make the picture) is set by the maximum light output of the weakest colour (usually blue for phosphor based displays). The green and red, which have greater output must be turned down to match blue and the contrast control must be set low enough to avoid clipping or non linearity at the bright end of the spectrum

All Plasmas also suffer from negative dynamic contrast, they are unable to maintain output linearity and brightness when high average picture level scenes are displays such as full screen snow scenes. Peak white in such a bright scene is typically more than 30% dimmer then peak white in a dim scene, contrast is therfore much lower in bright scenes than in dim ones. This why people say Plasmas have "dirty" whites, they are not really dirty just dimmer than they should be relative to the video input signal due to the compression.

If we use a full screen grey scale ramp to set contrast as high as possible the upper end of the gray scale will likely be clipped in dim scenes where peak output can be more than 30% higher.

It is therefore important to check the top end of the gray scale with a near white grey scale ramp running in a small window so as not to run into the panels inherent full screen output limits.

If you run the contrast control up high enough to clip whites you are very likely to suffer burn in as you are driving the panels phosphor pixels well above maximum and much harder than you should.

Correctly adjusted LCD's and most other display types do not suffer dynamic compression, even with their dynamic contrast functions disabled, a bright scene that should be twice as bright as a dim scene will be, where as on a Plasma it wont be.

Edited by Owen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we use a full screen grey scale ramp to set contrast as high as possible the upper end of the gray scale will likely be clipped in dim scenes where peak output can be more than 30% higher.

It is therefore important to check the top end of the gray scale with a near white grey scale ramp running in a small window so as not to run into the panels inherent full screen output limits.

Thanks. Shall run the contrast a little lower. And, enjoy the bright white highlights in darker scenes, and the subtle whites in snow scenes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



You guys have inspired me to upgrade to the 65" V10 now. Nearly double the viewable area compared with my old 46" Bravia...sheesh!

Reckon order now and wait for end Jan/Feb 2010 delivery or wait for sale next year and order?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys have inspired me to upgrade to the 65" V10 now. Nearly double the viewable area compared with my old 46" Bravia...sheesh!

Reckon order now and wait for end Jan/Feb 2010 delivery or wait for sale next year and order?

Think you may find the next batch of 65" Pannies coming end Jan are sold. The quicker you order the quicker you'll get one, cheaper in new year who knows?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Think you may find the next batch of 65" Pannies coming end Jan are sold. The quicker you order the quicker you'll get one, cheaper in new year who knows?.

I'd Be very supprised (And Pissed off lol) if they get cheaper than what you and I got ours for B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys have inspired me to upgrade to the 65" V10 now. Nearly double the viewable area compared with my old 46" Bravia...sheesh!

Reckon order now and wait for end Jan/Feb 2010 delivery or wait for sale next year and order?

Nearly double ?!? I 've owned the 65v10a and I 've seen the 46" bravia. The visual feeling

is like looking at a truck and a 1.3L hyundai

Faz,

For another 6 months, this TV price will be 20% cheaper. For another 2 years, it is worthless.

As long as you enjoy with what you paid for that is good enough. Thinking about others that

have paid and still waiting for the unit will make you feel better. Thinking about others that bought

the previous model or the Kuro for 8K+ even make you feel better. So the point is: don't look

up, look down to live in happiness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys have inspired me to upgrade to the 65" V10 now. Nearly double the viewable area compared with my old 46" Bravia...sheesh!

Reckon order now and wait for end Jan/Feb 2010 delivery or wait for sale next year and order?

I'd Be very supprised (And Pissed off lol) if they get cheaper than what you and I got ours for B)

The general rule is the longer you wait the cheaper electronics get. I would not be surprised if the 65V10A is cheaper in the new year. It all comes down to what is more important to you -- getting the TV early... OR ... getting the TV cheaper?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my 65v10 arrived today, bloody hell this thing is huge. Perfect size for my theatre room anything bigger is just too big.

Rubbish, give it a month and you will hanker for the 85".

I have been living with a 70” for 3 years viewing from 3 meters and it’s not quite big enough for 16:9 content, for the wide aspect ratio movies it’s definitely inadequate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...
To Top