oztheatre Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Guys, finally! an update on the covergence adjustments: According to an Epson engineer, 1 click of the up/down/left/right arrow = 0.125 pixels. Which means it will take 8 steps to cover one pixel – which is a relatively fine level of adjustment. I've asked the question if it's ok for end users to perform these adjustments and making sure it doesn't void warranty or cause any other headaches - before I post the file on how to do the tweaking. Surely though, once you've enabled the convergence in the menu it's there for good and should be quite easy to improve the image if you have misaligned panels. But I'll just make sure it's ok before posting the how to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) The term "convergence" refers to the alignment of the red, green and blue sub pixels so that they are aligned one on top of another creating a white pixel that is no wider or taller than any one of the sub pixels. The ONLY way to "converge" the image on a three chip projector is to physically realign the chips in the optical block which would require its disassembly, adjustment and reassembly. There is no way to do this electronically via the service or user menu. Service or user menu adjustments allow adjustment to the nearest full pixel, any less than that is effectively a blur function whereby colour fringing caused by primary optical block misconvergence or chromatic aberration is canceled by using adjoining pixels. The result is less or no visible colour fringing BUT single lines become two or more pixels wide which is not ideal for image sharpness and is in NO WAY the same as correct "convergence". Unless colour fringing is visible at your viewing distance it is normally better NOT to use less than full pixel adjustments as you are creating more problems than you are solving. The only cure for a misconverged projector is a replacement. Convergence errors of more than half a pixel after full pixel adjustment should be considered a fault and the consumer should not accept it. Edited January 15, 2013 by Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I and other members have found panasonic models compatible with the 8000/9000 models steve . It seems pana is still compatible with your rf models ;maybe send an email to HK or pm Matt to check http://www.avforums....rf-glasses.html yep cwt, am using couple of the pana glasses myself as well with my 9000 apart from the epson ones. good ot hear panas continue to be compatible According to AVS members the Samsung SSG - 4100 3D glasses work fine with the Epsons. I've ordered a couple of pairs for use with my 9100. They can be had for around $20 a pair on Ebay. but wow thats cheap David ! sounds like pretty good options as spares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Guys, finally! an update on the covergence adjustments: According to an Epson engineer, 1 click of the up/down/left/right arrow = 0.125 pixels. Which means it will take 8 steps to cover one pixel – which is a relatively fine level of adjustment. I've asked the question if it's ok for end users to perform these adjustments and making sure it doesn't void warranty or cause any other headaches - before I post the file on how to do the tweaking. Surely though, once you've enabled the convergence in the menu it's there for good and should be quite easy to improve the image if you have misaligned panels. But I'll just make sure it's ok before posting the how to. Epson’s response and file/how to PDF uploaded here http://www.ozts.com.au/Epson_pixel_adj_utility.pdf Yes, the customer can make the adjustment. As this is a software based adjustment and doesn’t physically change anything in the projector, nothing will get damaged. The only thing they need to be careful about is to make sure that they only change the software DIP switch setting mentioned in the guide – and nothing else. Even if they inadvertently change something, they can’t damage the projector. But it’s best to avoid any troubles! If the reseller or customer is hesitant to make the adjustment, then yes, they can take it in to an authorised agent and have them make the adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sero Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Nice work Richard, I am considering a 9100 again at the new gb prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Epson’s response and file/how to PDF uploaded here http://www.ozts.com....adj_utility.pdf Yes, the customer can make the adjustment. As this is a software based adjustment and doesn’t physically change anything in the projector, nothing will get damaged. The only thing they need to be careful about is to make sure that they only change the software DIP switch setting mentioned in the guide – and nothing else. Even if they inadvertently change something, they can’t damage the projector. But it’s best to avoid any troubles! If the reseller or customer is hesitant to make the adjustment, then yes, they can take it in to an authorised agent and have them make the adjustment. well done indeed rich, good on you for pursuing am sure will be a handy thing for most whom want to have a go. I might myself when get some time have a peep see any minor adjustments can do as necessary good on you again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) As this is a software based adjustment and doesn’t physically change anything in the projector, Exactly, thats why its not "convergence" adjustment. You are dealing with a fixed pixel display system, you therefore cant move pixels without physically moving the imaging chip in the optical block which affects all the pixels of that particular chip. All you can do via