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Restack Discussion

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James,

You have a short memory. You have already been tested on this website and failed the dB test. Regardless of the spelling error for a small Qld town the fact remains you were getting a poster like on other occasions to spend too much money on antennas. Lastly your prediction on SBS was wrong by months, the ACMA made its decision which was not what you predicted. So on all these counts you were wrong and you cannot admit it.

AlanH

If anyone is interested, and genuinely I don't know why you would be, you can trawl though the posts that AlanH describes above to find what he is talking about and make your own judgement.

AlanH is a master poster and in no way, not even remotely does he have any hands on experience in radio and television broadcasting in this country. He is completely unknown in the broadcasting business, suffered by the ACMA, stumbled upon by a few of us in the trade here on this poorly reviewed website and subsequently highlighted as irrelevant and inaccurate as regularly as possible.

James

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We're fast getting to the analogue switchoffs in Perth and Adelaide, and there's still nothing on the restack of those cities in an accessible format for public consumption. Considering the huge delays in getting the additional translator sites ready as a potential indicator of just how bad judges of time required for these things are - how on earth is this process going to complete within the next 20 months?

The restack section that was on the myswitch site - covering regional SA mostly - is now gone - and I can't find a single mention of the restack anywhere.

Is the situation on the ground in Adelaide any better?

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I would assume they would run the restack ads/info post switch off, to avoid confusion. Will be interesting to see how Adelaide unfolds...

Edited by nbound

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wITH AN ELECTION COMING THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING IN THE FUTURE , MIGHT IT UPSET SOMEONE IN WESTERN SYDNEY!!!!

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The main restack to occur initially is the transmission of SBS/NITV on channel 7 in Adelaide and Perth on the switchoff day. As yet there is only a little advertising or the switchoff, and more for Freeview, even on the ABC. We will probably have to watch SBS from the 2nd April and 16 April in Perth to see them premote a return of receivers.

No word yet on what will happen to CTS30 (44 Adelaide), it will have to become band 3 to comply to the restack rules.

In Adelaide the following restacks are required to be completed by the end of 2014

ADS to channel 37 Adelaide foothills aswell as in Victor Harbour

NWS to channel 36 Adelaide foothills as well as in Victor Harbour

SAS to channel 35 Adelaide foothills as well as in Victor Harbour

ABS to channel 39 Adelaide foothills as well as in Victor Harbour

ABS to channel 32 Elizabeth South

SBS to channel 34 Adelaide foothills as well as in Victor Harbour

SBS to channel 29 Elizabeth South

Unmentioned in the TLAP yet is Anguston, Carrickalinga, Maitland, Swan Reach.All other outer sites are already on restack channels.

Craigmore/Hillbank is already on the correct channels

As for Perth,

Similarly or SBS/NITV and CTW32 (WTW)

TVW to channel 42 Rolystone

TVW to channel 48 Toodyay

STW to channel 43 Rolystone

STW to channel 49 Toodyay

NEW to channe 44 Rolystone

NEW to channel 50 Toodyay

ABW to channel 41 Rolystone

ABW to channel 47 Toodyay

SBS to channel 40 Rolystone

SBS to channel 46 Toodyay

Perth City and Perth Coastal are already on restack channels and are new, they have had no publicity.

All the opinions will be shown to be false and the facts will prove to be so.

Alanh

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Back in January 1980 when Channel 0 Melbourne moved to Channel 10, they dropped leaflets in every home (except mine it seems) before the change, and may have had ads telling people how to retune their TVs. After the change, when they simulcast on both channels for awhile, they had ads that only showed on Channel 0 telling people that they had to switch over and how to retune their TVs.

But with digital TV, it's possible for the signal itself to tell the TV that it should tune to an alternate frequency, so I wonder how that will work.

In the US, certain stations changed their frequency after the analog TV switchoff (e.g. from their digital simulcast channel to their old analog channel). They told their viewers to rescan their TVs after the switch-off to continue receiving the channel.

So my guess is that only channels which are changing frequency will tell their viewers to rescan their TVs shortly before the restack begins in their area. Some/many TVs will retune themselves automatically?

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All the opinions will be shown to be false and the facts will prove to be so.

Don't forget that according to alanh there well not be any temporary simulcasts of SBS during the relocation. Strange that he tries to sweep that little gem under the carpet.

The Big Book of alanh Facts

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No word yet on what will happen to CTS30 (44 Adelaide), it will have to become band 3 to comply to the restack rules.

"Rules"? Oh you mean the "principles" and "objectives"!...

Personally, Im just glad you no longer contend they will be moving to UA channels at each and every site:

What a load of rubbish.

I was alerted to the VHF allocation of Main community TV transmitters by the Head of Community TV at the ACMA, not some random ACMA engineers. Not Google.

How is your good friend the Head of Community TV at the ACMA, going anyway? He told you a real doozy there didnt he? No longer on the Xmas card list?

Somehow, I dont think he ever was... ;)

Edited by nbound

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Guest Malich

Come now, nbound, if Alan wants to send Christmas cards to imaginary friends he can. Thousands of Australian children do it every year in December, and only a bastard would tease them about it!

