New Build (Hopefully Final)

[ratty05]

So, a while back I posted what I thought was our new house build.....things changed, design shrunk, but I think we're done now!

Room is now 6m x 4.5m. We have allowed 40cm at the front of the room (not included in the 6m) to hopefully build the speakers into the wall or put behind an AT screen, undecided at the moment, comments?

The room will have a bulkhead ceiling and we're aiming for star paneling in the center section.

Currently have Krix epicentrix, neuphonix (2) and seismix3 that I'd like to keep. Current screen size is 150" scope, would like to remain the same size if possible. will be upgrading the PJ and possibly the amp if needed.

Wife has chosen seating which has to go against the back wall.....not ideal, but it is what it is!

Sooooo, what would people recommend.... is it worth doing atmos with the seating against the wall? Where do the surround speakers need to be (ceiling or wall?).

Is it worth having that 40cm at the front to put the speakers behind the screen or do we just ditch it and box out the corners on each side to hide the speakers in.

Please fire away with how you guys would do it, any and all advice greatly appreciated!

I'll try to attach the plan.... ignore where it says feature wall at the front of the theatre room, that's how she's drawn the false wall to hang the screen on with speakers behind if it will work.

Edited May 25, 2016 by ratty05

[minty]

Massive house, very impressive.

Definitely go AT screen.

If you're only having one row of seats why not move them so they sit about 2/3rds of the way back? Re-position the door.

[ratty05]

Been there, argued that I'm afraid! She won't budge on couch placement...can move the door though!

What's the easiest way to do the AT screen, just a false wall, hang the screen on it with all speakers behind?

[Quark]

Massive house, very impressive.

Definitely go AT screen.

If you're only having one row of seats why not move them so they sit about 2/3rds of the way back? Re-position the door.

Can only agree with all of these points.

Been there, argued that I'm afraid! She won't budge on couch placement...can move the door though!

What's the easiest way to do the AT screen, just a false wall, hang the screen on it with all speakers behind?

Seating against the wall often results in poor sound due to reflections. Tell "Her" that you'll need to spend money on ugly wall treatment panels if the couch is against the back wall. You're only trying to save money!

A false wall is the easiest option. Some of the Krix products designed for this would be the best option, but you should be able to use your existing speakers if budget requires.

[SandS]

Yes very nice house, and I agree with minty. My room is 6m and I loose 600mm with AT screen but you can build a riser that allows you to bring the back row of seats back of the wall a little bit. Are you thinking 5.1 with atmos or 7.1 with atmos.

[ratty05]

You guys have more influence than I thought, she'll give in to 500mm off the wall! I'm guessing that's not enough?

Don't know about 5.1 or 7.1, probably 5.1 with atmos I'm guessing....

Taking it to builders tomorrow to start converting it from her plans to actual plans!

[Eli]

It's better than nothing! You're head should sit about 800mm off the back wall depending on the thickness of the back of the recliner. Once it's there just "accidentally" push it another 200mm. Say your tape measure wasn't calibrated properly.

RE: 5.1.4 or 7.1.4

If you are going Atmos you won't be putting surrounds in the ceiling, they will need to be on/in wall or on stands (don't think you have the room on the sides). Dynamix would be a good match. Just think about side surround placement and that couch... it doesn't look like there'll be much room.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Eli

[ratty05]

No that's why she wanted the couch against the back wall, you won't be able to get beside it.

If it can only be about 500mm off the back wall (plus a shove and a mis-measurement!), is it worth going 7.1 or just do 5.1? Would the symmetrix work?

[709er]

Fabulous house plan. So much space!

What is your HT ceiling height? What type of star panels are you thinking of? Fibre optic? Painted?

I don't think that 400mm behind the screen is adequate. Can you go to 600?

Any possibility of stealing some length from the gym and then add an extra row of seats/riser if you envisage larger audiences down the track

Lots more questions, but that's enough for now

[ratty05]

Thankyou! Could probably get 600mm behind the screen, which would allow for some built in sort of cabinetry below the screen to house amp, consoles etc. She's trying to get tricky and use some of that vacant space behind the screen for feature cut-outs in the entry way.

I think she's having 2700 ceilings and would like the centre part of the ceiling to go up rather than the bulkhead dropping down? We also want the bulkhead to run around the room but have a gap at the back for the PJ to sit in if that makes sense.

Hopefully the fibre optic star paneling.....see if there's any money left!

We did think about extra seats but 95% of the time there's only 2 or 4 of us in there so we thought bugger it, extras can have bean bags!

Edited May 25, 2016 by ratty05

[709er]

Thankyou! Could probably get 600mm behind the screen, which would allow for some built in sort of cabinetry below the screen to house amp, consoles etc.

I think she's having 2700 ceilings and would like the centre part of the ceiling to go up rather than the bulkhead dropping down? We also want the bulkhead to run around the room but have a gap at the back for the PJ to sit in if that makes sense.

Hopefully the fibre optic star paneling.....see if there's any money left!