electronic adjustment is use 2 or more pixels to do the job of one, single pixel lines then become 2 or more pixel wide lines. You correct colour fringing on white lines but degrade resolution and focus. Edited January 16, 2013 by Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockvalue Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Epson’s response and file/how to PDF uploaded here http://www.ozts.com.au/Epson_pixel_adj_utility.pdf Yes, the customer can make the adjustment. As this is a software based adjustment and doesn’t physically change anything in the projector, nothing will get damaged. The only thing they need to be careful about is to make sure that they only change the software DIP switch setting mentioned in the guide – and nothing else. Even if they inadvertently change something, they can’t damage the projector. But it’s best to avoid any troubles! If the reseller or customer is hesitant to make the adjustment, then yes, they can take it in to an authorised agent and have them make the adjustment. Thanks Richard, that's helpful info to have. Should then we always look to adjust a full pixel (8 steps referred to earlier)rather than partial in the interest of maintaining resolution.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Exactly, thats why its not "convergence" adjustment. You are dealing with a fixed pixel display system, you therefore cant move pixels without physically moving the imaging chip in the optical block which affects all the pixels of that particular chip. All you can do via electronic adjustment is use 2 or more pixels to do the job of one, single pixel lines then become 2 or more pixel wide lines. You correct colour fringing on white lines but degrade resolution and focus. If it helps by removing some colour fringing then good. If it degrades the focus then I'm sure people will be able to work that out for themselves by looking at their screen image... If they can't notice the level of degradation in focus and resolution, are they still wrong and does it even matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 As long as people understand what they are adjusting, what they hope to achieve by doing so and the possible side effects its all good. I did not see anyone pointing out the negative side effects of this type of adjustment so thought I should. If primary convergence after full pixel adjustment is poor enough for colour fringing to be visible at a normal viewing distance of say 1.5 screen widths the projector is faulty and people should push for a replacement rather than attempt to cover the problem up with pixel blending. If you get up close to the screen any three chip projector will show some mis convergence, thats normal and not a problem, its only visible colour fringing at the normal viewing distance people should be of concern about. Colour fringing can be due to mis convergence or chromatic aberration (a lens problem) and its often difficult to determine which is which, correcting either with electronic adjustment is a compromise and far from ideal. It would therefore be wise to closely evaluate overall performance with and without correction applied rather than assume the "correction" will improve overall performance. Chromatic aberration is a limitation of the lens design and not a fault the manufacture would accept as grounds for replacement, so if its a visible problem the best solution is a projector with a higher quality lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 WIth the size of the chips and given they're 1920 pixels wide, being out by half a pixel is something like four one thousands of a millimetre. incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yes it is amazing and some manufactures can get reliably under one third pixel error which is effectively perfect. Remember flat panel TV's are always misconverged as the red, green and blue sub pixels are laid out side by side. Half a pixel out is not bad and should be invisible at a viewing distance suitable for 1080, especially blue misconvergance which is much less visible than red-green errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oztheatre Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 From what I understand, the chipsets are manufactured in the infared spectrum. I think it's far more likely the misalignments come from them getting bumped around in transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 That may be so, its hard to say. Some projectors have very solid and heavy chassis, possibly for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockvalue Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 With regard to the Epson "Pixel Adjustment Utility" I noticed the instructions said the initial batch of TW9100s had the feature disabled by default. So I imagine newer shipments will already have the feature activated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderrr Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Just picked up a 9100W yesterday and the convergence menu was enabled straight out of the box. So I guess that means all new stock has it enabled by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockvalue Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Just picked up a 9100W yesterday and the convergence menu was enabled straight out of the box. So I guess that means all new stock has it enabled by default. How is the convergence out of the box without any adjustment? Just wondering if Epson has addressed the QC issues to do with convergence. Mine was out of the first batch in the country and the convergence was bad, and the adjustment menu was deactivated. I have since activated it and adjusted the pixel alignment to a more acceptable