Jump to content

Recommended Posts

here you go, OLED actually has a higher dynamic range capability .... than LCD....

Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Well lets introduce some simple math into the equation to show whether or not this is the case. HDR stands for HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE. Dynamic Range relates to the difference between the highest and lowest point a display can display. This can be expressed as a ratio by taking the highest point and dividing it by the lowest point. This is also known as on/off contrast ratio. So:

OLED: 1,080,000:1 (540/.0005)
LCD: 20,000:1 (1000/.05)

As you can see, OLED has SUBSTANTIALLY more dynamic range than the specs for LCD based display with 1,000 nits. The overall CR of a LCD is actually pretty sad and would result in blacks that look more gray than black. With low APL imagery the difference between the two would look massive. But most LCD displays have zoned backlighting that helps with this. When we move to Dolby Vision content it actually has frame by frame metadata for controlling zoned backlighting and dynamic contrast systems that should help even more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, doggiehowser1503564764 said:

Don't dismiss the ZD9 so quickly. The blacks are pretty damn impressive.

This is true.  I own one, and the blacks are very black.  On letterboxed movies, the black bars completely disappear.  The local dimming zones in those areas turn the LEDs completely off.  That is true black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, doggiehowser1503564764 said:

Don't dismiss the ZD9 so quickly. The blacks are pretty damn impressive.

not dismissing... but even in that video you posted ... its so visibly deficient its not funny :D  but hey it might be just the video...happy to see in the shop for myself :)

that said if the oledis only sold with its floppy bottom and wobbly screen audio and such i still see as a bit of a waste to be spending on. and then again my kuro might never die... goodness knows what screens we will have when it eventually does hehe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is true.  I own one, and the blacks are very black.  On letterboxed movies, the black bars completely disappear.  The local dimming zones in those areas turn the LEDs completely off.  That is true black.

Exactly.

It isn't just contrast ratio or the JVC X9500 would have trumped all over it.

It's the way the ZD9 handles the glare when the camera catches the light in Planet Earth.

That highlight was ALSO in the video in side by side comparisons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


And with HDR, it's a no brainer.  The specular highlights on the Z9D are amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Craig M said:

And with HDR, it's a no brainer.  The specular highlights on the Z9D are amazing.

Stop it guys, I'm still waiting for mine to ship here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, said:

the silly peaks of LCD are really unnecessary and in any case OLED has bridged the great part of the gap there was previously. so will be in an even better place than ever :)

Interesting article below that shows how HDR works against having an overly bright room [ which is counterintuitively led's strong point ] . The 2nd HDR quote is encouraging for a 7000e projector Al :) 

Quote

Here’s the rub: because [Backlight] and [Contrast] are already maxed out on HDR televisions during the playback of 4K Ultra HD Blu-rays, there’s no straightforward way to increase the display’s light output during the day to avoid the picture being drowned out by competing ambient light – a good analogy is how you need to boost your smartphone’s screen brightness under the sun for the text to remain readable. Even with only a moderate amount of ambient light in our test room, dark HDR scenes (such as the dust storm sequence in The Martian) became extremely difficult to watch – our constricted pupils just weren’t able to discern sufficient shadow detail in the presence of room light.

Quote

 

This EOTF (ST2084) is intended to enable the creation of video images with an increased luminance range; not for creation of video images with overall higher luminance levels. For consistency of presentation across devices with different output brightness, average picture levels in content would likely remain similar to current luminance levels; i.e. mid-range scene exposures would produce currently expected luminance levels appropriate to video or cinema.

 

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MrGadget said:

Stop it guys, I'm still waiting for mine to ship here.

The last and best of the 4k 3d panels ? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


16 minutes ago, cwt said:

Interesting article below that shows how HDR works against having an overly bright room [ which is counterintuitively led's strong point ] . The 2nd HDR quote is encouraging for a 7000e projector Al

its a very good point... 

