Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
betty boop

Sony Vpl-500Es First 4K Projector With Hdmi V2.0

Recommended Posts

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-vplvw500es-201309053300.htm

Sony Outs VPL-VW500ES, World’s First 4K Projector With HDMI 2.0

By Vincent Teoh 5 September 2013, 2:25 pm BST

One of the biggest stories leading on from yesterday’s official announcement of the new HDMI 2.0 came from Sony who unveiled the world’s first 4K projector with support for the new standard.

sony-vplvw500es.jpg

The Sony VPL-VW500ES, which will go on sale sometime this October, is said to be a cheaper and more accessible model than the Japanese manufacturer’s previous world-first 4K projector the VPL-VW1000ES. This latest device will sit alongside its larger cousin in Sony’s 4K projector line-up, featuring the same super-high 4096 x 2160 resolution plus HDMI 2.0 connectivity, which means it’ll be capable of outputting Ultra HD video at a frame rate of 60fps.

Presuming we find a way to get more 4K media soon, Sony’s VW500ES could well become the first device capable of screening 4K Blu-rays and other physical media to hit the stores.

Sony’s projector is a nifty little device even without the HDMI 2.0 support though. One of its notable features is the Reality Creation super-resolution 4K upscaler that allows it to enhance and deliver extra detail in standard 1080p Full HD content, creating a finer, sharper image than any other projectors are capable of. This enhanced content won’t be able to compare with the super-fine detail of genuine 4K, but as far as your existing Blu-ray collection goes its going to look a damn sight better than it ever did before.

The VW500 projector also comes with a further upscaling algorithm that was first used with Sony’s “Mastered in 4K” Blu-ray collection – movies that do away with the extras in favour of delivering the best quality picture that’s possible to get out of Full HD.

Specs-wise, it’s interesting to see how the VPLVW500ES compares with the top-end VPL-VW1000ES. The newer projector is noticeably smaller than the VW1000, with a smaller chassis size and more compact design, while its quoted contrast is also much lower at 200,000:1 vs. the 1,000,000:1 specs on the VPL-VW1000ES. The VPL-VW500ES also has a narrower range of colours, with no Adobe RGB or DCI support.

Sony didn’t announce a price tag for the VPL-VW500ES yesterday, but our man at IFA 2013 was informed that it’s likely to be in the “affordable” range, priced at something like £8,500 compared to the VPL-VW1000ES’s £17,000 retail price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks promising. Will be interested to see how bright it is - 4K will warrant a decent sized screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pricing not been announced as yet. but being a first ever expect it to be pricey.

in my opinion they would have been better off giving the big daddy 1000es flagship a hdmi v2 upgrade so it was the real deal. not that they might not do that and hope they do or its going to really P off current 1000es owners...if there are any..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name=:)' timestamp='1378430163' post='1912016]

pricing not been announced as yet. but being a first ever expect it to be pricey.

in my opinion they would have been better off giving the big daddy 1000es flagship a hdmi v2 upgrade so it was the real deal. not that they might not do that and hope they do or its going to really P off current 1000es owners...if there are any..

Sony have announced an upgrade kit will be available for 1000es owners - priced at US$2,500. This includes HDMI 2.0 upgrade and other processing upgrades that are going to be on the new 1100es. Not sure how the upgrade will work in Aus yet, or what the price here will be, but in the US a Sony tech comes out to your house to do it - unless you can easily get the unit to a dealer.

Cheers

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


It was also discussed that the cost is actually 3k, so 2.5k is a discount. You also get the 4k HD media player and a new bulb so the projector becomes as new again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sony have announced an upgrade kit will be available for 1000es owners - priced at US$2,500. This includes HDMI 2.0 upgrade and other processing upgrades that are going to be on the new 1100es. Not sure how the upgrade will work in Aus yet, or what the price here will be, but in the US a Sony tech comes out to your house to do it - unless you can easily get the unit to a dealer.

Cheers

John

good to hear. I hope sony does the same locally here as well :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a way, I'm glad that our proposed HT room won't be ready to "populate" for 2 years. So many goodies on the horizon :logik:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh yeah be an interesting next few years :)

no doubt the initial stuff will be on bleeding edge but am sure in a couple of years probably settled down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


We have laws against false or misleading advertising in Oz, so I'm sure Sony wont be silly enough to advertise that upscaling to 4K improves image detail as thats simple impossible.

At a 3 metre viewing distance any screen bigger than about 70" befits from true 4K, problem is that 4K pixels dont provide 4k detail, even in a perfect world.

