mello yello Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) big news that Cevo, thanks not sure if there is also a combo pack for each movie to mark the 50th anniversary of the first Star Trek TV broadcast or if the EzyDVD are the separate combo packs http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/5/11367592/star-trek-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-paramount but Sheldon will be thrilled Edited May 3, 2016 by mello yello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Star Trek (2009) Maybe not a true UHD BD? Cinematographic Process Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/technical?ref_=tt_ql_dt_7 Unless a new master is done for the UHD release? JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Star Trek (2009)Maybe not a true UHD BD?Cinematographic Process Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/technical?ref_=tt_ql_dt_7 Unless a new master is done for the UHD release? JSmith I don't know what resolution the negatives were scanned at that went into the DI, and whether such scans are still available to form the basis of a somewhat higher resolution new DI. I do know that the contrast at the cinema and on Blu-ray was exaggerated. I recall analyzing some of the Blu-ray frames. On the well lit deck of the Enterprise the hair of a number of the actors was encoded as black, and yet the deep space visible in the same frame was only a dark grey. In my opinion the Full HD Blu-ray for Star Trek (2009) is a good example of a Blu-ray authored with exaggerated contrast typical of pictures in a glossy magazine. There is accordingly much scope for an HDR version to use a more subtle approach to contrast, provided the shadow detail reduced to black in the earlier Blu-ray transfer is retrievable from the DI. This is a title I might purchase partly out of interest to see how it has been authored compared with the original Blu-ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Could it be that Blu-ray authoring practice in the past has been to very significantly clip bright highlights in the source? The comparison images below would suggest so. Unless of course the very bright object in the sky has been artificially edited into the HDR Blu-ray master!!! I'd mention in passing that I do find it interesting how many times in these comparison exercises that the HDR image is shown larger than the SDR image. The above images can be seen in the article at http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm The more I think about this subject matter the more I am inclined to think that HDR authoring with good shadow detail and good highlights detail may be what SDR authoring might have been had the average display device offered better contrast when Blu-rays first came on the market. That should have been possible even with 8-bit encoding. As is exemplified by the above comparisons being published as a jpeg embedded in a webpage, viewable on an ordinary monitor, in principle there seems to be no reason why you shouldn't be able to view a lot of the HDR goodness of shadow detail and highlights detail using a modern SDR display. It seems to me that a lot will depend on how the UHD players perform the mapping of the brightness levels in HDR content to an SDR device. What I see in the published articles strikes me as largely marketing hype trying to persuade readers that the only way to see HDR goodness is with an HDR display. That strikes me as likely to be a big exaggeration. The images used in the article I've linked to here are of the original Blu-ray and the UHD Blu-ray. I would very interested in seeing the UHD Blu-ray feeding an HDR display compared with the same UHD Blu-ray content optimally mapped to the HDMI input of a modern SDR display. What sort of mapping do the players just coming onto the market perform? Can they deliver good shadow detail and good highlight detail to a 4k display that lacks HDR? How much attention are the manufacturers paying to this aspect? Perhaps other forum members who have been reading up on these developments more than I have could comment on this proposition I am presenting that a good UHD player ought to be able to deliver good shadow detail and good highlight detail to a modern [high contrast] SDR display when playing an HDR encoded disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 This I think provides a partial answer to questions I raised at posts #298 and #304 above. The following excerpt is from a review of the Panasonic DMP-UB900 and refers to mapping of HDR levels to an SDR panel. This mapping feature is called "Dynamic Range Conversion". From https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-dmp-ub900-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-player-review.12538 :- The Picture Settings menu is where you can find additional controls for Sharpness, Noise Reduction, Colour and Luminance. In general we would leave these controls at zero but there is another control called Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment that some people might find useful. If you have a non-HDR TV the UB900 will automatically down-convert HDR content to SDR and assume the TV has a peak brightness of around 300 nits, However if you actually know the peak brightness of your TV, then you can use the Dynamic Range Conversion Adjustment control to move between a range which, although it actually doesn't say it, goes from 100 to 1000 nits. To get the best results you would really need a suitable test pattern but this control is a good example of the kind of functionality available if you like to tweak your player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Its still in its infancy MLXXX I think as the new smpte