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9 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

My 9 position measurements looked like this:

2  3    4  5

       1

6  7    8   9

Centred around MLP (position 1), I have a longer couch. Top row is front edge of couch, back row is back edge of couch. I chose 9 because my room is open on left side and this gave Anthem a better average. 

4

Thanks for this. My room is also open on the left side :). So I might use your example too. Are your other positions a fixed X metre from position 1? 

 

With Audyssey, it's more 'plug and play', if you know what I mean. 

 

Thanks again for this. Nice to work this through with a helpful community.

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8 minutes ago, ph3ng said:

Thanks for this. My room is also open on the left side :). So I might use your example too. Are your other positions a fixed X metre from position 1? 

Measurements are averaged. Not necessary to be that precise, about 1 meter apart.

 

At the end of the day, it is not accuracy of measuring which counts but what ARC delivers. If it sounds good, that is all that matters. :)

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8 minutes ago, ph3ng said:

With Audyssey, it's more 'plug and play', if you know what I mean. 

 

Thanks again for this. Nice to work this through with a helpful community.

Having used Audyssey in the past, I think it’s more a case of plug and pray.

 

Many of the things you can tweak in arc can’t be tweaked easily in Audyssey. For sub room tuning alone, ARC yields vastly better results.

 

id love to get a look at an audyssey pro kit one day, but I’m thinking my next system will be either RoomPerfect or Dirac on MiniDSP, when I get some time to look seriously into it all.

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

My 9 position measurements looked like this:

2  3    4  5

       1

6  7    8   9

Centred around MLP (position 1), I have a longer couch. Top row is front edge of couch, back row is back edge of couch. I chose 9 because my room is open on left side and this gave Anthem a better average. Anthem does not mention how the listening positions are weighted, but guessing there is more weight in MLP than others. There is hardly anything about different ARC measuring patterns either.

 

Thank you for describing how Audyssey works differently to ARC. It will help others should they look at moving to ARC.

I bet you like audyssey, a very valuable tip for me came from chris technical director at audyssey was with more complex rooms less can be more with measurements. 

 

ie more can confuse... people think it will give a more awareness to the system of what conditions in room are but infact it is indeed averaging. so if you have some outliers too far from main listening position then it will impact on the main listening position to detriment. 

 

so if have for instance a L shaped room ro anything going off from the narrow beaten track id suggest a closer cluster... for audyssey anyways ... for arc maybe a different situation  ? 

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Further to what Al said:

 

multiple positions result in averaged outcomes.  If you have a 3-seat lounge, and the left seat has 'issues' then measuring there will increase the weighted correction to cover that issue.

 

ARC is trying to get a single location right - hence one main measurement and then 4 others each about 600 mm from the main measurement.  It isn't trying to get a perfect measurement in all 3 seats (which is impossible in most rooms).

 

Benje

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2 hours ago, :) al said:

I bet you like audyssey, a very valuable tip for me came from chris technical director at audyssey was with more complex rooms less can be more with measurements. 

 

ie more can confuse... people think it will give a more awareness to the system of what conditions in room are but infact it is indeed averaging. so if you have some outliers too far from main listening position then it will impact on the main listening position to detriment. 

 

so if have for instance a L shaped room ro anything going off from the narrow beaten track id suggest a closer cluster... for audyssey anyways ... for arc maybe a different situation  ? 

Important point to note for people who understand such things, but not sure ARC, Audyssey users will care?  When I first started ARC, I was more interested in the listening results, but I did not have the knowledge then either.

 

1 hour ago, Benje said:

Further to what Al said:

 

multiple positions result in averaged outcomes.  If you have a 3-seat lounge, and the left seat has 'issues' then measuring there will increase the weighted correction to cover that issue.

 

ARC is trying to get a single location right - hence one main measurement and then 4 others each about 600 mm from the main measurement.  It isn't trying to get a perfect measurement in all 3 seats (which is impossible in most rooms).

 

Benje

The inter seat variation of bass is the biggest challenge and not something that ARC nor any other room correction can solve.  Am using MSO  to do this (but best to continue discussing this in MSO thread ).

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1 minute ago, Snoopy8 said:

Important point to note for people who understand such things, but not sure ARC, Audyssey users will care?  When I first started ARC, I was more interested in the listening results, but I did not have the knowledge then either.

its something i think some dont perhaps understand too well. eg ive seen people think because they have two rows of seating they should run their measuring positions all round those... where in some cases the 2nd row is against a back wall. well guess whats  going to happen with the bass gain all the eq system does is kill the bass to compensate ! 

 

in other extreme eg if have quite a bit of variation between even say front 3 seats... and if really wanting to setup for yourself a good suggestion is just to cluster measurements around your head ie a small variation but not straying too far. 

 

at end of it you simply cant eq for all potential seating positions its just going to give a very average result pardon the pun :D sometimes its better to just eq for the main listening position and the rest can be what ever. its an approach i take for equing sub base for 2ch. I only measure for the main listening position ie the sweet. i have make no bones about it... there is only one sweet spot when comes to 2ch in m,y setup hehe

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ph3ng

 

once you understand that your are really optimising for one spot, it follows that the other measurements are just a cluster at 600 mm distance from the main point.

Why would you go to some point where no-body sits, where response is difficult and include that as part of the weighted response across all measurements to determine the average correction.

 

Because of my room, my 3-seater lounge has quite different response on the left (near glass windows) and on the right (near a large room expanse).

I know if I correct for the left side then the right and centre will be wrong, and if I correct for the right side then the centre and left will be wrong.

If I include all three at wide spacings, then none of them will ever be correct.