Hollywood will have to lift its production standards very significantly to take full advantage of 4k, most titles are not significantly limited by 2k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How it is false advertising? It can do 4k over HDMI 1.4 u to 30fps

And have you seen the 1000ES? I've compared previous Sony ES projectors before this and I've always preferred the JVC RS60 and its successors for 2D. But the 1000ES was the one that won me over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have laws against false or misleading advertising in Oz, so I'm sure Sony wont be silly enough to advertise that upscaling to 4K improves image detail as thats simple impossible.

At a 3 metre viewing distance any screen bigger than about 70" befits from true 4K, problem is that 4K pixels dont provide 4k detail, even in a perfect world.

Hollywood will have to lift its production standards very significantly to take full advantage of 4k, most titles are not significantly limited by 2k.

I remember when everyone was saying that 720p upscaled to 1080p would make no difference and the human eye couldn't see an improvement. 720p upscaled to 1080p with a decent upscaler looks MUCH better than 720p!

If you think that 1080p upscaled to 4k doesnt look any better then I can tell you that you are DEAD WRONG! unless you are talking about a 42" tv in the corner of the room

Edited by gbickle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats false is claiming that upscaling to 4K increases detail, thats akin to creating something from nothing and is just not possible.

Upscaling is my hobby, I have been using special upscaling algorithms to clean up and sharpen video for over 10 years. Back then it was 768x576 DVD to 2304x1728, these days its 1920x1080 Bluray to 5760x3240 (close to 6K). I find my method superior to the systems employed by projector manufacturers or the Darbee processor, and a 4K display is not required to appreciate the improved image quality.

Adding more pixels to the display only makes the image smoother, never more detailed, and then only if you are sitting close enough to see the pixel structure of a 2K projector of the same technology.

Unless you have high grade 4K source a real 4K projector is no more useful than JVC' E-shift pixel doubling. And unless you sit close enough to see the pixel structure of a normal 2K LCoS projector E-Shift and 4K is a waste of money for 2k source. The image processing you apply to the video signal makes FAR more difference then extra pixels on the display ever could.

Edited by Owen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Call it what you like but even with 1080p stuff, the Sony does produce a stunning, detailed 2D picture.. better than the JVC flagship and that was my reference over Sony's for the longest time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you view the Sony with its "Reality Creation" sharpening system on or off? With it on what you see is dominated by the effect of the sharpening system on the image, you dont need a 4K projector to get that look.

Its pretty easy to make just about any projector too sharp and exaggerate details unnaturally, some people seem to like that look while others dont. Sony's Reality Creation is quite aggressive and not very clever, you can do better with external processing for 2k source without the expense of a 4k projector.

Unless visible pixel structure is a problem at your seen size - viewing distance, worry about 4K projectors when 4K source is abundant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recon its important that people understand that a 4K projector will not give them a sharper or more detailed picture with 1920x1080 source.

Maybe you think it would be better for them to be sucked in by BS advertising and hype?

From post 1.

"One of its notable features is the Reality Creation super-resolution 4K upscaler that allows it to enhance and deliver extra detail in standard 1080p Full HD content, creating a finer, sharper image than any other projectors are capable of. This enhanced content won’t be able to compare with the super-fine detail of genuine 4K, but as far as your existing Blu-ray collection goes its going to look a damn sight better than it ever did before.

The VW500 projector also comes with a further upscaling algorithm that was first used with Sony’s “Mastered in 4K” Blu-ray collection – movies that do away with the extras in favour of delivering the best quality picture that’s possible to get out of Full HD."

Edited by Owen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So once again an announcement about a new PJ gets turned into an Owen soapbox and propaganda thread, seriously Owen ffs............

this forum has gone to the dogs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


FWIW the Reality Engine is also in Sony's FullHD projectors but doesn't accomplish that same effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would hope most people would be aware that the sharpest most detailed image would be produced by a source displayed at it's native resolution and viewed from the appropriate distanced based on ones visual acuity.

Once 4K native sources are available......this projector will shine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW the Reality Engine is also in Sony's FullHD projectors but doesn't accomplish that same effect.

And there are better systems then any version of Sonys "Reality Creation" IMHO.

Picture enhancement can be applied to any projector. If you want to evaluate the projectors native performance rather then its picture enhancement feature turn reality creation off.