standards for HDR are thrashed out . The 5th paragraph in the following white paper mentions video ''compressed in traditional video systems" .Some uhd players will certainly do a better job at "downrezing' to sdr than others ; samsung takes an interesting tack according to avforum uk ; When a 4K display doesn't support HDR at all, the K8500 automatically detects this and down converts the HDR to Standard Dynamic Range (SDR). We have seen tests with the K8500 and TVs that don't support HDR and the player did an excellent job of down converting the content. We did find that the lower end was slightly crushed and the top end was slightly clipped but this is probably deliberate on the part of Samsung, to give the resulting SDR image a more contrasty look that will doubtless appeal to many consumers. This approach is actually quite sensible because although the player knows the 4K TV doesn't support HDR, it doesn't know the brightness capabilities of the panel. So what Samsung are trying to do is create an SDR experience that looks good on as many non-HDR 4K TVs as possible https://www.smpte.org/sites/default/files/Study%20Group%20On%20High-Dynamic-Range-HDR-Ecosystem.pdf Perhaps other forum members who have been reading up on these developments more than I have could comment on this proposition I am presenting that a good UHD player ought to be able to deliver good shadow detail and good highlight detail to a modern [high contrast] SDR display when playing an HDR encoded disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Cwt, reading the current manual for the Samsung K8500 player I see it doesn't appear to offer any adjustment for the HDR to SDR remapping, unlike the Panasonic UB900 which does. Perhaps a future firmware update for the Samsung player might be able to increase its flexibility in how it does the remapping. MLXXX has an HDR compatible set after all On a personal note, I discovered only a couple of hours ago by checking the picture menus on my own 4k set that it does now offer an HDR compatible picture mode in its settings. When I activate the mode it greatly increases the screen brightness. This feature is almost certainly the result of the type of Sony network firmware update mentioned in a Sony press release for Europe. My set is a KD65X9000C and would have an equivalent model in the European X90C series. I was prompted to check my set when I discovered the press release this afternoon. This set is not advertised in Australia as having HDR. Providing HDR compatibility for this set makes sense to me, as it has a very high brightness capability and good black level, though not as good as certain Sony models with local dimming. (In case anyone is curious as to why I have a new Sony 65" 4k set, after purchasing a Sony 65" 4k set less than two years ago, this 2015 model TV was recently supplied to me by Sony free of charge. They had been unable to repair my original set, which had developed a shadow across the top third of the screen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello yello Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 sorry gents, we interrupt this discussion to bring you some more info on the upcoming Star Trek UHD 4K release http://realorfake4k.com/my-product/star-trek/ real or fake ? Sheldon will be devastated :-( back to you MLXXX and cwt ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 http://realorfake4k.com/my-product/star-trek/ real or fake ? Mello, excellent to have a "real or fake 4K" site. However the following standard sentences, which they're using for the so-called "nearly 4k" Blu-ray titles, could definitely be edited to make the meaning clearer:: While it is not true 4K throughout, you will notice a significant improvement over standard (1080p/2K) Blu-ray. Either it has VFX rendered in 2K or the film was shot under 4K. Depending on the final mastering and care, the final picture quality might be imperceptible to Real 4K. I guess they'll revise that wording sooner or later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) Nothing as specific as the remapping the pana does certainly ; the pana has the resources of their technicolour studios who are one of the movers when it comes to grading , Until we get dynamic remapping with hdmi2.1 there may be a lot of tweaking to get the best out of each studios discs ; if you dont like samsungs one size fits all take which depends on your panel :question:And its about time they come through with an upgrade for early 4k adopters ; you had the good chipset This looks relevant to your situation of what to expect- https://www.avforums.com/threads/panasonic-dmp-ub900-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-player-review.2023929/page-69#post-23563130 Theres a similar thread @ bluray.com where 2k upscaled and native 4k dci's are identified iirc ; whatever gets atmos etc will be looked on by me favourably all things being equal Cwt, reading the current manual for the Samsung K8500 player I see it doesn't appear to offer any adjustment for the HDR to SDR remapping, unlike the Panasonic UB900 which does. Perhaps a future firmware update for the Samsung player might be able to increase its flexibility in how it does the remapping. MLXXX has an HDR compatible set after all On a personal note, I discovered only a couple of hours ago by checking the picture menus on my own 4k set that it does now offer an HDR compatible picture mode in its settings. When I activate the mode it greatly increases the screen brightness. This feature is almost certainly the result of the type of Sony network firmware update mentioned in a Sony press release for Europe. My set is a KD65X9000C and would have an equivalent model in the European X90C series. I