JK71 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hi all, I've just replaced my fried Denon 3311 with a new yamaha RX V3040, and I've ordered some extra matching speaker cables to Bi-Amp my Sonique SAV4's. Couple of questions, I assume I will need to re-run the audio calibration once the extra cables are connected, and secondly, will I still leave the fronts set to "small" and the crossover at 80. My sub is a Sonique 1200 thunder box, if that's relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just one reminder in case you're not aware - take the jumper strips off your speaker terminals before bi-amping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK71 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thanks Chopsus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK71 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 And thanks Quark, I was not aware of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 And thanks Quark, I was not aware of that! It would probably only trip your Yammie into protection mode. However, still some risk of a POP! and smoke if the jumper strips are left on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandS Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just out of curiosity, how would this compare with using those two channels for two front high presence speakers instead of bi amping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiobuff Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Bi-Amp my Sonique SAV4's. To be honest I wouldn't bother. The benefits are practically non existent. You could try and see any benefit for you. I tried no difference for me. http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/biamping.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loser Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 You are that rarest of contributors to this sort of forum, an honest person who doesn't claim to have super senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loser Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So if somebody doesn't agree with you they are a troll? All of these sort of things can make a difference up to a point, but that point is usually a lot lower than the golden ears claim. Thin cable sounds like crap, 16 gauge (I think that's what it's called) dick smith cable sounds better so even more expensive cable must sound better again. I can't hear the difference using the more expensive cable but I am not going to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwd Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) To be honest I wouldn't bother. The benefits are practically non existent. You could try and see any benefit for you. I tried no difference for me. http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/biamping.html I tend to agree but as the cost is minimal with a bit of speaker cable so worth a try. Also worth a try is setting the amp Xover to 120Hz sometimes can smooth out the bass response and transition. Although with largish floorstanders the difference should be next to bugger all. Try it with mains set to large and small see if you can hear it. P.S. I would have expected with floorstanders to be set to large unless the bass was overblown. Edited January 5, 2015 by mwd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmu16 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 BI amping does make a difference to SQ in my set up. Sounds more 'fuller'. Like chops said, its highly dependent on the system and the listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jutta Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Curiously, Audyssey recomend all speakers be set to small at all times, unless no Sub or issues with it. It set all mine to Large apart from the rear 6/7 bookshelf units - but that was XT32 also not the Pro kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK71 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks for all the input guys. So I hooked it up but haven't done a comparison with and without the second amp yet, nor have I had the house to myself to rerun the audio calibration (5 kids!). I only had time to play a few tracks from fleetwood Mac rumors DVDA 5.1 and to me it sounded awesome, but then again I thought my speakers were pretty awesome beforehand. Will do some tests later and see if I can pick the difference. My ears are not as technically trained as a lot of you guys though, so should be interesting. On another note, and I'm not sure if it should have its own thread, but it looks like I can get a Rega DAC for about half price (500ish) possibly as a swap contra deal with the dealer (I make signs for a living). I have a fair bit of FLAC music that I play via my oppo 93. I've done a little bit of research and it would appear that a DAC can give big improvements to sound quality. Would you all agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookies Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 BI amping does make a difference to SQ in my set up. Sounds more 'fuller'. Like chops said, its highly dependent on the system and the listener. More likely to be the result of extra power being fed into the speakers or inductance changes of the circuit by having an additional pair of speaker wire or the way the bi-amp channels are wired on the amplification circuit. If all things were equal, then no, bi-wiring does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookies Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There is definitely an audible difference to the human ear, but the amount of difference depends on your speaker's tweeter and crossover construction, not every speaker responds in the same way to changes in induction and capacitance. So yes, in a way, it does depend on your setup. Before you try to prove me wrong, I would recommend you to hop into a store that sells a Focal Utopia and have a wide selection of speaker wires, make sure you blindfold yourself and keep the volume the same when auditioning different speaker cables, knowing what's connected or even setting the volume a fraction higher or lower can change the way you perceive the audio. The reason I want you to try to Focals is the beryllium tweeters in them are quite sensitive to variations in electrical properties and changing a $10 Selby speaker wire and $300 Chord silvers should yield noticeable changes in sound, whether one is superior to the other is up to you. I highly doubt you have to be a "audiophile" to hear the differences. My wife, who listens to most of her music through her laptop speakers can tell the difference between a Selby and a Chord silver when using the approach from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookies Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Agree - however I only said if all things were equal, then bi-wiring does nothing. Changes in acoustical properties from bi-wiring would be caused by changes to physical properties of the circuit, same effect as changing speaker wires, I can't think of any other reason why bi-wiring would change the sound. Still, IMHO bi-amping is not worth the effort unless there is enough bulge in your wallet to buy components that puts your setup in the 6 figure range. It's expensive and a pain, it will most definitely void your warranty and if you don't know what you're doing, you will most definitely damage your drivers. Personally I would much prefer modding crossovers than to bi-amp and changing speaker cables to bi-wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think in the case of the OP he had the spare channels of amplification going unused so why not give bi amping a go for the cost of a bit of speaker cable. Easily reversible if no improvements found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK71 Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 And the cables I'm doing on a contra so not a big expense either. Any thoughts on the rega dac I mentioned a few posts above? Or is that another can of worms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookies Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Thicker wire is not always better, you'll find your speakers may actually handle better with a thinner wire Reason you need larger wire is for some reason your current wire is bottlenecking, which happens very rarely, for example 3 meters of 18 awg(about 1 mm) cable can handle more than 200W RMS @ 8 ohms, which is more than enough for most domestic situations (unless your room is a stadium and you still need ear bleeding volumes). Dual binding posts are designed to support bi-wiring and to make bi-amping easier. Having a pre-amp that can split the signal (your Integra) is the first step, you still need to remove the crossover circuit inside your speaker and that's not an easy feat. With your current setup, your high frequencies would still be filtered by the capacitors on the crossover and your low frequencies filtered by the inductors on the crossover, when driven by the same amplifier that drives both frequency ranges the same way as it would drive the entire range, there would be virtually nothing to be gained by the wiring method, but only by the changes in the circuit. AV8801 is a pre-amp, the power draw should be insignificant. Perhaps something inadequate about the built-in shielding or faulty resistors? No issues with my Marantz AV7702 but I've only had it for less than a month. Edited January 14, 2015 by Jackula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookies Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) The power amp is an Elektra and the difference was two channels per speaker with the Integra v's one channel with the Marantz as it does no bi-amp (I'd need to use a y splitter and dint see the point). The sound was definitely thinner at reference levels without the bi-amp. I am not about to look, but surely speakers with dual binding posts have two sets of passive crossovers that would not filter much if the correct range of frequencies was being sent to them? As for DACs ... No idea, I use an Oppo 105 for analogue duties, via XLRs for stereo. I'm not disputing you're hearing mate I wonder if it could be because of the increased inductance which tames the high frequencies, and which in turn would make the lower end more prominent and therefore sound fuller. The crossovers would still, at minimum, have a high pass filter for one set of binding posts and a low pass filter for the other set of binding posts. I would imagine they wouldn't filter much, but would still filter unless your integra has a crossover frequency matching those of the passive crossover. Rega DAC, pretty good sounding DAC, for that price it sounds like a bargain. Whether or not it will improve your sound quality, if you're running it through a receiver, you're probably not going to notice much improvement. I use my receiver for movies, I have a separate setup for music. Edited January 14, 2015 by Jackula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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