gone_bush Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 $14k for 2 x 8' speaker cables?! In that case I think I know where the "divide" is. I'd use a couple of lengths of fencing wire before I'd spend $14k on two 8' cables. But that's just my opinion. YMMV and you a free to spend your hard earned on whatever you wish. But $14k?!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Jones did some measurements and posted them on sna. Hopefully he or Mario can post everything and read what folks said vs what folks hear. I'm just wondering if my $30 is safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56oval Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Jones did some measurements and posted them on sna. Hopefully he or Mario can post everything and read what folks said vs what folks hear. I'm just wondering if my $30 is safe? HI myrantz Had a read of the SNA thread today at work . It was great to read that measurements were done ,but they were the wrong measurements to proof what ETI claim AMG Toppers do . See you next year and All the best for the New Year CHeers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 HI myrantz Had a read of the SNA thread today at work . It was great to read that measurements were done ,but they were the wrong measurements to proof what ETI claim AMG Toppers do . Weren't you banned, or you deleted your account or something? j/k.. :D So is my $30 safe? Yet to go on to ask them for the room response (or whatever it's called now). See you next year and All the best for the New Year I'd be back to work tomorrow so maybe don't have to wait that long... Just no clue what the fight/argument is all about really since this is just a hobby... As MM said, why turn forums into some frickin' Science journal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Science has been abused and IMO very few people really understand the rigour it needs. Religion was Science in the dark ages, and it lost it's way and now the history is being repeated. It wouldn't take a thousand years this time, just a mere few decades is all it needs for Science to be scorned the way some religion is being right now. Question 1 I hesitate to ask, but myrantz could you please explain what you meant by the sentence I have highlighted in red? It is not at all apparent to me what type of "Science" you are referring to in that sentence. [it is well known that measured performance of speaker systems (e.g. on-axis frequency response, polar frequency response, impulse response, THD and IMD) are merely an indicative guide and that final selection by a buyer would be based on their subjective assessment of which imperfect speaker system gave them suficient value for money within their budget, for the genres of music that appealed to them. I struggle to understand what type of "Science" you feel might be "scorned" in "a mere few decades". To be frank, I struggle to understand many of your philosophical suggestions about audio. They often seem to contain a grain of truth but to be expressed in a derogatory or abusive manner. You seem to assume you possess knowledge others lack, but apart from your hearing and liking kajak's "system" I have trouble identifying what "special knowledge" you have that you so passionately wish to convey to others by making so many posts. I note your admitted lack of interest in classical music, a genre that many audiophiles are particularly interested in reproducing in the home. I note your admitted lack of knowledge of electronics or special training in "listening". ] Question 2 What is the nature of your special audiophile knowledge, and what are your sources for that knowledge? Question 3 Why do you assume that the knowledge you have, as you describe it in answering question 2, is not possessed by others who have participated in this thread, such as (for example), ajm? Edited December 27, 2012 by MLXXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Question 1 I hesitate to ask... Then don't. Read and learn the article I linked earlier. JA is a fellow of AES (I think that's the name) and his credentials and experience speak for himself. While I don't agree with all his opinions on gear. at least the method is grounded. Read also the exchange between JA against the other folks in the comments thread that I linked... If you wish you can register an account there to challenge his views. I'm sure GeorgeHolland needs some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Then don't. Read and learn the article I linked earlier. JA is a fellow of AES (I think that's the name) and his credentials and experience speak for himself. While I don't agree with all his opinions on gear. at least the method is grounded. Read also the exchange between JA against the other folks in the comments thread that I linked... If you wish you can register an account there to challenge his views. I'm sure GeorgeHolland needs some help. I simply wanted a straight answer to a straight question. And to the two further questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Never going to happen MLXXX and I still believe my assessment at the beginning of this thread was accurate. Yes, very possibly:- It's because his primary intent is to troll C.M. And if you reflect on his posts regarding this topic (including many, many, other similar threads) he has never once justified his claims with any real substance, but continues to post his opinions as fact in order to generate the reaction he has got, yet again, in this thread. At the end of the day all he achieves is a waste of time for those innocent or generous enough to indulge him and a boost to his sense of significance in gaining a reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I simply wanted a straight answer to a straight question. And to the two further questions. Are you here trolling, or actually discussing about the divide? Here I am linking an article (one of several I must add) from across the ocean who raised the same points as me (no major divide between him and me). The points he raised already contradicted many things you said. And his credentials are public.. So why do you even need to know what mine is? And yes, I am afraid to post mine online, because it will then make it extremely easy for folks to find me. As you are no doubt aware by quoting posts I would have otherwise ignored, there are trouble makers about... Ur last post is reported as trolling btw.. It's a silly and immature attempt to bait me to react... I think I'd start playing the button now and see if you bullies can actually learn to play nice... I seriously hate censorship but i'm even sicker of these games.. Taking the easy way out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Myrantz, I asked you what you meant by the sentence highlighted in red: Science has been abused and IMO very few people really understand the rigour it needs. Religion was Science in the dark ages, and it lost it's way and now the history is being repeated. It wouldn't take a thousand years this time, just a mere few decades is all it needs for Science to be scorned the way some religion is being right now. A simple answer is all I was after, of what you meant, not links to webpages created by others. I also wouldn't mind answers to the two other questions I asked of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Myrantz, I asked you what you meant by the sentence highlighted in red: Science has been abused and IMO very few people really understand the rigour it needs. Religion was Science in the dark ages, and it lost it's way and now the history is being repeated. It wouldn't take a thousand years this time, just a mere few decades is all it needs for Science to be scorned the way some religion is being right now. A simple answer is all I was after, of what you meant, not links to webpages created by others. I also wouldn't mind answers to the two other questions I asked of you. Oh that question.. You guys are quoting your beliefs and quoting them as if they are science, As such when the debate gets public and folks get to see that the "science" don't agree with their POV they will eventually loose confidence.. Have a look at the climate change debate... The media is whipping a frenzy and people are already loosing confidence.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Oh that question.. You guys are quoting your beliefs and quoting them as if they are science, As such when the debate gets public and folks get to see that the "science" don't agree with their POV they will eventually loose confidence.. Thanks for explaining what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No, and to round off this divide: have a read of this amusing blog: http://www.theaudiophileswife.com/ A perspective from people who aren't in this hobby: there's no divide ... That's a funny blog... lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 No, and to round off this divide: have a read of this amusing blog: http://www.theaudiophileswife.com/ A perspective from people who aren't in this hobby: there's no divide ... That's a funny blog... lol.... Is that your blog. Who is the audiophile that your married too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Is that your blog. Who is the audiophile that your married too? Nah.. That's an American, mad witty creative writing skills.. Esp love the sign off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajm1503559545 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Science doesn't mean what you think it means. I also don't think there's a problem with people losing confidence in audiophilia and audiophiles. It can only be good for the hobby and the hobbyists to have a little more honesty in their world. If you can't explain something to a person with a fairly good base of knowledge the you have to question how much you actually know yourself. You can bet your arse the other person is. There shouldn't be any shame in not knowing something. But too often the response to having these gaps exposed again is defensiveness and aggression. People looking for answers are not then enemy - bullshit and lies are the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I also don't think there's a problem with people losing confidence in audiophilia and audiophiles. It can only be good for the hobby and the hobbyists to have a little more honesty in their world. IMO it will be good for the hobby and the hobbyists in general if folks are actually out enjoying themselves and their hobbies.. Like that audiophile the blogger is writing (or in whatever person that is). If you can't explain something to a person with a fairly good base of knowledge the you have to question how much you actually know yourself. You can bet your arse the other person is. That question is best answered if in person. Clearly something you're not interested at all in doing, so I still don't understand why you continue to insist on harping on this. The problem is on your side, typing furiously ain't the cure. There shouldn't be any shame in not knowing something. You seem to channel that shame quite well into aggression and defensiveness though . But too often the response to having these gaps exposed again is defensiveness and aggression. rofl. People looking for answers are not then enemy - bullshit and lies are the enemy. Again if you are trying to look for answers on the Internet, then bullshit and lies aren't the enemy.. Your laziness is... At best, like me and several others, you'd will be left scratching your head why your head is telling you it works, when your training is clearly telling you it shouldn't.... There really is no shame in that. Clinging on to past teachings like they are the absolute truth and anything that stray as lies.. That's religion.. And the words you say are precisely the types of catalyst why eventually the general population will lose their confidence in Science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizt Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 