We went though a similar issue when JVC released E-Shift. It was claimed E-Shift made the image sharper, and it did. Not because of the extra pixels but simply because of extra electronic sharpening that was applied when E-Shift was engaged. The same or better sharpening can be applied to a normal 1080 projector by external devices but JVC would rather people not know that as they want people to pay extra for an E-Shift model.

Edited by Owen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Owen, the PJ is not even released so how can your comments be objective, so until then your comments are no different from the advertising BS and hype............

I dont need to see the new Sony or any display to know that upscaling can NEVER increase detail. All that can ever be done is enhance what detail does exist in the source and we dont need more pixels to do that.

Digital video has by design virtually zero detail at the single pixel level as MTF is down to less than 10%.

Perceived image sharpness has bugger all to do with pixels and everything to do with MTF. Sharpening systems manipulate MTF in various ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would hope most people would be aware that the sharpest most detailed image would be produced by a source displayed at it's native resolution and viewed from the appropriate distanced based on ones visual acuity.

Its easy to improve on 1:1 mapped performance. I'll take a cleverly scaled and processed image over native 1:1 every time. Been doing it for over 10 years.

Edited by Owen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The JVC that has eshift also has other enhancements. That said I am still happy with my RS60.

But you missed the point about Reality Creation I was making. If as you suggested, it is the RC processing that is making the Sony 4K look better than the JVC why does it not do the same for Sony's 1080p model (which as I've mentioned looks less impressive than JVC)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The top image is a closeup of the vw1000 with the reality creation turned off. The bottom picture is with reality creation turned on and fully utilizing Sony's 1080p to 2160p upscaling algorithm. Seems fair to me that they can claim there is more detail in their 1080p to 2160p upscaled image?

This VW500 looks very interesting. The automatic calibration system using sensors on the front of the projector is supposed to be very accurate according to the engineers (resulting in a Delta-E of less than 3). This would be great for beginners who could calibrate projector simply using the sensors every few hundred hours resulting in perfect colours for the life of the bulb!

Sony_VW1000_Preview_clip_image042.jpg

Sony_VW1000_Preview_clip_image043.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The top image is a closeup of the vw1000 with the reality creation turned off. The bottom picture is with reality creation turned on and fully utilizing Sony's 1080p to 2160p upscaling algorithm. Seems fair to me that they can claim there is more detail in their 1080p to 2160p upscaled image?

Thanks gbickle. Always good to have actual frames to examine!

Certainly the processed frame has different brightness and contrast. And it looks sharper. A lot of people might like this look.

There is a bit of edge enhancement visible of the small narrow doorway (or window) on the left. The left-hand side and curved top of the doorway show a thin white border. The original image shows such a border very faintly and I suggest would itself suffer from mild oversharpening or edge enhancement. It is very likely in my opinion that the thin white border is false detail: an exaggeration of the original false enhancement.

The red in the flag looks smooth in the original and a bit lumpy in the processed version. There is therefore extra "detail" in the red part of the flag, in the processed frame, but I suspect that it would be false detail, a processing artefact. Flags don't normally look lumpy or splotchy!

Can anyone identify any new detail that appears not to be a processing artefact?

Edited by MLXXX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both the images are upscaled to 2160p, one is heavily sharpened (quite overdone IMHO) and the other is not. The upscaling on its own (top picture) didn't make the image sharper or apparently more detailed now did it, the sharpening system did. Sharpening native 1080 video has a very similar effect, although it tends to look harsher used the same sharpening system. Upscaling before sharpening is quite beneficial, it looks less harsh and more natural, thats one reason the VW1000 looks better then the VW50, there are other improvements as well, like a better lens.

I upscale Bluray to 3240p using an upscaling algorithm that lifts MTF, the video is then down scaled to 1080p for output to the projector. The result is significantly cleaner, clearer, sharper and apparently more detailed picture than sharpening 1080 video directly by conventional means, and the common negative side effects of normal sharpening like false or double edges are avoided.

You dont need a 2160 display to take advantage of this system as a 1080 display always has more resolution then the video. Going to a 2160 display gives you a smoother image with no visible pixel structure if you sit very close, but if you can see the pixel structure of an 1080 LCoS projector you are way too close for a sharp picture with any 1080p source, upscaled or not.

With the right processing you can get the look you want without a 4k projector. Buy the 4k unit when there is plenty of real 4k source to view on it.

When 4k source does become available it will look better than Bluray on existing 1080p projectors, so you will get some benefit even without a 4k projector.

Its not about the pixels, its what you do with them that matters.

Edited by Owen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...