level. Edited January 22, 2013 by David1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderrr Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 How is the convergence out of the box without any adjustment? Just wondering if Epson has addressed the QC issues to do with convergence. Mine was out of the first batch in the country and the convergence was bad, and the adjustment menu was deactivated. I have since activated it and adjusted the pixel alignment to a more acceptable level. Seems ok to me. Checked via the adjustment screen and it appears to be out just slightly but not really enough to warrant a major freak out. I adjusted it where I thought it might be improved and found needed to adjust vertical position by 4 (which based on prior thread means it was a half pixel adjustment). Realistically, did I really need to adjust it? Probably not. It was more to see how sell the adjustment process works. For the record, very happy with picture quality for both 2d and 3d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine77 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Got my 9100 set up and picture looks great. Thanks to Yorac and TCC for the group buy! A couple of things I need help with, firstly I have a 110" inch screen, but I can't seem to fit the picture within the borders properly. The sides fit perfectly, but the top and bottom spills over onto the screen border. The projector is mounted onto the ceiling directly in front on the screen if that makes a difference. On my old Mitsubishi there was a setting to reduce the height of the picture, but the Epson doesn't seem to have this option. Any ideas? The only other issue happened when I was watching Shrek Forever 3D. The picture looked fantastic overall, but I noticed when there was a fair but happening on the screen that the 3D effect became a bit blurred. Is this normal? I've never seen a 3D home projector in action before, so have nothing to compare it to. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Mike Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Got my 9100 set up and picture looks great. Thanks to Yorac and TCC for the group buy! A couple of things I need help with, firstly I have a 110" inch screen, but I can't seem to fit the picture within the borders properly. The sides fit perfectly, but the top and bottom spills over onto the screen border. The projector is mounted onto the ceiling directly in front on the screen if that makes a difference. On my old Mitsubishi there was a setting to reduce the height of the picture, but the Epson doesn't seem to have this option. Any ideas? The only other issue happened when I was watching Shrek Forever 3D. The picture looked fantastic overall, but I noticed when there was a fair but happening on the screen that the 3D effect became a bit blurred. Is this normal? I've never seen a 3D home projector in action before, so have nothing to compare it to. Cheers! Assuming you have the PJ perfectly perpendicular to the screen, what brand of screen do you have? Is it possible it is not a perfect 16:9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine77 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 It's an LP Morgan. Never had an issue with the HC7000, the option was there to reduce the height of width of the picture but I didn't need to actually use it. The one thing I miss from the HC7000 is the motorised zoom, it's a lot easier than balancing on a chair adjusting it manually while trying to get it exact with the screen dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael39 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hi everyone. Longtime reader/lurker on these boards and love the wealth of knowledge on here. Now I have a Epson 6100w installed, and love it. Especially seeing this is my 1st projector. My question is i've currently got 2, 3d glasses and 3 more coming. But what i need is another pair that is a kids size. My daughter has a smaller head and requires something alot smaller and that wraps around her head abit. The ones i got with the projector fall off far to easy and she can't get them back on herself as she has a disability. Much help on this would be very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwt Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Maybe go for a goodguy bricks/mortar store if these small ones dont suit fitzy ;easy to return ; the serial number is the virtual same as the ones I posted a few posts above as compatible. http://www.thegoodgu...mall_TY-ER3D4SW Edited January 27, 2013 by cwt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockvalue Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) My daughter has a smaller head and requires something alot smaller and that wraps around her head a bit. I bought a couple of pairs of Samsung SSG-4100GB 3D glasses as spares which work perfectly well with my TW9100 (in fact it is hard to tell any difference between them and the supplied Epsons in terms of 3D performance). They are a smaller fit and the temples do wrap around. Best of all is the price - they can be had off Ebay for around $22 a pair delivered. They may be a suitable fit for your daughter. They seem readily available but PM me if you want the name of the seller I got mine from. Edited January 28, 2013 by David1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus-PrimeHD Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hi guys, just purchased the Epson TW8100.. Real nice piece of electronics! Has anyone got some tips on picture settings?? I have tried using the Hd essential blu ray disc to set up picture but to hard to work out. If anyone can help me with this that would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts