Rebuild Of My Sony Sxrd Ks70R200A Optical Block

[Pixels]

If you attempt to do this yourself, make sure you have money put aside for the mental rehabilitation you will have to go through afterwards!

Doing this diy means that you will probably be re-assembling the set to view the crosshatch on-screen to see which way you have to move the panel.

This means 'pull apart - make an adjustment - put together - check the result', over and over.

Mind you, I did whittle the turnaround time down to less than 15 minutes. I left off everything that was not needed to get a picture.

To get the OB out, the minimum I could get down to was 15 plugs, 6 pieces of hardware and one screw [holding the ballast].

Then to get the lens/prism assembly out of the OB only required removing the 3 ribbon cables from the pcb, unstick a bit of masking tape I used to hold the pcb in position [kept the strain off the ribbons] and lift the pcb off, then remove the two end screws holding the lens assembly to the base.

Fortunately, these sets have a lens assembly that sits on fixed pins, no rotating eccentric like the earlier/other design.

It's all plastic that the pcb sits on so I could leave the metal pcb case off - no danger of shorts.

The case does ordinarily act as a heatsink for the driver chips, but I managed to get a finger on one chip and they don't get that hot even without the case.

Here are the nightmares:

Getting your good [red or green] panel for blue in perfect convergence, or even just near perfect convergence requires minuscule movements of the panel.

One micron at the panel is probably about 0.1mm or more on the screen. Doing it by hand with on-screen checking - in your dreams!!

IMO there will still be challenges even if you are projecting the crosshatch onto the ceiling so you can do 'while running' adjustment of the panel.

You have to have the screws holding the panel just snug - not tight, so you can actually move the panel. Then just when it looks good, you tighten the screws and that causes the panel to move a few microns this way or that way and out the window goes all your hard work.

Even before you worry about convergence, you may find that the panel is not giving thin sharp crosshatch lines, but out of focus fat lines.

Focus is set by the exact height that the panel sits at on it's 4 mounting points. This is also micron critical.

Flat plane lenses give brilliant geometry over a large image area, but it's at a price - extremely small depth of field.

Focus was a problem that my set had from new. The right side of the screen was pretty good, but as you moved left it progressively got worse until at the far left, computer text was almost impossible to read.

Since tweaking the height of all 3 of my panels, I now have great focus over the whole screen.

I write all this up not necessarily to help others do this - I doubt there's many of these sets still out in the field....well, maybe many literally out in a field , but to share a story of challenge and success with everyone on this forum.

I have much more to write about and many pics to post. But for now I'm basking in the warmth of a properly working sxrd again - and it's bed time!

btw, beware of new panels on ebay, the ones I tried had poor black level and aside, delivered a woeful picture.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Pixels
fix emoticons

[Quark]

Well done!

[MLXXX]

Pixels, forgive my ignorance of your circumstances, but what specifically was wrong with your SXRD that you needed to fix? Was it a worn out filter resulting in all aliens looking green, not just Martians? That is the condition of my set.

If it were possible to replace a filter or two without all of the sort of alignment hassle you have gone through, I could --- possibly -- consider dismantling my 60" SXRD.

[Pixels]

Well done!

Cheers

Excellent read ... Looking forward to more of the story.

Not enough have the b@lls and time to embark on such masocistic journey.

Haha and there's a lot more self inflicted pain and misery in this story

Pixels, forgive my ignorance of your circumstances, but what specifically was wrong with your SXRD that you needed to fix? Was it a worn out filter resulting in all aliens looking green, not just Martians? That is the condition of my set.

If it were possible to replace a filter or two without all of the sort of alignment hassle you have gone through, I could --- possibly -- consider dismantling my 60" SXRD.

Hi ML, a few years ago, mine started to suffer the 'green blob' [actually yellow] which slowly evened out over the whole screen and both you and I were able to adjust our blue gain and bias in the service menu [as per the official thread] to get a very good pic back again.

This didn't last very long for either of us and we both ended up with a yellow picture again.

The problem is certainly the blue panel itself, or should I more correctly say, the panel that is in the blue position, as the panels are technically all the same, even though sony marked them r, g, b.

A panel from another set, from the red or green position, fixes the problem.

Without a doubt, uv from the lamp is what slowly tears the blue panel up. Heat is not the issue. At one stage I had my set running for 30 mins or more and managed to get a finger onto the heatsink of the blue panel and it was barely warm and that was with the cooling fan sitting outside keeping the coffee table cool

Also, the blue panel is closest to the fan. If heat was the problem, the other panels would be falling apart as well.

The filters may degrade after many more years - hard to say, but the total loss of blue is purely the panel itself.

Here's another annoyance. The panel in the green position is the one sticking out the very end of the lens assembly and it's mounting screws are a piece of cake to get to.

The blue panel is a pita. Two of the screws are somewhat shrouded by the iris assembly, though this can be left off while your adjusting.

There's also a thin plastic shroud around the lens barrel that gets in the way a bit, stopping you from getting the screwdriver square on to the screws, though it is thin enough to bend out the way a bit [it will spring back]

You need to use a small diameter screwdriver, like either a mid size driver from a watchmakers set, or perhaps a long reach with a small diameter shaft.

So I'm sorry ML, but there's no easy way out. If you start this, your in for the hard yards. But you could get lucky, you might plonk another panel on and it will only be a smidge out here and there which can be noticed on text or hard edges, but is totally ok for video and you will be basking in cool blue light again!

[MLXXX]

Hi Pixels, I had thought the problem you and I had was that one or more of the filters had aged, but you indicate the actual issue is deterioration of the miniature reflective LCD panel used for blue.

Congratulations on your achievement. And thanks for sharing your technical adventure. (As for me, although I have more time available these days, I really cannot see myself going through the painstaking alignment process you have gone through!)

[Pixels]

Hi ML,

Don't give up on it just yet. A lot of my nightmares were self inflicted through a lack of technique and understanding.

If I download what's left of my brain into this thread, you and others can pick over the gooey remains and have a good head start before you even pull the set apart.

Yes it can be fiddly, but after a few disassembles/reassembles you'll have refined your 'touch' and the reward is well worth it.

I was in awe at just having blue back again - converged or not. It was a shock to the system to see white areas on the screen, instead of endless yellow!

Getting it all apart the first time round is not too bad, quite easy actually, just lots of screws that are all the same size, only a couple that are smaller.

The service manual has good pics to help.

The main chassis just slides out in one piece. There's a couple of cables at the right hand end [as viewed from rear] for the front a/v jacks that can remain disconnected while adjusting.

The metal uprights that brace the top to the base can also remain off while adjusting, there are other brackets that still support the top.

Then there's just the main fan and the plastic box it sits in, the little lamp heat exchanger fan under the ballast and the ballast itself.

Pull a few more screws and unclip the cover over the OB which can stay off while adjusting.

Pull a couple more screws from the front which are holding the OB in its cradle - screws can be left out while adjusting.

Pull the lamp back just far enough to disengage it from the OB housing and viola, you have the OB in your hands. Lift up a bit as you slide it back to help protect the sponge rubber around the lamp neck end of the OB.

Take the OB to the 'OB dismantle area' [kitchen table ]

Remove a piece of plastic off the top [light shield?]

Unclip the iris cable out of it's socket on the pcb [lower right edge]

Remove 5 small machine screws [4 at cable edge, one at other end top middle] and pry the metal box top off. [hint - leave all the cables connected to the pcb]

Check for any loose heatsink pads that are still sitting on top of the driver ic's and pop them onto the heatsink blocks on the underside of the metal case top.

Unclip the 3 panel ribbon cables and gently slide them out of the connectors. [hint - first make note of how far they are engaged in the connector so you can be sure of correct engagement when you reassemble]

Remove the plastic support from around each ribbon cable [they unclip out of the metal and slide off the cable]

Remove 4 machine screws holding the pcb in the lower metal box and remove the pcb.

Remove 3 long self tap screws that hold the metal box base to the plastic OB housing.

Remove 2 self tap screws, one either side near the small end of the lens, that each hold a metal shield and that end of the metal lens base to the OB base.

Remove 2 self tap screws at the large end of the lens and your free to gently lift the lens/prism assembly out of the OB.

It's a fairly close fit but doesn't matter if you bump a bit - nothing will get damaged.

On reassembly I only sit the lens back on it's guides with the two outer end screws holding it down, then sit the pcb back on top with a bit of masking tape to hold it down at the opposite end from the cables and clip the ribbons back in to the connectors.

Many pics of all this to come but have to resize, add text and upload to web space first.

Here's one pic for now, it's of my cooked blue panel next to a good panel, you can see the red tinge in the cooked panel.

The red tinge is not in itself the problem, it's just a good indicator of a panel thats been hammered with uv.

Another critical hint while I think of it:
Dust particles on the outer glass filter surface of the panel must be removed before mounting the panel. This surface must be scrupulously clean as it's too close to the focal plane and dust particles will not only achieve enough focus to show on the screen [very blurry though], they will cause a halo of light dispersion resulting in hexagonal 'hotspots' on the screen, though they're faint enough to only show on black signal level.
All other surfaces don't matter, but of course, the less the better.

But don't despair if you spot one that you missed, this happened to me, not all is lost, you still have one roll of the dice left.
You can pull back the rubber boot dust seal around the panel in one spot and blast some compressed air into the gap.
This worked a treat for me. I peeled the boot back out a bit with a small flat screwdriver and held it open just a bit with my thumbnail - a bit fiddly, but you'll get there.

btw ML, just figured out your username - 1080 - very clever

Edited October 1, 2014 by Pixels

[MLXXX]

I was in awe at just having blue back again - converged or not. It was a shock to the system to see white areas on the screen, instead of endless yellow!

I can imagine.

btw ML, just figured out your username - 1080 - very clever

Perhaps with the advent of 4k sets I should update my username to MMCLX

I've just watched the following youtube video. The guy seems to be a professional technician. A very slick presentation:

I see he rigged up an arrangement for projecting onto the ceiling. I think that is the only way I could contemplate undertaking this to completion, but even so it would be a real pain. Perhaps if someone else wants to do this with a compatible SXRD (mine is the 60" Australian set) I could provide a Red or Green subpanel, i.e. I could disassemble mine and fish out the good subpanels. [better still, I could supply the whole set intact and leave the disassembly to someone keen.]

Edited October 2, 2014 by MLXXX

[Owen]

Pixels, great work mate. Glad to see such dedication and persiverance.

I was fortunate to have my 70" professionally repaired under extended warranty so haven't had to go down this path, so my hats off to you.

By the time my SXRD fails again it will be so old I will let it go. I have a 65" Pana Plasma in storage for when that day arrives.

[Pixels]

BTW Panel 2 (unburnt) is physically different on the LHS with no tabs in the corners? Does this mean a later/better panel?

I knew this question would come up sooner or later and force me to re-visit a dark and disturbing corner of my mind.

Does it mean 'later' - possibly...does it mean 'better'.....read on.

The 'good' panel in the pic is one of three new panels that I bought at different times of ebay [same seller who was actually quite helpful]

The one in the pic was the first one, it looked great, was definitely new - no dimples on the ribbon cable.

I fitted it to the blue position and the first thing I noticed after recovering from the shock of seeing blue on my screen again, was that it seemed brighter, though black level had a blue cast to it as well. 'No problem' I thought, I can adjust to get that right and carried on with convergence and focus, though at this early stage I had no idea what caused focus to be wrong.

After many disassembles and reassembles trying to work out how to fix focus and how best to get convergence, I suddenly lost the green panel. It was no longer giving any image and after about 15 secs would start to increase in brightness over the whole screen, causing me to hastily switch off for fear of something going into meltdown!

I pulled apart, check connections, put back together a number of times but there seemed to be no getting green back, which was annoying as it was the one panel that had good focus, red and blue were my left side focus nightmare.

'No problem' I thought, I can turn this to advantage and prove whether focus is panel dependent or position dependent.

I screwed the new panel into the green position, put another used blue panel [another story regarding that panel] into the blue position and viola, the new panel I had bought for the blue position, now had great focus in the green position.

Having proven that focus is something to do with how the panel sits on the frame mounts, I tested the theory further by backing out the 4 screws holding the new 'green' panel down, by just 1/4 of a turn and instantly hit more paydirt.

The focus had gone from thin green lines over the whole screen, to fat lines over the whole screen, and I mean 'fat'!, to the point that they were breaking into double tram lines!!

Given that the thread pitch on the screws is a mere 0.35mm, 1/4 of this is a little under 0.1mm or .004".

Even just backing them out 1/8 of a turn had a drastic effect on focus - panel height is critical!

But I was now 1 panel short, I wasn't happy with a used blue panel in the blue position - or any position, so back to ebay and get another new one.

Fitted that one up to the blue position and noticed that it was rather bright as well and that my black level was now a definite shade of cyan - red flags were waving!

I mentioned this 'brightness' to the seller and he did respond with some re-assurance so I decided to change out the red as well and got a 3rd panel - nervously - the red flags were really worrying me by now!

Having solved the focus problem [another horror story there though!], I bravely soldiered on, had good, thin, well focused test pattern lines and then spent weeks - I mean weeks tweaking the convergence to near perfection.

I feed it a video signal and my jaw hit the ground - the picture was absolute garbage!!

All that effort - all that effort - all for nada.... nothing!

It looked like a sad old washed out, low on emission crt!

I couldn't correct the poor black level, but worse was the image quality, it's hard to describe, like sort of like in-focus but out of focus c%#&p!!

The below pic shows what computer text had degraded to. I had put pieces of card into the OB to block of the red and blue light so I could get a comparison of green only.

This pic demonstrates the excessive black level light coming from the green panel.

I held a piece of white card to the lens, the difference is extraordinary.

And this pic shows the on-screen effect of the poor black level.

What the hell is wrong with these panels, I have no idea. Compatibility? possible, but doubtful, they're marked J(GZ] etc.

Cheap copies? very doubtful - too much effort for too little reward. Factory seconds? maybe

Does this rabbit hole from hell go any deeper - you bet - stay tuned for the next episode!

[Pixels]

Pixels, great work mate. Glad to see such dedication and persiverance.

I was fortunate to have my 70" professionally repaired under extended warranty so haven't had to go down this path, so my hats off to you.

By the time my SXRD fails again it will be so old I will let it go. I have a 65" Pana Plasma in storage for when that day arrives.

Hi Owen, thanks for the comment

I tell you what, the roadside verge came dangerously close at times!!

But I just can't let things like this beat me! I have to prove I'm smarter than a Sony sxrd!!

[Pixels]

Perhaps with the advent of 4k sets I should update my username to MMCLX

Yes, I had watched that vid some time ago, quite well done.

Were he says 'the convergence will be close enough for video' is quite correct, but that was not nearly good enough for me.

Getting the lines to at least overlap a bit, is not too hard to achieve. Getting the lines to were there is at worst, only a slight fringe of red, green or blue showing takes a bit more patience.

[Pixels]

Hold everything! There's yet another issue.

I was cutting the set some slack because of light blasting everywhere while covers were left off, but after some careful scrutiny the picture is hazy looking and whites are crushed.

It has nowhere near the 'pop' that it had when new. Resolution and black level are great, but the staggering peak white they are normally capable of has been lost.

The lamp is only a few hundred hrs old and is a genuine philips uhp.

I think this is cooked filter up near the lamp. More investigation needed.

[Pixels]

Oh yeah, hit paydirt right away with this one. It's not the filter closest to the lamp which is a thin piece of glass, not doubt a uv filter which has a reddish hue anyway, but further along just in front of a lens as pictured. It's plastic and very crazed and cooked, even the lens has a smoky haze over that side facing the plastic.

[Pixels]

WOWWW, my tv has that explosive white again!!!

I just simply cleaned the cooked plastic smear off the lens with some ipa, left the burnt plastic piece out along with the metal graticule and wowww!! Now that's 'POP'!

Leaving that plastic piece and graticule out seems to have had zero effect on the evenness of illumination, in fact I can't see any difference at all even on full screen rgb via test pattern.

I think that at worst, I might be still missing a few percent of peak white because of the discolored uv filter.

It's certainly a tough life for things near the lamp, even the black plastic around the uv filter is turning white and starting to break down into a fine powder!

[MLXXX]

Pixels, it seems it's sometimes tragedy, sometimes triumph. Or, in the words of the new (the 12th) Doctor Who, Peter Capaldi, "It's a roller coaster ride with you!".

[Owen]

How many hours has that optical block accrued and what lamp power has been used over most of its life, high or low?

Edited October 4, 2014 by Owen

[Pixels]

Pixels, it seems it's sometimes tragedy, sometimes triumph. Or, in the words of the new (the 12th) Doctor Who, Peter Capaldi, "It's a roller coaster ride with you!".

Sometimes tragedy was well and truly in the lead!

How many hours has that optical block accrued and what lamp power has been used over most of its life, high or low?

Total hours is 18,588. I think the lamp has been mainly high, if not always high.

Here's some pics with text of how to get to these filters, pretty easy.

I had Balcatta glass cut me a piece of 2mm plain glass to take the place of the burnt optical [condenser, diffuser?]

I'm considering getting a 82mm uv camera filter, dremel the frame of it and have balcatta glass cut it to size for me.

Nobodys got 1mm glass in any shape or form and in fact, the original filter measures only 0.7mm thick.

I have run the set with the new 2mm glass in place and the front uv filter left out - no noticeable difference on screen.

When pulling the cover off the filters, it takes a bit of wriggling and effort, then it pops and then slides off easy.

Same when replacing, it slides most of the way easy then needs a small press to pop it back flush.

More in next post -

[Pixels]

[Pixels]

Forgot to add that imo the use of a heat exchanger for the lamp cooling is a sucky idea + there is no air flow over these initial filters, they're just hung out to dry!!

Edited October 4, 2014 by Pixels

[Pixels]

Still not out of the woods!

After getting peak white a lot better, it was painfully obvious that I had good grey down the middle, but then blending to magenta around the periphery. Mainly left, some right, very little at top and bottom around center.

Also mid grey was the worst affected, near peak whites and blacks seemed ok.

Tried another panel in green position [yep - sacrificed convergence] but no difference.

I decided it had to be more filter damage further on from the lamp. Pulled it all apart again and sure enough I could see a dichoric in the red/green path with a smoky haze on the surface of one side.

It also seemed to have a tacky surface on both sides, couldn't wipe a tissue over it.

Dipped the tissue in ipa and wipe all the muck off, then used a lint free cloth to clean it to a glossy, haze free finish.

This didn't entirely fix the problem, but it was quite an improvement.

I could also see a haze on the first splitter and it will get a cleaning as well. Will be trickier as it appears to be an assembly of two dichorics at right angles to each other.

It's thin glass - tread carefully.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Pixels

[MLXXX]

Pixels, I wish you well in this last stage of restoring your set. You seem to be in the home stretch.

I make a few miscellaneous comments below about my own set.

Total hours is 18,588. I think the lamp has been mainly high, if not always high.

Tonight in the Panel Service part of the service menu at item 21 Timer, sub-item 2 I saw "OPERAT" was showing the figure 19056. Up until a few months ago I used my SXRD extensively as a computer monitor, adding considerably to the hours of use.

After the first hundred hours or so of use in 2007, I thereafter ran the set with the Power Saving option on, except for special occasions. I did this to help extend the life of the set, not to save electricity! I had read somewhere that full lamp power could be detrimental. (In the early years of use of the set I always found the colour noticeably better for my vision at the higher power setting. So a new Blu-ray disc would be viewed with Power Saving off.)

This evening out of interest I measured the mains power consumption of my 60" SXRD displaying an extended computer desktop wallpaper. It was 191W with Power Saver on and 207W with Power Saver off. Of course the screen did get brighter with Power Saver set to off. (Switching the set off with the remote, the mains consumption fell to 60W, and then after a few minutes to 0.2W.)

Some months ago when I inserted a new lamp (the 3rd lamp for this set) I was surprised that the brightness was still not all that high. At the time this made me think it was not just the blue part of the light engine that had deteriorated. It seems to me that my set's light engine probably contains some impaired filters/diffusers.

I can really only use my set now for low quality video tasks such as displaying a spreadsheet, or security camera video. The yellow-green tinge has become very marked indeed. (However at least the discolouration is pretty much uniform across the screen.)

Edited October 7, 2014 by MLXXX

[Owen]

Wow, thats a lot of hours guys, at what hours did your OB's start to fail?

My first OB started to fail (yellow blob) at about 4000 hours and was replaced/repaired at 4500, it had always been run in power saving mode and even that was way too bright for me.

The current OB now has about 4000 hours on it and its working fine. Total hours on the set is about 9000 and its still on the original lamp, more than double the lamps designed life.

I removed the neutral density filter that I had placed on the lens to cut the light output in half when the OB was replaced as the lamp had lost enough output buy that stage to not need it.

Even with 9000 hours up the lamp is still bright enough for my use in power saving mode and I expect the OB should last longer with the much reduced light input unless the lamps UV output does not reduce in line with visible light output.

[MLXXX]

To answer Owen's query, tinges on my 60" SXRD set have come and gone. Sporadic tinges started in the first year of ownership at relatively low lamp hours:

Since posting the above, two months ago, I've found that the condition has worsened. The green tinge in the middle and the purple or red tinges above and below persist for many hours, throughout an entire evening's viewing.

Also, the tinges are now apparent even with ordinary video material, albeit only in parts that are otherwise featureless.

There can be a big difference between a flaw being observable to an owner, and the owner proceeding to the next step of getting the set fixed.

As readers of my posts will know, I 'observe' many 'flaws'.

I've had my 60" set for 7 months. I may wait another couple of months. If the intensity of the tinges becomes even more pronounced by then, I will feel confident in dealing with Sony in that the problem by then will be serious enough as to be unmistakeable.

I now have 1307 lamp operating hours, according to the service menu.

Kendrew, I feel a mixture of relief and guilt:

Relief

About a week ago after I'd had the set off for 48 hours and we had had a fair amount of rain (I don't know whether either of these factors was relevant), I noticed that the discolouration of my 60" SXRD was no longer as intrusive when watching video. It had reduced to about two-thirds of its former severity.

I've just checked my set tonight, and the green blob that was in the middle of the screen and very noticeable is currently hardly detectable at all, even when displaying a grey scale test pattern.

The discolouration is curently undetectable -- to my eyes -- when watching video material.

This week the set hasn't had too much use either.

Guilt

I know others have had persistent and severe screen impurity issues.

My 60" set is currently showing 5852 lamp hours.

In mid-2012, after 5 and a half years of ownership, and an estimated 13,000 hours of use, I was able to report that tinges had mostly subsided:

My own set is now giving very pleasing colour. I've always liked the colour of the SXRD rear-pro picture when working well. It does give a 'wow' factor.

Having said that, there were slightly visible swirls of a mustard colour, in particular scenes, so the set is not completely rehabilitated.

In 2013 there was marked deterioration and now in 2014 the set is in very poor condition as can be seen in the photo below:

...

Here is a picture taken earlier today, which reveals how strong the green cast is:

In 2013, the picture deteriorated permanently and now in 2014 it is quite poor:

[A higher resolution version can be obtained here.] Part of a page from our forum appears on the right. The background for the large white letters 'AV Forum' should be blue, but appears as a blue-green. And expanses of white have a yellow tinge.

On the left is part of a frame from the introduction to the Big Bang Theory. Again, green is unduly prominent.

[Pixels]

Can't remember exact hours, but mine ran fine for a few years, maybe at 10,000 hrs I started to notice a yellow cast around the periphery, then over the next several months drifted to be a blob in the middle, then a few months more became fairly even over the entire screen.

That's when adjustments to blue gain/bias in the service menu were tried to push blue a bit harder - worked for a while [months] but then the set was in it's final death throws and blue quit completely.

I'm really up against it here with this magenta/green problem. No amount of cleaning of lenses/ filters/dichorics has really made any difference.

I'm not sure who/what to pick on given that green is paired with red.

Red and blue [magenta] are on completely separate paths and appear to be in good balance with each other.

The first x dichoric splits off blue and reflects yellow, the next dichoric splits red and green from the yellow. soooo.....damn!!

Might try blocking green to check if magenta has an even luminosity across the screen.

Another lamp doesn't make any difference.

Maybe my original green panel does have a problem and the spare I tried also has a problem as it was a still working but used blue panel with a bit of a sunburnt look to it.

Red is still on the original red panel and blue is on a good red panel. I have another red on it's way, should be here in a couple of weeks.

[Pixels]

Ok, the plot thickens regarding my magenta/green issue.

I blocked green so as to have only magenta on the screen and after careful examination using a grey scale step card I have decided that magenta is perfectly even at all luminous levels over the whole screen.

I also blocked red to test cyan [green/blue] and sure enough, green was still falling off around the outer compared to blue.

This puts the green panel in the firing line, as I can't believe that there can be a problem with any filter that would affect green only and not upset the red/blue balance as well.

If the problem is solved by the red panel I'm waiting on, then even green panels need to be avoided.

So....sit and wait for red panel.....sitting.......waiting.......waiting......