So, I choose to get the centre correct.  I sit in the left, and my wife sits in the right, and neither of us get the 'correct' response but we still get a good response.

If I want the correct response and I'm watching/listening by myself, then I sit in the centre seat of the three seater lounge.

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17 hours ago, Benje said:

ph3ng

 

once you understand that your are really optimising for one spot, it follows that the other measurements are just a cluster at 600 mm distance from the main point.

Why would you go to some point where no-body sits, where response is difficult and include that as part of the weighted response across all measurements to determine the average correction.

3

Thank you for that. It's something that's certainly missed by me previously. Makes sense. 

 

Would it be ok for me to post my measurements here and have you/others provide critiques/suggestions/input on the graphs? I'm still learning how to read it all and understand what to do.

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25 minutes ago, ph3ng said:

Would it be ok for me to post my measurements here and have you/others provide critiques/suggestions/input on the graphs? I'm still learning how to read it all and understand what to do.

Ok to post measurements here but what are hoping to achieve?  Maybe we have misled you that you need to spend a lot of time fine tuning measurements and ARC?   Your ears are the best judge and if it sounds good to you, there is no need to get redo things.  Trust your ears...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys.Hoping someone here can assist with an issue. I sold my Submersive subwoofer with the HP amp upgrade to a member on here and they are having an issue with it. Th unit was in perfect working order when it was shipped so I'm hoping it's a simple fix. They are running an Anthem MRX-720 receiver so the hook up should be pretty straight forward with an XLR cable connected to the sub then using the supplied XLR-RCA adapter straight into the Sub output on the Anthem. It's been reported that the bass is very weak and turning up the volume on the sub itself does nothing to improve the situation. The owner originally just used the supplied XLR-RCA adapter to connect between the Sub and the Anthem but it was reported that when the RCA end came close to the Chassis it produced an audible hum even before it was connected. I advise them to purchase a new XLR cable and adapter to rule out a faulty adapter but it hasn't resolved the weak bass but has removed the hum.

 

I'm on night shift tonight and was hoping if there are any other Submersive owners running these subs with a receiver and did you encounter this type of issue. Thanks in advance.

Edited by SimonNo10
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48 minutes ago, SimonNo10 said:

Anyone?

Don't have a submersive Simon but it could be a crossover issue in the anthems bass management if the hi pass filter has created a low freq suck out with the  subs low pass filter ?

Quote

 

The subwoofer has a separate single low-pass filter (LPF) frequency. All the full range signals from the main channels are summed to a single mono signal, and the single low-pass filter follows before the signal is applied for the subwoofer.

If you set some speakers to a higher crossover value than the subwoofer LPF, you will get a hole in the response from the point the HPF crossover has rolled off the main speaker to the point the LPF allows the subwoofer to becomes active. This may be unavoidable if you are using small rear and surround channel speakers, with larger speakers for the left, right, and center.

 

Quote

Yet another LPF to the subwoofer should be present for the LFE (low Frequency Effects) input (sometimes called subwoofer-out on a DVD or Blu-Ray player). The issue is the LFE channel has a spectrum up to 100Hz. In Anthem products, the LFE is summed with all the other channels before it enters the subwoofer LPF (note no selection box for the LFE channel in the panel above). If the LPF is selected lower than 100Hz (we want to match the main channels HPF to prevent overlaps discussed above), then information in the LFE above the selected crossover will be lost. Some AVRs have an extra LPF at 100Hz just for the LFE, which then bypasses the LPF for all the other main channels, and solved this problem. This is shown in the panel above.

 

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1 hour ago, SimonNo10 said:

Anyone?

Simon, have they run ARC?  Suggest they use Quick Measure to check average Db of  mains and sub, adjust sub gain if necessary and rerun ARC.

 

Note that there is a 6 db difference between rca and xlr.

Edited by Snoopy8
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9 minutes ago, Toothdoc said:

I just got the 520 yay. Is it me or do all the sound modes sound really bad but analogue 

Anthem music logic or direct is best for music. Also time to tweak to enable full range speakers

 

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15 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Simon, have they run ARC?  Suggest they use Quick Measure to check average Db of  mains and sub, adjust sub gain if necessary and rerun ARC.

 

Note that there is a 6 db difference between rca and xlr.

Yes he has but his saying bass is very poor and low compared to the rest of his system. I’ve asked him to post on the AVS dedicated Anthem thread as there’s  allot of SubMersive owners in the US. 

 

If he posts here to fully explain his setup and post his graphs etc then others here can better understand what the problem could be. I’ve suggested everything I can but now I’m out of ideas. The sub was working perfectly the night before I boxed it up. There was no damage to the box when it arrived in Sydney. 

Edited by SimonNo10
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44 minutes ago, SimonNo10 said:

Yes he has but his saying bass is very poor and low compared to the rest of his system. I’ve asked him to post on the AVS dedicated Anthem thread as there’s  allot of SubMersive owners in the US. 

 

If he posts here to fully explain his setup and post his graphs etc then others here can better understand what the problem could be. I’ve suggested everything I can but now I’m out of ideas. The sub was working perfectly the night before I boxed it up. There was no damage to the box when it arrived in Sydney. 

Get him to post here and I will help him. In particular, the page where you can tweak, and greyed out at the top the relative levels of the speakers.  Note that I am traveling today so will not be able to reply till late.

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1 hour ago, Snoopy8 said:

Get him to post here and I will help him. In particular, the page where you can tweak, and greyed out at the top the relative levels of the speakers.  Note that I am traveling today so will not be able to reply till late.

Thanks but it’s confirmed his HDMI board on the Anthem is faulty as the sub works fine when connected to the analogue output. 

 

Thanks for the replies guys. 

Edited by SimonNo10
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