8 minutes ago, cwt said:

The last and best of the 4k 3d panels ? :)

goodness knows why they would drop 3D off the A1, thats definite minus for that screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, MrGadget said:

Stop it guys, I'm still waiting for mine to ship here.

Congratulations on obtaining one. Not sure on the Sony Strategy here as they never really pushed the Z9D and supply has seemed to be very limited and hardly ever seen in a retail store. Not useful if trying to boost a few sales. 

Just have to wonder if a similar situation will occur with the new A1 Oled 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, said:

here you go, OLED actually has a higher dynamic range capability .... than LCD....

Are you serious, Al? Would anyone here not already know that?  In fact we usually read that OLED provides infinite contrast.

 

15 hours ago, said:

the silly peaks of LCD are really unnecessary

They might be superfluous in a darkened room. I would be hesitant to say that for daytime viewing, or for nighttime viewing with some lights on.

 

On 5/7/2017 at 11:16 AM, said:

things like added  brightness of the lcd is of little relevance i would suggest .even in mastering even though mastering range by studious might be 1000 nits they dont ever use anything akin to that sort of scale in reality. id rather the black capabilities of oled. can even in that little clip see the benefit of which and thats not knowing if they have rigged to make more apparent or anything.

Whatever the studios may or may not be doing as regards mastering, and that would be on a title by title basis I would suggest, we can see in that "little clip" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE2Jj9pgWWk) that the screen on the left (the OLED) looks dimmer than the screen on the right, all the way through the demonstration. It's quite a substantial difference, affecting not just occasional peak whites.  

I'd prefer the screen on the right to be honest if simply using the clip to evaluate, as it appears on my LCD TV display. Of course -- as we've often remarked on this forum -- with today's high performance sets you can't get too much useful guidance about PQ from displaying a webpage picture or a web video of such a set using your own computer monitor, TV screen, or projector.

 

Edited by MLXXX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, cwt said:

Interesting article below that shows how HDR works against having an overly bright room [ which is counterintuitively led's strong point ] .

 

Here’s the rub: because [Backlight] and [Contrast] are already maxed out on HDR televisions during the playback of 4K Ultra HD Blu-rays, there’s no straightforward way to increase the display’s light output during the day to avoid the picture being drowned out by competing ambient light – a good analogy is how you need to boost your smartphone’s screen brightness under the sun for the text to remain readable. Even with only a moderate amount of ambient light in our test room, dark HDR scenes (such as the dust storm sequence in The Martian) became extremely difficult to watch –

our constricted pupils just weren’t able to discern sufficient shadow detail in the presence of room light. [emphasis added]

Cwt, I've noticed myself that with my LCD TV in HDR mode displaying a UHD HDR source that I cannot discern the shadow detail in the daytime. I have to watch HDR content at nighttime. I find this is not such a problem with conventional Blu-rays as their mastering typically employs a gamma curve that crushes the darker shadow detail to black to begin with.

These issues are not easy to deal with. For years I have complained about crushed blacks in conventional Blu-rays, but now that we at long last have HDR video being supplied to us, there is still the question whether the display technology can really deliver it. And even whether our eyesight can actually see it depending on the state of constriction of our pupils.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


6 hours ago, MLXXX said:

Cwt, I've noticed myself that with my LCD TV in HDR mode displaying a UHD HDR source that I cannot discern the shadow detail in the daytime. I have to watch HDR content at nighttime. I find this is not such a problem with conventional Blu-rays as their mastering typically employs a gamma curve that crushes the darker shadow detail to black to begin with.

These issues are not easy to deal with. For years I have complained about crushed blacks in conventional Blu-rays, but now that we at long last have HDR video being supplied to us, there is still the question whether the display technology can really deliver it. And even whether our eyesight can actually see it depending on the state of constriction of our pupils.

Good to hear your in use perspective MLXXX ; I would consider a specular highlight from HDR  being all the more dramatic when transposed with a truly dark backdrop ; just as happens in real life with say a fireworks display . But this is only speculation on my part as I am still to get a uhd panel ;)  It seems logical that SHD and UHD are graded differently for gamma when mastered as you have 66gb to play with not 50 anymore and its all about finer "shades'' ; 

Yes display technology is in its infancy with oled as each generation makes strides in nit levels ; this quote was from CES 2015 and is the picture parameter oled is focusing on thankfully :)

Quote

The result is an increase in peak light output of highlights from about 500 nits (a measure of brightness) using the current technology to 800, an increase of 60 percent.

 

Edited by cwt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Australian Sony Z9D received the Android 7.0 update rollout today.

On-screen menus have changed.

Also, I'm now getting consistent Dolby Digital + bitstreams from HDMI-ARC via the built-in apps of Netflix and Amazon Prime to my Yamaha receiver.  This bodes well for Netflix's eventual rollout of Dolby Atmos via streaming to Android TVs.

 

This is not the Dolby Vision firmware update though, which is rumoured to be released around August sometime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, doggiehowser1503564764 said:

 

Well worth a watch if you are considering the two. 

 

Excellent unbiased comparison. Pitch black viewing with treated walls and ceiling OLED is the go. Light room, the choice becomes harder. (Pick your poison)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


3 hours ago, gbickle1503560852 said:

Excellent unbiased comparison. Pitch black viewing with treated walls and ceiling OLED is the go. Light room, the choice becomes harder. (Pick your poison)

Decisions are very difficult, particularly if wanting a very large screen size where the premium to be paid for OLED over LCD is still considerable or OLED might not be manufactured yet in that larger size.

I have an extra factor to include in the mix in that the main TV is also often used for net surfing and word processing, i.e. as a computer monitor. The Automatic Power Limiting of OLED would tend to kick in when the screen was required to display almost entirely white.  I suspect my next purchase will be of a FALD LCD, despite the fact that some aspects of PQ would not be as good as with OLED technology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting he said that the 2017 lg;s are the only models with dynamic tone mapping for hdr10 metadata to maintain apl's  @ around the 17.24 time :) That's a plus for those who want a good price ..

If only oled had higher peak brightness to match LCD ; with UHD discs being mastered at 1000 and 4000 nits I would prefer the tone mapping to better cover those ranges -and that means LCD ; and it means little if the tv is a bit thicker to do proper backlighting ^_^'and there is also the 3d and games factor for those inclined..

Edited by cwt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MLXXX said:

Decisions are very difficult, particularly if wanting a very large screen size where the premium to be paid for OLED over LCD is still considerable or OLED might not be manufactured yet in that larger size.

I have an extra factor to include in the mix in that the main TV is also often used for net surfing and word processing, i.e. as a computer monitor. The Automatic Power Limiting of OLED would tend to kick in when the screen was required to display almost entirely white.  I suspect my next purchase will be of a FALD LCD, despite the fact that some aspects of PQ would not be as good as with OLED technology.

2017 Oled does 150nits on 100% white with ABL. 150nits is still too bright for me when using PC.  I would need sunglasses to use a PC monitor at 600nits but each to their own I guess.

I have a 65" 2016 Oled which I use as a PC monitor and dont find ABL an issue.  Having said that the Z9D is better in some ways than the OLEDs and if I had a bright room I would probably have gone Sony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, gbickle1503560852 said:

2017 Oled does 150nits on 100% white with ABL. 150nits is still too bright for me when using PC.  I would need sunglasses to use a PC monitor at 600nits but each to their own I guess.

I have a 65" 2016 Oled which I use as a PC monitor and dont find ABL an issue.  Having said that the Z9D is better in some ways than the OLEDs and if I had a bright room I would probably have gone Sony.

Thanks for your comments regarding use of a 65" 2016 Oled.

I had been recalling my experience of a few years ago with plasma where the cutting in of the ABL was quite noticeable (as well as flicker for my flicker-sensitive eyes!). But perhaps if a late model OLED were set to a relatively dim level then it could operate as a pc monitor without ABL cutting in; and that relatively dim level might still be bright enough for net surfing and word processing and spreadsheets.  I'll have to look into this aspect carefully if I start seriously considering a particular OLED model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MLXXX said:

Thanks for your comments regarding use of a 65" 2016 Oled.

I had been recalling my experience of a few years ago with plasma where the cutting in of the ABL was quite noticeable (as well as flicker for my flicker-sensitive eyes!). But perhaps if a late model OLED were set to a relatively dim level then it could operate as a pc monitor without ABL cutting in; and that relatively dim level might still be bright enough for net surfing and word processing and spreadsheets.  I'll have to look into this aspect carefully if I start seriously considering a particular OLED model.

Not sure which Plasma you had but I would say it would be half the brightness or less of the 2017 OLED on 100% white. OLED and LCD are so much better than Plasma for a PC Monitor in many ways.

100" OLED cant be too far away.  Id actually consider buying 4x 55" Oleds to make a 110" 8k screen using a high powered PC and Video card if they were completely borderless.

But anyway, back on track (dont want to derail thread). Sony did an amazing job with the Z9D and showed what could be done with LCD. It was as if the engineers were given a task of creating the best possible LCD Display device without worrying about a budget.

Edited by gbickle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, bradp51 said:

Looks like it is gone again.  65 in just too small though.  Would have liked to see a high quality 85 or 100.

gosh shudder to think what 100 would cost ! but yeah for big screens have to be 85 + I think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Isaac Otaiza
      Item: Blade runner 2049 4k UHD 
      Location: gold coast
      Price: $15
      Item Condition: used once only
      Reason for selling: No longer required
      Payment Method: Pickup - Cash, Paypal, COD Only
      Extra Info:
       
      Photos: Advertisements without photos of the actual item will not be approved.

    • By angmavris
      Item: Panasonic UB900 4k UHD Blu-ray player
      Location:Sydney
      Price: $350 price reduced  
      Item Condition: Excellent hardly used 
      Reason for selling: NRQ 
      Payment Method: Pickup - Pick up or buyers expense Cash, Paypal, COD Only
      Extra Info:: Has hardly been used . remote was damaged by child ordered a new one see attached photo not the one that one that come with the unit but does control unit and works fine  , power cable and original packaging  and all paper work included that came with unit 
      https://www.techradar.com/au/reviews/audio-visual/blu-ray-players/panasonic-dmp-ub900-1312558/review
      Photos: Advertisements without photos of the actual item will not be approved.
       
       
       



    • By Stephen0804
      Item: LG UP970 4K HDR Blu-ray player
      Location: Aberfoyle Park, SA
      Price: ~ $200 O.N.O. 
      Item Condition: Very Good, not used often 
      Reason for selling: got a new tv and am upgrading to get the features i require 
      Payment Method: Pickup - Cash, Paypal, COD Only
      Extra Info: supports Dolby Vision and hdr, has Youtube and Netflix apps. 
      would have to check if i have original box but i have everything that came with it. 

      Photos:

    • By zakblue
      Item: Seiki SE39UY04 4k UHD 39" TV/Monitor
      Location: Balwyn, Vic
      Price: $175
      Item Condition: Good
      Reason for selling: NLR
      Payment Method: Pickup - Cash, Paypal,
      Extra Info:
       
      This tv/monitor is an early iteration of 4k (no HDR). It supports 4k at 30hz only.
      It also does 124hz at 1080p so great as a large gaming monitor with low input latency.
      It's an 'in between' size so if you've got a medium room it will likely work well for you.
      Local Pickup only.
       
      Reviews here:
      https://www.amazon.com/Seiki-SE39UY04-39-Inch-Ultra-Discontinued/product-reviews/B00DOPGO2G

×
×
  • Create New...