treblid is a know it all troll. Don't swallow the hook with the bait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajm1503559545 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) You don't know do you Treblid? In your heart if hearts you know that's the truth but you've dug such a hole for yourself here that you can't lose face by acknowledging it. You also don't know the difference between what you don't understand and what can't be understood. It might surprise you but over the years I've had countless conversations with people on a variety of subjects (including audio) and been entertained and informed. I've learned a great many thins that I've been able to pass on to other people - sharing knowledge. It's not a new phenomenon. No one else but you (and Mario) have claimed any kind of special insight and yet it's you who insists that others aren't helping bridge the divide. You miss the fact that you built the divide and you're defending it to the bitter end. And believe me, it's become bitter. Your jester act was kind of amusing for a while but unsuspected it was done with a wink and a smile. I don't see that any more. Now all I see is a guy with more passion that he knows what to do with, who can't channel the enthusiasm into what he desires which is to build a system Mario would approve of. So instead you act as the human shield for the guy you hitched your wagon to. You've nothing to add so you deflect instead. These conversations just suck all the enjoyment out of these forums and the hobby. You know very little - you hum the chorus but you don't know the words. Edited December 29, 2012 by ajm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrantz Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 You don't know do you Treblid? In your heart if hearts you know that's the truth but you've dug such a hole for yourself here that you can't lose face by acknowledging it. I see you have researched on what Singaporeans hate... lol... Who's making assumptions now? It might surprise you but over the years I've had countless conversations with people on a variety of subjects (including audio) and been entertained and informed. I've learned a great many thins that I've been able to pass on to other people - sharing knowledge. It's not a new phenomenon. No one else but you (and Mario) have claimed any kind of special insight and yet it's you who insists that others aren't helping bridge the divide. You miss the fact that you built the divide and you're defending it to the bitter end. And believe me, it's become bitter. And that's the trouble with the Internet. You only see what is written, and only that.. A lot of things happened in the real world that isn't written. Looking at only what is written isn't a complete picture, and is the "religionism" I speak of... People make very bad interpretations and hidden meanings into what is written... Made worse when folks follow these words blindly... Funny that you said only me and Mario and no one else have any kind of special insight. Yet from the italics plus your hifi training earlier on you have your very own special insights.. You somehow forgot to include yourself.. Your jester act was kind of amusing for a while but unsuspected it was done with a wink and a smile. I don't see that any more. Now all I see is a guy with more passion that he knows what to do with, who can't channel the enthusiasm into what he desires which is to build a system Mario would approve of. So instead you act as the human shield for the guy you hitched your wagon to. You've nothing to add so you deflect instead. TBH it will be an honour if I can earn his approval, but it'd still be a while to go and I'm no where near yet. My system is still sadly very much commercial hifi. These conversations just suck all the enjoyment out of these forums and the hobby. All your own doing. Only the weak or the political play the blame game... While I don't particularly enjoy the forums cause of this senseless fighting, I'm staying positive. Helped in part coz I'm enjoying my hobby very much! You know very little - you hum the chorus but you don't know the words. Again your special insight is showing... And aggression and defensiveness too... Back and fro arguing, while trolls delight in glee.. This is the state of the 2 channel, and review, and foxtel.. Basically the entire DTV really... Is this fighting really necessary? I've seriously run out of olive branches ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajm1503559545 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) My insight is practical there's nothing special about it. It's something we can all do. What you're preaching is something intangible, etherial - beyond even description. Something you've had to invent a new language for and level of training to achieve. Something you can't explain or expand on (because its not real) and have made no effort to try (because its not real). You had a wonderful experience at Mario's house, you were wowed and woo'ed. And every since your tried to replicate the experience and because you can't you believe there's something magical you're missing that achievable using cables and caps and training and the right kind of music etc. What you've ignored is the fact that the experience is much more than just nice music on a nice stereo - it's the anticipation, expectation, the company, the feeling of being included and special. You're trying to replicate how you "felt" during the entire experience by concentrating on only the music and the system. You had a religious experience - and you think Mario is the one who provided it for you. You left your analytical mind behind somewhere. Edited December 29, 2012 by ajm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV Forum DTV Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 This thread has run its life and has become personal. Time to close it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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