alanh Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Prime is replacing its SD video server for and HD version "as we will be offering a wide range of HD services in the near future which may also include more HD channels." Macquarie Southern Cross. "We have added 28 channels of independent HD services to our existing 35 channel SD facility in Canberra. Remember the server plays different programs streams to different areas so that the appropriate ads can be inserted." WIN Television Increases News Production Capability With Grass Valley Ignite HD Automated Production Systems 2007. WIN Television has an unequalled commitment to local news for regional Australia and the nation's capital with WIN News' 24 news bureaus located throughout Australia, producing a total of 19 individual 30-minute bulletins of local news, weather, sports and finance updates through seven regional control rooms. WIN News uses seven regional control rooms to produce a total of 19 regional specific 30-minute news bulletins. Those regional control rooms include Wollongong NSW producing bulletins for four regions; Rockhampton QLD producing bulletins for three regions; Toowoomba QLD producing bulletins for two regions; Canberra ACT producing bulletins for one region; Ballarat VIC producing bulletins for six regions; Hobart TAS producing bulletins for one region; and Mt. Gambier SA producing bulletins for two regions. WIN Television reaches more than 5.2 million viewers across six states of Australia and the nation's capital through its 24 wholly owned and operated television stations. Its transmissions span the largest geographical area in the world, from Cairns to Hobart, South Australia and all of Western Australia from Albany to Kununnurra. All of the signals from regional studios as well as STW, Perth, and NWS Adelaide are all backhaulled to Media Hub, Ingleburn for distribution. Not mentioned is that the there is now no regional news for WIN WA. Alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWulf Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Alan Could you provide the sources for your quotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidefdave Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Mt. Gambier SA producing bulletins for two regions. WIN also scrapped the SA regional bulletins a few weeks ago. http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/02/18/3692922.htm D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ignore the turd, and yes turd is an appropriate description for him. If the mods don't like me referring to him as a turd perhaps it's about time they finally do something about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForMoe Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) My attempt to find them turned up case studies with no dates. In the HTML page source you get 2011 dated images, and the closest news articles are also 2011, so they are probably in reference to the expansion of equipment needed to support 7Mate and One HD - the then 'more HD channels'. The Mt Gambier news was recently axed totally, but previous to that was moved to a single bulletin and then moved to be read in Adelaide. The stray '2007' in that first line would suggest this is related to their move to widescreen news, not HD broadcasting (in 2007 their bulletins were all still broadcast in 4:3). http://www.grassvalley.com/news/press/releases/view/498-win-television-increases-news-production-capability-with-grass-valley-ignite-hd-automated-production-systems "Macquarie Southern Cross" haven't been called that in years, again indicating the age of this content. Appropriate thread title: Networks geared up for more HD between 2 and 6 years ago! Edited March 18, 2013 by GoForMoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) This information is new and has come from an industry trade magazine which is not available to the general public which is why I have not given links. The only one which is old and I have mentioned the date was the WIN info. Alanh Edited March 18, 2013 by alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWulf Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Umm - not everyone here is general public and many probably have access to the trade magazine, or the networks directly. It wouldn't do any harm to support your quotes by stating the magazine and maybe even editions and pages. I can't see how that would compromise anyone and would allow those interested to do their own research on the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtaste Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) The press release about Prime is from 2009. http://magnasys.tv/index.php/prime-media-group-australia/ http://if.com.au/2009/04/28/article/BOCINOLHXR.html And the press release about Southern Cross is from 2008. http://m.broadcastengineering.com/news/southern-cross-media-buys-seachange-servers-new-hd-platform Edited March 18, 2013 by newtaste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Malich Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Umm - not everyone here is general public and many probably have access to the trade magazine, or the networks directly. It wouldn't do any harm to support your quotes by stating the magazine and maybe even editions and pages. I can't see how that would compromise anyone and would allow those interested to do their own research on the issues. Alan likes people to bathe in the mystery of his having "special sources", and leave them with the impression that he's so important he has access to information other people can't have. The reality is he rarely reveals his alleged sources - and when he does (or, as in this case, investigation turns them up), they turn out to be less than impressive. Although he often claims otherwise, and he has been invited many times to reveal these mysterious "sources" (because, as you say, many of us have access to trade magazines, conference proceedings, journal articles, etc), I can't recall a single example where they haven't turned out to be Google, press releases, random blog posts based on unsubstantiated guesses, or similar. Some of us have dubbed this behaviour of Alan's " ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stump_1100 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Speaking as someone who works on the transmission side for both named networks, there is enough 'truth' in the original post to reject any outright calls that the info is rubbish. That doesn't mean it's accurate though and the title is extremely misleading. This is exactly the type of post that someone who wants everyone to think they are in the know but actually know very little, would post! Name the magazine AlanH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForMoe Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This information is new and has come from an industry trade magazine which is not available to the general public which is why I have not given links. Which is why they contain verbatim quotes from old, web accessible, sources right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrmuz Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Ignore the turd, and yes turd is an appropriate description for him. If the mods don't like me referring to him as a turd perhaps it's about time they finally do something about him. They won't-they don't give a crap that the floating log you politely call a turd is posting his usual merde.No wonder he gives us all the shits. EDIT:weird swear filter they've got going here! Edited March 18, 2013 by dbrmuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Stump, You critisized me for saying that the WA regional and remote installation program would be completed prior to the rest of the Tasmanian installation program. This is exactly the order of on air dates. The last transmitter went on air, prior to the Tasmanian on air dates. You work in the transmitter end and not the studio end. Stump does not work for Prime and Macquarie Southern Cross. He is a transmitter contractor, who's contracts are with those networks. It does not mean that he works in the stuio complexes of these broadcasters. They are separate competing companies at that end. So prior to my post could you have quoted the capabilities of the playout servers??? All of the posters are irritated because you cannot use google to try and prove I am wrong. So instead you get rude words and insults. This is the action of delinquent school kids. None of you have grown up to use real words. AlanH Edited March 18, 2013 by alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForMoe Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 All of the posters are irritated because you cannot use google to try and prove I am wrong. Your first post is true and correct, because everything mentioned has been in place for years now. It is not new information or a new development, because what Google can do is find the articles you took verbatim quotes from, even if you claim they are trade magazines or the like. The people on here with access to trade information would gladly follow up on things if you were genuine and serious in an attempt to be constructive on this forum. Just because not all users may have access to the sources you claim to use doesn't mean none do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Goformoe, How do you know how old the information is? You have not seen it! Everything is not inplace now. Global TV has just completed building a very large HD outside broadcast van which is hired along with their crew to do the large events. So a source of local HD programs which can be in HD with many cameras and surround sound. It's all very well to have the transmission and distribution system HD capable, however the program sources need to be that way as well. The servers used for program compilation and playout are computers. The hard drives wear out because they are operating continuously and the computers fail, the requirements also increase where more locations get separate program feeds. For example when HD first started Perth used to get Sydney advertising which was really annoying eg go to Jo Bloggs shop in a location which is unheard of from this distance. Later on they purchased another server so that local advertising could be inserted simultaneously with the Sydney signal. Time zone delays are treated separately. It sure is new information for Prime and Macquarie Southern Cross! I cannot quote the rest of the articles because they are contract details of equipment just purchased. So if Prime/GWN, NBN, WIN, SC want to have local advertising on 3 or 4 programs per network, they will have to have a server for each one per network per licence area. So initially they may have only used a server for the main program stream. Since they are buying HD servers either they are adding local advertising to the ONE, 7Mate, GEM programs or they are going HD with their Prime, WIN/NBN/Imparja, Southern CrossTEN/7 feeds? They did not say. Google cannot get access to information that the authors do not wish to provide for free. I pay well over $200 /year for one industry magazine. Whilst I download the articles, they never have and never will be available free on the internet, Google or no google. If you look at those who post here they are always the same old ones knocking me, You, MLXXX, DrP, Malich, drmuz, James and Stump. So which other ones do? I am genuine alright, blowing apart your theories. I can sum up the views of the above mentioned. If this forum was running in 1999..DTV would never happen because we would all have to buy new TVs or Set Top Boxes We should never go to DAB+ radio because everybody has AM/FM receivers and AM sounds fine We should not put the main TV programs on HD because most viewers cannot see it We should not go to MPEG-4 so that we can get proper full HD or even a pair of HD quality channels. So keep things as they are so as not to upset the status quo. But I bet you are not reading this post on a 286 computer, the images you watch on line are MPEG-4 compressed... Just stay dreaming in the past. Instead of wasting your time giving your view of the future, start pushing for improvements. For example push to get community TV exactly the same coverage area as all other broadcasters, through the use of the UA channel 10 on main transmitters and the UA on translators including the one in Geelong. Now that almost all large screen TVs can display full HD, why don't you push to get the most popular programs transmitted this way, so that we can all see it. All prime time TV in the 5 major networks in the USA and most new UK productions are in HD why don't you push to be able to see them as they were shot. The poms now have BBC1 HD, BBC2 HD, ITV HD and 4 HD transmitting HD programming using a single DVB-T2/MPEG-4 transmitter per site. They downscale these programs for transmission on their SD networks. With the analog switchoff imminent, a walk around the suburbs for the council clean up only has a few large TVs,. most are the small ones you get in bedrooms. Those TVs who replaced the ones which were thrown out are all capable of HD reception even if they cannot display that quality. So why not do something useful, push for the improvements you want, not grizzle about things that only a few posters are reading anyway. I don't know about you but I don't think the use of 4 letter words is useful or interesting It just shows how small minded some posters are. Alanh Edited March 18, 2013 by alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Malich Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I notice that, once again, Alan makes many claims without providing any actual examples or evidence to support them. "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForMoe Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Goformoe, How do you know how old the information is? You have not seen it! You have made verbatim quotes from articles freely available on the internet. It sure is new information for Prime and Macquarie Southern Cross. You have made verbatim quotes from articles freely available on the internet. I cannot quote the rest of the articles because they are contract details of equipment just purchased. You have made verbatim quotes from articles freely available on the internet. Google cannot get access to information that the authors do not wish to provide for free. I pay well over $200 /year for one industry magazine. Whilst I download the articles, they never have and never will be available free on the internet, Google or no google. You have made verbatim quotes from articles freely available on the internet. You are not the only person with access to journals and industry magazines - citing a non-web accessible source is fine, saying 'I have read this article, this is what it says' isn't. If you look at those who post here they are always the same old ones knocking me, You, MLXXX, DrP, Malich, drmuz, James and Stump. So which other ones do? I have no intent to knock you. I respond to your posts when I believe they are not backed by evidence, are missing information, are wrong, are misleading or are opinions that I disagree with. Most of your attempts at highlighting posts of mine that you disagree with are the result of you misinterpreting a post. I am genuine alright, blowing apart your theories. Set up a strawman and burn it down... I can sum up the views of the above mentioned. No, you can make false interpretations of other people's arguments, and try to portray disagreement and corrections as an attack. If this forum was running in 1999..DTV would never happen because we would all have to buy new TVs or Set Top Boxes No, DTV has clear improvements over the analogue system on spectral efficiency. If I was able to time travel and have a considered view back in 1999, I would personally be advocating for digital TV. I personally would have argued that we should have chosen to only have SD TV at the time - multichanneling has shown itself to be a strong driver of digital takeup, and HD in MPEG-2 on the channel bandwidths we had has shown itself to be unworkable. We should never go to DAB+ radio because everybody has AM/FM receivers and AM sounds fine No, we should have made our decision on a digital radio technology by considering all of the use cases needed, not just high powered metropolitan sites and leaving the decision on regional areas for later. The choice of DAB+ without proper review of the flaws in regional and remote areas is a very bad position to be in, which will deny many people services into the future. *crop for quote limit* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForMoe Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) *continued* We should not put the main TV programs on HD because most viewers cannot see it No, I believe that the networks should be free to do so. I have just highlighted the two realities - both that it is presently not allowed under current legislation and not planned to change; and that it's a commercial decision that I believe it is unlikely a network would choose to make even if they could. We should not go to MPEG-4 so that we can get proper full HD or even a pair of HD quality channels. No, I believe that the networks should be free to do so. I have just highlighted the reality that it is not widespread enough in installed receivers to be commercially viable. I have in the past suggested the use of the sixth multiplex to provide temporary spectrum for easing a transition. I do not believe it to be possible overnight. I have highlighted Foxtel's continued use of MPEG-2 despite the fact they have end to end control over how they transmit and the receiving devices as an example of just how hard it would be to manage a MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 transition. So keep things as they are so as not to upset the status quo. But I bet you are not reading this post on a 286 computer, the images you watch on line are MPEG-4 compressed... If making my television in the lounge room display MPEG-4 via DVB-T2 was as simple as installing a codec-pack is on my PC, I would have no issue whatsoever with a transition tomorrow. However it isn't possible - so I believe the cost to networks, consumers and the taxpayer has to be balanced out when considering technology changes. The next generation of video encoding is here - to me it would be unfathomable to mandate a change to H.264 when H.265 is now standardised. Just stay dreaming in the past. I tried using Future Sight, it was not very effective. Instead of wasting your time giving your view of the future, start pushing for improvements. By all means lead the way and stop wasting your time on this forum and go push for improvements. For example push to get community TV exactly the same coverage area as all other broadcasters, through the use of the UA channel 10 on main transmitters and the UA on translators including the one in Geelong. I have previously argued that the best way to expand community TV coverage is by having a diverse use of the remainder of the sixth channel spectrum and making transmitter coverage and community TV carriage as requirements for access. Now that almost all large screen TVs can display full HD, why don't you push to get the most popular programs transmitted this way, so that we can all see it. All prime time TV in the 5 major networks in the USA and most new UK productions are in HD why don't you push to be able to see them as they were shot. The poms now have BBC1 HD, BBC2 HD, ITV HD and 4 HD transmitting HD programming using a single DVB-T2/MPEG-4 transmitter per site. They downscale these programs for transmission on their SD networks. The UK have many planning choices that I think are a good model for us, and many that I believe are wrong for us. I have detailed my concerns and the positives about UK Freeview numerous times in the past. To summarise shortly as we seem to be going over all the old ground here - the UK's ability to present the DVB-T2 transition as a positive is linked to the fact that for them HD on free TV was not previously possible. By comparison, Australia had the good fortune to get HD on FTA years before the UK did, at the cost of having a less efficient system to broadcast with - and a smaller justification for change from a viewer's perspective. So why not do something useful, push for the improvements you want, not grizzle about things that only a few posters are reading anyway. Who is grizzling? This forum is not a good platform for pushing for improvements. No one in decision making positions is going to sit around and decide communications policy based on a forum post. I write to my local member or make an appropriate (not book length) contribution to a public enquiry when I feel it necessary. That's certainly not in every case or on every issue. My being grounded in the economic reality and consumer impact of what might be best practice seems to come off to you as if I am attacking the technologies, if you would engage in level headed discussion this would be very clear to you that it is not the case. I don't know about you but I don't think the use of 4 letter words is useful or interesting. I believe that all my posts towards you come with a far greater deal of respect than you afford me. Instead you lump all the users who are active in discussing these topics on this forum together as 'doubters' or another equally catch all term to attack users other than yourself. I'm happy to have a sensible discussion on any point above - instead you choose to bring them up in throwaway off topic lines, when you've previously fallen silent on discussions in the main section of the forum. Edited March 18, 2013 by GoForMoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 'MPEG-4 AVC'. Where is it? No permanent terrestrial services, no teaser channels, nothing; zip; nada; nil; zero. I wonder what alanh says about all his missed predicted arrivals? "I was wrong about it on every single occasion"? The Big Book of alanh Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stump_1100 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Stump, You critisized me for saying that the WA regional and remote installation program would be completed prior to the rest of the Tasmanian installation program. This is exactly the order of on air dates. The last transmitter went on air, prior to the Tasmanian on air dates. I think you'll find that isn't quite how the discussion went but I will allow this misinformation to stand as you are the master at it. You work in the transmitter end and not the studio end. Stump does not work for Prime and Macquarie Southern Cross. He is a transmitter contractor, who's contracts are with those networks. It does not mean that he works in the stuio complexes of these broadcasters. They are separate competing companies at that end. Partially true but once again trying to deflect from the silly statements you have made - of course I don't work in the studios but nor do you. So what!So prior to my post could you have quoted the capabilities of the playout servers??? More than likely but I would just contact engineering and ask the actual experts for the most accurate info. All of the posters are irritated because you cannot use google to try and prove I am wrong. So instead you get rude words and insults. This is the action of delinquent school kids. None of you have grown up to use real words. AlanH Alan, I wasn't rude to you in my response. I simply asked for your source of info but yet again you fail to provide any. It's not about google 'skills', you make a statement and fail to back it up when a reasonable question is asked. Well done Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Who knows better? stump_1100 or alanh? Hmm. I guess an example is needed to determine this. Recall the silly posts alanh made where he repeatedly stated that a certain part of the country was going to have one TX and that only SD services would be provided? Recall the pictures of the TX installation that stump_1100 provided? Recall that alanh, despite photographs of the actual TX equipment clearly depicting the various broadcasters names on the equipment, continued to state his incorrect view of the world? That should clear things up for even the most self-convinced alanh supporter. The Big Book of alanh Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Stump, The last WA commercial regional installation was finished in July last year, you should know your installation dates. Don't be so lazy and look them up. It sure was the way the discussion went, and I also claimed that WA was paying for Tasmainia because of the mining boom. This has been re inforced in the last few days with WA getting the lowest rate of return from the GST we pay, to pay for states like Tasmania. I certainly did work in studios for many years so I know well how these systems work and the divide between transmitter techs and the station techs. You do not know what the playout computer bank is at the moment so how can you critisize my posts. DrP, Show me the post. Alanh Edited March 20, 2013 by alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Beware happless reader. Nothing but despair awaits those that continue to read... Here goes, the thread in which alanh rubbishes anyone else's opinions, even when those people are clearly far more informed than alanh. What did he do in the face of undeniable photographic proof? Why nothing short of start to reposition his argument and attempt to derail the thread, something we've seen time and time again. Is that good enough for you alanh? Does that meet your flex-o-standards of proof? Do I have to dig up the thread where you declared 'one TX to rule them all (in SD)'? Do I have to dig up the thread where even photographs weren't sufficient to quell the stupidity? No, its not really necessary because all you'll do is ignore that you've been exposed yet again. Perhaps you'd like to return the favour and link to the threads where I said [insert many and varied alanh lies] about VAST? Hmm? I guess not, we all saw your hilarious failure last time you tried that. P.S. Strange that alanh hasn't commented at all on the fact that the content of his original post was nothing more than old stale information returned by a google search, not special information that only the blessed select few are privy to. I wonder why that is. Edited March 20, 2013 by DrP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForMoe Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Alanh So I take it you agree with all of my above points and will never bring them up again in the future, or are you falling silent yet again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 DrP, Aren't you retiring to other posting names? AlanH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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