was prompted to check my set when I discovered the press release this afternoon. This set is not advertised in Australia as having HDR. Providing HDR compatibility for this set makes sense to me, as it has a very high brightness capability and good black level, though not as good as certain Sony models with local dimming. (In case anyone is curious as to why I have a new Sony 65" 4k set, after purchasing a Sony 65" 4k set less than two years ago, this 2015 model TV was recently supplied to me by Sony free of charge. They had been unable to repair my original set, which had developed a shadow across the top third of the screen.) Edited May 4, 2016 by cwt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 http://realorfake4k.com/my-product/star-trek/ Shot on 35mm VFX Rendered in 2K Digital Intermediate at 4K 4K UHD release date on June 14th http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/technical?ref_=tt_ql_dt_7 Panavision (anamorphic) (source format) Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format) A new digital intermediate @4K for the UHD bluray... either that or one of these is wrong. JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello yello Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) yep, which one is real and which one is fake ? i tend to believe IMBb as MLXXX says, its all in the wording of the other website which doesnt really inspire confidence, at least they are questioning whether its 4k or 2k will be interesting to follow it Edited May 4, 2016 by mello yello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 as MLXXX says, its all in the wording of the other website which doesnt really inspire confidence, at least they are questioning whether its 4k or 2k Yeah but that seems to be the generic part... the info below that seems to be the specific info for that title. Anyway... Bowie is back with lovely Jenny, in UHD! http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Labyrinth-4K-Blu-ray/154897/ JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello yello Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 Free Discs included in purchase of the Panasonic player Mad Max San Andreas Lego Movie 2 of those http://www.whathifi.com/panasonic/dmp-ub900/review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKrvT9hgfGw shows Mad Max and Lego Movie in the box wow, upscaled 2K movies, free with every 4K player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello yello Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 Samsung will come with a copy of ... The Martian http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ub900-201602294254.htm the Samsung K8500 will ship with a complimentary copy of The Martian Ultra HD Blu-ray in certain regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I wonder why Batman v Superman is $10 less than other 4k pre-order movies? https://www.jbhifi.com.au/movies-tv-shows/movies-tv-shows-on-sale/adventure/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/955656/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminG Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 I wonder why Batman v Superman is $10 less than other 4k pre-order movies? https://www.jbhifi.com.au/movies-tv-shows/movies-tv-shows-on-sale/adventure/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/955656/ Distributors are trying to aggressively promote 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattis Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Can confirm JB Hifi in Bourke St (Melbourne) has discs in stock and they are $10 off as per online. I couldn't find them on the floor anywhere but after asking at the counter they located them and were able to sell Kingsman to me. Had to buy at least one title at lower than the Amazon landed price while it lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattis Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Apparently JB stores have been told to pull the 4K discs until they receive player stock. Stores are to get player shipments from tomorrow after which the discs will go back out on display again. I wonder when the 20% off sale finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Apparently JB stores have been told to pull the 4K discs until they receive player stock. Stores are to get player shipments from tomorrow after which the discs will go back out on display again. I wonder when the 20% off sale finishes. Careful... that was mentioned on another forum. We're apparently not allowed to do that here... JSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 no Martian in the Samsung box in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 no Martian in the Samsung box in Australia Where did you buy your Samsung from? How much did it cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSmith Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) Where did you buy your Samsung from? How much did it cost? "macro-life" from WP says he purchased one at JB in Sydney CBD, which were marked at $599; https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2487376&p=56#r1106 "Well I got the Samsung player today along with The Martian..." JSmith Edited May 8, 2016 by jsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetherock Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I guess no one here has taken up the $499 offer from Rio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hd-abc123 Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I guess no one here has taken up the $499 offer from Rio? I did. Nothing so far about the player being received by them and ready for shipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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