Excellent re scraping more space!

You may find that many subwoofers suitable for a room that size would be close to, or deeper than 400mm - not to mention that speakers behave more naturally when not boxed into a corner or too close to a wall.

A 150" scope screen would be fantastic. Our screen in 2.35:1 mode is a mere 136" and we love it Are you going 4K on your PJ?

[ratty05]

Good point! I had forgotten the sub woofer, it's about 500mm deep so if I put 600mm behind the screen it should fit too.

Will see what PJ's are around once it's built but more than likely go 4k. I currently have a JVC that I'm pretty happy with so probably go with them again. I'd imagine we'd be about 12 months away at the moment though.

[minty]

Agree with needing at least 600mm space behind screen.

With the seats being 1 row you really need to get your way and have them at 2/3rds back. The way I see it is either way you have "dead" space, it's either dead space between the seats and the screen or its dead space between the seats and the back wall.

With the seats forward a bonus might also be that you find you could run a slightly smaller screen (140"/145") and get the same effect.

Edit - Whatever way you go I have no doubt it will look and sound awesome.

Edited May 25, 2016 by minty

[Eli]

No that's why she wanted the couch against the back wall, you won't be able to get beside it.

If it can only be about 500mm off the back wall (plus a shove and a mis-measurement!), is it worth going 7.1 or just do 5.1? Would the symmetrix work?

I agree with Minty in that it's kind of dead space between the seats and screen... that's a fair distance and even a small amount could be used to improve audio immensely, as well as bringing you closer to the picture. I use a 150" screen and sit 3.5 or so metres away.

I also had Neuphonix behind an AT screen, I left about 900mm. It was more than needed but remember that they are rear ported so allow at least 200mm behind and give them room to breathe out the back also (eg. don't box around them)... that's 600mm total with the Neuphonix so fits the sub too. The Symmetrix would also match nicely and get them a little further from the side listeners. I still don't think I would be putting them directly next to a listener though if the seating goes right up against the wall. I'd maybe place them just a tad back from the seating line (and maybe a little touch higher) keeping them within the 110 degrees and placing your rear surrounds as close together as spec allows (150 degrees) to give more separation.

It probably won't help heaps but here's how I did the fake wall - http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php/topic/96650-elis-ht-build/?p=1949306 . Just for some ideas on a similar setup. *Edit: For some reason the link goes to the start of the thread, page 5 shows the Neuphonix in place.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Eli

[ratty05]

Hopefully meeting with draftsman on the 6th to go through the plan. After looking at some build threads on here, I may have just convinced the wife to go with a raised seating section with the couch about 500-600mm from the back wall.

What's a good height for the riser? She was only thinking a small one about 100-150mm?

With the speakers, I'll be keeping my current front, left, right and sub. The rest will have to be new (current house has in ceiling which will obviously stay). So to go atmos, I would need either 2 or 4 ceiling speakers plus 2 or 4 new surrounds/rears? I'm thinking at the moment 2 in wall speakers and then 2 in ceiling but will I need 4 in ceiling because the current fronts aren't upward firing?

Can the in ceiling go in the bulkhead running around the room?

[Eli]

You only have one row of seats so riser can be anything you want. I'd do max 300mm and check requirements if you need a step. With one row I'd be keeping it lower (you don't need height for back row to see over anyway).

You'll need to decide how many speakers you want at each level. 5.1 or 7.1 and then 2 or 4 ceiling speakers. How many speakers you need will be decided from this.

Try not to get confused with ceiling Atmos speakers and Atmos enabled modules (upward firing). Once you figure out how many speakers you want at each level you will know which way to go.

Having your couch close to the back wall limits your options, so does having a full room width couch. A metre in from back wall and you could go a full 7.1.4. Getting towards 500mm off back wall and you're starting to cram in a lot of speakers in a small space. You can't have side surrounds in your ear due to the couch so may need to put them back a tad - meaning less separation between rear surrounds and also having 4 surround speakers in a small space. Not to mention cramming rear Atmos heights up against your back wall. May be a better idea to stick to 5.1.2 if you can't move the couch.

The Atmos heights are best lined up with the L and R so likely in the bulkhead they could be a little wide and get a bit close to the walls.

Just some things to think about.

[Zinzan]

From a design perspective, if you're only going 4 seats I would kind of say you don't need a room that big. You could shorten the room by a metre. As you're building you'll understand that the cost is largely a function of the dimensions of the space.

Would also recommend the couches are not jammed hard into the side wall. Same as others have said on the back wall. Bass builds up along the boundaries and additionally it makes surround placement challenging. With 4.5m width you should be able to get something that's very luxurious and fits more comfortably.

EDIT: where's your equipment rack going? Amp, bluray player etc

Edited May 28, 2016 by Zinzan

[minty]

^^^

His wife has already chosen the furniture so that ain't going to happen

[ratty05]

Yep, wife has chosen furniture so no chance! To be honest though I prefer not to get involved in that side of things....just give me a shed!

Equipment will hopefully go in a built in rack below the screen using the deadspace created by the false wall.

There will only be about 10cm gap either side of the couch, and she doesn't want the bulkhead super large so ATMOS might not work as she wants to eventually have that star panelling on the ceiling. Might just stick with a good set of rears to go with the fronts and just have 5.1.

I've seen a few 3d mockups in build threads on here, what are people using to do that? We're meeting with the draftsmen on Monday so I need to describe what I need for the screen wall to him.

[Eli]

Sketchup is a great, easy to learn program. Spend a couple of hours on the tutorials and you will be able to do more than you think.

[ratty05]

OK, been playing a bit more today. If we stuck with the current screen size of 150" scope, I'd need the PJ mounted about 546cm from the screen (@1.8 zoom). Does this leave enough in reserve to be able to do both 2.35 and 16:9 (with a JVC 7000 for arguments sake, will depend what's around come the time)?

Also to 'hide' the PJ in the bulkhead (not actually in it just stopping it where the PJ will be then starting again) it looks like it'll need to be about 600mm deep. Is that wide enough to put ATMOS ceiling speakers in on the side or too close to side walls?

With the false wall for the AT screen in place and some slight tweaking it looks like currently being 5.9 x 4.5 (with another 600mm behind the screen for speakers) for the room as a whole.

I currently have a CAVX Mk3 lens, not sure if it's worth taking with or just use the zoom method these days?

[Quark]

OK, been playing a bit more today. If we stuck with the current screen size of 150" scope, I'd need the PJ mounted about 546cm from the screen (@1.8 zoom). Does this leave enough in reserve to be able to do both 2.35 and 16:9 (with a JVC 7000 for arguments sake, will depend what's around come the time)?

Also to 'hide' the PJ in the bulkhead (not actually in it just stopping it where the PJ will be then starting again) it looks like it'll need to be about 600mm deep. Is that wide enough to put ATMOS ceiling speakers in on the side or too close to side walls?

With the false wall for the AT screen in place and some slight tweaking it looks like currently being 5.9 x 4.5 (with another 600mm behind the screen for speakers) for the room as a whole.

I currently have a CAVX Mk3 lens, not sure if it's worth taking with or just use the zoom method these days?

I wouldn't bother with the Mk3 lens - as a prism based lens it's going to soften the X7000's image a lot. Zoom is better unless you're prepared to stump up for a cylindrical lens like the Mk4 upwards.

With a large screen and the lowish gain of AT material, adequate lumens will be an issue. I wouldn't go much over the minimum throw of ~5.0m for 150" scope - maybe 5.1m to give a margin for error (brightness drops with increased throw distance).

A throw of 5.1m is fine for zooming to a 16:9 image on a 150" scope screen - you can run the numbers by using the calculator set for the same throw distance and the same image height of ~58" for both aspect ratios (58" gives a 16:9 image of ~118" diagonally).

Edited June 2, 2016 by Quark

[ratty05]

I'll see what the wife thinks of having a super wide bulkhead (about 1m) running around the room. On the plus side I guess it would definitel;y allow the ceiling speakers to work and also cut down on the amount of star panelling required!

[YourMateDyl]

OK, been playing a bit more today. If we stuck with the current screen size of 150" scope, I'd need the PJ mounted about 546cm from the screen (@1.8 zoom). Does this leave enough in reserve to be able to do both 2.35 and 16:9 (with a JVC 7000 for arguments sake, will depend what's around come the time)?

Also to 'hide' the PJ in the bulkhead (not actually in it just stopping it where the PJ will be then starting again) it looks like it'll need to be about 600mm deep. Is that wide enough to put ATMOS ceiling speakers in on the side or too close to side walls?

With the false wall for the AT screen in place and some slight tweaking it looks like currently being 5.9 x 4.5 (with another 600mm behind the screen for speakers) for the room as a whole.

I currently have a CAVX Mk3 lens, not sure if it's worth taking with or just use the zoom method these days?

I'd be happy to mock up some renders if you want. I'm studying Drafting and Architectural visualisation, so it sounds like a fun project. Just shoot me some dimensions and what you have in mind.

[ratty05]

That would be awesome! What sort of dimensions would you need?

It currently sits at 5.9 x 4.5 with another 600mm behind the screen (picture a very large 600mm deep feature cutout on end wall). Below the screen we're thinking built in cabinets running right across the room to house all the gear (with the added bonus that they can vent heat into the space behind the screen).

I've been able to convince the good wife to move the couch forward 600mm off the back wall, although she now wants that space behind the couch to be a low built in cupboard on the other side (the gym room). So basically would be like a shelf running behind the couch if that makes sense.

If the PJ was 5m from the screen we'd run a 900mm bulkhead around the room leaving a gap at the back for the PJ to go in.

She'd also like the couch on a small 10 or 15cm riser, purely for looks I think but whatever.

Now I just need to do a sheetload more on-call work to pay for it!