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Next Generation Jvc's: X5000/7000/9000

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12 hours ago, GrahamAU said:

Yeah only light I have is from projector, no ambient light.  Front half of room (incl walls/ceiling blacked out).  Just wondering how much different velveting the rest of ceiling + back walls will make?

Can't answer that. Do you have the iris closed down to -15 and Auto 2 selected for dynamic iris?

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Hi all,my X7000 also needs the update ,I bought it 2nd hand few months ago,where can I have it done in Melbourne east suburbs?i have no Internet at home,I also asked my dealer when I got the new oppo to unbox it and do update before it was picked up for me ,got it home and 1st thing it tells me when I hook it up is it needs an update [emoji35],picture from oppo to JVC at the moment is shyte!!also my marantz 7702 needs update again !!
Frustrating hobby this is!!
Any help to point me in right direction is appreciated
Cheers Muri

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The best idea would be get the internet at home.

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Don't even have a home phone line,I live off a mobile phone!thanks for the suggestion though ![emoji6]

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its pretty ridiculous that you need to have certain brand serial cables and stuff to update it..  they could have easily made it usb update or even Ethernet.. 

Edited by vick82

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On 15 December 2016 at 11:37 PM, GrahamAU said:

Yeah only light I have is from projector, no ambient light.  Front half of room (incl walls/ceiling blacked out).  Just wondering how much different velveting the rest of ceiling + back walls will make?

Treating the back of the room, especially the back wall will certainly help ANSI contrast.

While using velvet to cover the rear half of the room is the best way to go its likely overkill. Dark or black paint is likely to be just as effective in a practical sense.

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does anyone know if HDR works even if you only use 1080p at 10/12bit.. ?  and did anyone ever find out if the new e-shift actually uses all the information from a 4k input ?

Edited by vick82

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anyone know what it means when deep colour is greyed out ?  when im using 1080p 60 Fps 12 bit shows in the deep colour section.. when putting 4k60 deep colour doesn't show anything.. also it doesn't say HDR anywhere in the information screen either ? i have seen some pictures where it shows HDR and Yes..

the projector goes into 4k60 mode fine though at 4:2:2 12 bit settings on Nvidia..

 

oh and i have done the update and imported BT.2020 profile

 

Edited by vick82

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Going to hdmi.org vick82 ; its probably a limitation of the bandwidth hdmi 2.0a transmitters can transmit ; it cant manage 4k60 4:4:4 ie with HDR but if you scale it back to the native 10 bit uhd bluray puts out @ 4:2:0 with HDR the bandwidth shrinks  :) orange below is what was added above hdmi 1.4 ;

 Q. What are the 4K formats supported by HDMI 2.0?

 

8bit

10bit

12bit

16bit

4K@24

RGB

4:4:4

RGB

4:4:4

RGB

4:4:4

4:2:2

RGB

4:4:4

4K@25

4K@30

4K@50

RGB

4:4:4

4:2:0

4:2:0

4:2:2

4:2:0

4:2:0

4K@60

Quote

does anyone know if HDR works even if you only use 1080p at 10/12bit.. ?

No ; not part of the smpte spec Ide think but there is hope with HLG [ hybrid log gamma] another form of HDR if  tv broadcast transmisions  ever happen ; not much though and will need hdmi2.0b ..

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On 12/31/2016 at 3:28 AM, cwt said:

Going to hdmi.org vick82 ; its probably a limitation of the bandwidth hdmi 2.0a transmitters can transmit ; it cant manage 4k60 4:4:4 ie with HDR but if you scale it back to the native 10 bit uhd bluray puts out @ 4:2:0 with HDR the bandwidth shrinks  :) orange below is what was added above hdmi 1.4 ;

 Q. What are the 4K formats supported by HDMI 2.0?

 

 

8bit

10bit

12bit

16bit

4K@24

RGB

4:4:4

RGB

4:4:4

RGB

4:4:4

4:2:2

RGB

4:4:4

4K@25

4K@30

4K@50

RGB

4:4:4

4:2:0

4:2:0

4:2:2

4:2:0

4:2:0

4K@60

No ; not part of the smpte spec Ide think but there is hope with HLG [ hybrid log gamma] another form of HDR if  tv broadcast transmisions  ever happen ; not much though and will need hdmi2.0b ..

hi.. thanks for the reply.. but i thought that this projector supports 4k60 at 12bit 4:2:2 based on the specs.. it says it supports 4k60 at 4:4:4 but doesn't mention any bits so im assuming that is for 8bit only with either 24p or 60p.. but it should support 12bit 4k60 at 4:2:2

like the projector is running at 4k60p when i have it set the PC to 12bit 4:2:2 but my issue is the information menu has greyed out for the deep colour part

as below on JVC site:

Complies with the latest HDMI/HDCP 2.2 standards to enable full spec 4K signal input

The projectors are capable of receiving full spec 4K signals including 4K60P 4:4:4, 4K60P 4:2:2/36-bit and 4K24P 4:4:4/36-bit as the units comply with the latest HDMI standard with 18 Gbps transmission band width compatibility for reproducing more vivid colours with more precise gradation

Edited by vick82

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so when HDR appears on the menu of this pic that someone posted on another thread... does the HDR part always stay there and it just changes from "yes" to "no" ....or does that only come up when it detects HDR ??

hdr.jpg

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2 hours ago, vick82 said:

hi.. thanks for the reply.. but i thought that this projector supports 4k60 at 12bit 4:2:2 based on the specs.. it says it supports 4k60 at 4:4:4 but doesn't mention any bits so im assuming that is for 8bit only with either 24p or 60p.. but it should support 12bit 4k60 at 4:2:2

like the projector is running at 4k60p when i have it set the PC to 12bit 4:2:2 but my issue is the information menu has greyed out for the deep colour part

Yes indeed 12bit4k/60 @ 4:2;2 is within the hdmi specs as listed in the chart but notice on the bottom line of the chart that 4k/50 or 4k/60 does not include 4:4:4 at 10bit which is the bit depth on the disc .;) Just equate the greyed out HDR with 4:4:4 as its just too much bandwidth  .. WCG 4:4:4 chews up bandwidth as does HDR and when combined.. Hope this makes some sense ; it used to be so simple without hdmi changes every few months:rolleyes:

Drop the bit depth down and as you have seen the HDR and Yes will appear

Quote

so when HDR appears on the menu of this pic that someone posted on another thread... does the HDR part always stay there and it just changes from "yes" to "no" ....or does that only come up when it detects HDR ??

I would think that is permanent and just activates when the edid communication between the source and sink detects that metadata . Other manufacturers are all over the place with this sort of thing like LG which needs a special menu activation I read :aww:

Edited by cwt

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1 hour ago, cwt said:

WCG 4:4:4 chews up bandwidth as does HDR

4:4:4 used more bandwidth but HDR does not. 10bit HDR is the same bandwidth as 10 bit SDR.

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On 30 December 2016 at 6:22 PM, vick82 said:

when im using 1080p 60 Fps 12 bit shows in the deep colour section.. when putting 4k60 deep colour doesn't show anything

Is there a reason you want to use 60Hz? I assume it must be for games because its no use for movies.

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14 minutes ago, Owen said:

4:4:4 used more bandwidth but HDR does not. 10bit HDR is the same bandwidth as 10 bit SDR.

I was waiting for someone who has a good grasp of the bandwidth requirements Owen ; yes makes sense as it just distributes the dynamic range /highlights differently .Will be many moons before uhd bluray sends better than 24p frame rate  thankfully - or not if judder gets you :ermm:

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2 hours ago, cwt said:

Yes indeed 12bit4k/60 @ 4:2;2 is within the hdmi specs as listed in the chart but notice on the bottom line of the chart that 4k/50 or 4k/60 does not include 4:4:4 at 10bit which is the bit depth on the disc .;) Just equate the greyed out HDR with 4:4:4 as its just too much bandwidth  .. WCG 4:4:4 chews up bandwidth as does HDR and when combined.. Hope this makes some sense ; it used to be so simple without hdmi changes every few months:rolleyes:

Drop the bit depth down and as you have seen the HDR and Yes will appear

I would think that is permanent and just activates when the edid communication between the source and sink detects that metadata . Other manufacturers are all over the place with this sort of thing like LG which needs a special menu activation I read :aww:

i dont have greyed out hdr.. it doesnt show HDR at all... i have the deep colour greyed out .. im not tryign to use 4:4:4 just 4:2:2

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48 minutes ago, Owen said:

Is there a reason you want to use 60Hz? I assume it must be for games because its no use for movies.

Hi Owen,

only movies mainly.. but i just want it to be ready in case i need to play anything that is 60Fps and HDR thats all.. but deep colour is greyed and there is no HDR mentioned at all regardless of if i have it set to 4k 24 or 60 ... 

please see pictures... it shows same thing when on 60Hz

 

screen24p.jpg

screen60p.jpg

Edited by vick82

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I'm not sure what triggers the JVC into displaying "Deep Colour" in the menu, but you should not see HDR from a PC because there is no HDR meta data in the video signal.

Forget about 60 fps movies, your JVC will likely be land fill before you see that.

 

Also be aware that projectors are not HDR display devices, they remap gamma back to SDR or close for display.

Edited by Owen

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5 minutes ago, Owen said:

I'm not sure what triggers the JVC into displaying "Deep Colour" in the menu, but you should not see HDR from a PC because there is no HDR meta data in the video signal.

Forget about 60 fps movies, your JVC will likely be land fill before you see that.

either way it isnt showing the 12 bit .. whether i am using 24p or 60p so there must be a reason ?

so a PC cant ever play HDR videos properly ? 

and are you saying that HDR doesnt show up at all on the jvc info screen .. not even with a "No" if your using a PC ?

 

 

Edited by vick82

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I have done some reading.. and HDR does work from PC for some games now.. the game developers have had to use nvdia api to make it work themselves.

Microsoft is supposed to bring out an update soon this year to make HDR native on Windows 10.

Either way my problem with the deep colour not showing up is very annoying and i guess no one on here has an idea of why.

I have played some 4k HDR sample files and when i have put the projector in gamma D and 2020 they look very good... but i dont know if its supposed to look any different.. since currently windows isnt sending meta data i guess im not seeing it how its supposed to look but it looks so good already... will need to compare using a device that can send HDR meta data

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9 hours ago, vick82 said:

 i dont have greyed out hdr.. it doesnt show HDR at all... i have the deep colour greyed out .. im not tryign to use 4:4:4 just 4:2:2

Sorry should have said deep colour ;was referring to your previous post showing HDR present . The jvc menus haven't changed in some respects since Sony produced some xv ycc encoded deep colour rec709 blurays back in the day . That's likely what that sub menu title is for ; interesting read here though dated now ;

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/xvycc-and-deep-color#BkjRMGu3oMZpczph.97

With greatly expanded colour gamuts and bit depths jvc's deep colour xv ycc nomenclature is a bit redundant unless you have an old ''Fifth Element '' remaster or similar :) Ide want 12bit to read from uhd bd since the 7/9000 have got 12bit throughputs ;)

Edited by cwt

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Probably a stupid question.. but are movies being filmed in HDR with HDR capable cameras? I wasn't aware they even had them yet?

Or is this current 'version' of HDR done in post production?

 

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Rich ; relatively recently ide say ; as an example RED cameras are very popular with cinematographers  http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/hdrx-high-dynamic-range-video

films are being regraded to studios specifications ; unfortunately some to 4000nits - sony others to 1000 ;) so bitmapping to a displays capabilities is important to get right . Dolby vision with its variable metadata is intertwined ; as will be hdr10 when we get variable  frame not fixed ..
 

Quote

 

The content creator can specify in metadata how to display the specular highlights. For example they can create a 4,000 nit master and then also create “variants” for displays that can only do 1,000 nits. Apparently this is an improvement over HDR10, which leaves it up to the TV to figure out how to map high brightness content to the display’s capabilities.

 

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

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On 03/01/2017 at 11:23 AM, oztheatre said:

Probably a stupid question.. but are movies being filmed in HDR with HDR capable cameras?

Cinema cameras have slowly increased in dynamic range over the years but there is no special HDR camera nor does there need to be.

Camera operators utilise as much of the cameras dynamic range as they safely can and a little more can be extracted out in post. However the video that is captured is used to make all versions of the movie be they SDR or HDR and ALL the dynamic range can be used for each. The HDR Bluray version mastered for 1000 nits doest contain any more information than the cinema version mastered for 50 nits. The difference is the gamma used and the target luminance of the display.

 

On 03/01/2017 at 11:23 AM, oztheatre said:

Or is this current 'version' of HDR done in post production?

The HDR effect will always be applied in post, thats the only place it can be applied.

Edited by Owen

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