(Note: I am a bastard ;))

Edited by Malich

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wITH AN ELECTION COMING THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING IN THE FUTURE , MIGHT IT UPSET SOMEONE IN WESTERN SYDNEY!!!!

Perhaps that's why the election is in September, so they don't blame the government for taking their television in December.

The main restack to occur initially is the transmission of SBS/NITV on channel 7 in Adelaide and Perth on the switchoff day.

Have you checked the analogue service in case they are running crawlers or something?

No word yet on what will happen to CTS30 (44 Adelaide), it will have to become band 3 to comply to the restack rules.

There is word on it, you just plug your ears and shout 'la la la la la' because it doesn't fit with your claims. CTS30 are moving to 33 to allow the restack of RTS at Renmark/Loxton.

Unmentioned in the TLAP yet is Anguston, Carrickalinga, Maitland, Swan Reach.All other outer sites are already on restack channels.

Carrickalinga are on restacked channels, Anguston and Swan Reach are waiting on the Renmark/Loxton restack (which in turn requires CTS to move to the digital channel vacated by SBS stopping their VHF/UHF simulcast and for Mildura to restack) and Maitland requires Cowell to restack.

None of those sites in themselves block other restacks, thus there is no need to for them to be done until the last restack window.

All the opinions will be shown to be false and the facts will prove to be so.

Please quote the posts with false opinions and your posts with predicted proven facts. The best you've managed in the past is misrepresenting a post of mine about non-simulcast content on ABC Local Radio - you fall silent all the other times. You'll do so again, or just make claims of what other people have said that are not true.

But with digital TV, it's possible for the signal itself to tell the TV that it should tune to an alternate frequency, so I wonder how that will work.

This came up a while back in discussions - it seems that many boxes either ignore this or badly handle it. One positive behaviour is that a lot of devices will take the first signal for a channel, so moving to a lower channel should be relatively simple.

As I've said before, consumers should rescan at the end of the simulcast period not the start - once the SBS UHF service turns off is the best time to rescan as you're not going to confuse a receiver with multiples of the same broadcast. It's only the MATV systems or other per-channel amplification systems that should be done in advance.

Don't forget that according to alanh there well not be any temporary simulcasts of SBS during the relocation. Strange that he tries to sweep that little gem under the carpet.

His floor must reach the ceiling by now. No wonder he isn't aware of the real world, he hasn't seen it in decades.

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Cheers CWulf. Interesting to see some extended simulcasts on some of the UHF metro sites too :).

As has always been suggested by ACMA this document also confirms that CTV will be UHF until some point post-restack.

Edited by nbound

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As has always been suggested by ACMA this document also confirms that CTV will be UHF until some point post-restack.

And to preempt the inevitable - community TV in Adelaide is not shown because it is a non-permanant licence.

And to play the powers of prediction game:

The commercial broadcasters will likely simulcast at South Yarra but I'd be surprised if MGV can.

The South Yarra entry on that spreadsheet is quite telling...

"All the opinions will be shown to be false and the facts will prove to be so."

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Goformoe,

Stop stating your opinion and find out for real.

The Minister made his pronouncement after all of this documentation you refer to.

Alanh

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Goformoe,

Stop stating your opinion and find out for real.

The Minister made his pronouncement after all of this documentation you refer to.

Alanh

Please point to the opinion part of my post.

I have previously noted here the lack of consumer facing information about the restack, so it's right to mention the fact there is now a dedicated website for it. Feel free to use the website's contact links if you feel they are giving outdated or incorrect information - because their website is not my opinion I don't control its content.

Edited by GoForMoe

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I have a question about the restack.

In the Indicative Channel Chart, Melbourne has a TX flag of E1, which the chart explains means 5-7.499 KW. However, Melbourne's digital VHF TV stations have a transmitter power of 50 KW, and this is the power mentioned in the TLAP. The situation is similar in other locations, e.g. Sydney.

Does this mean that after the end of analog TV or the restack, will transmitter powers generally be reduced, or will they stay the same? By this, I mean for stations that stay on the same channel or only change move within the same frequency band.

Edited by Ron12

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Ron,

The digital transmission power will not change from what it is now.

With the Adelaide analog switchoff on 2nd April, all the receiver installations have been made to work using the existing digital power which is an effective radiating power of 50 kW each for the commercials. If the power was to be dropped to a 10th of what it is now, a large number of viewers would loose reliable reception. This is obviously not acceptable.

Most regional are analog stations have been switched off and there has been no public outcry.

The effective radiating power is the signal power measured 1 km away from the transmitting antenna. This is the power measurement you need to be concerned about. So in the above case, if 50 kW of power is fed into a dipole (the simplest type of antenna) a certain signal strength is received. If now the antenna was replaced with many dipole antennas connected together on the same tower in a way that the signals add. You can get the same signal strength from a much lower power transmitter.

The TXflag is used by the ACMA, Broadcast Australia, TXA etc for internal categorisation over a large number of remotely controlled transmitter installations.

So have no fear, if you have reliable digital TV reception now, it will continue this way, infact in some installations it will become more reliable without the interference from high powered Analog transmissions on adjacent channels and on the same antenna.

The object of the restack is to put all transmitters on consecutive channels on an individual site to clear channels 52 - 69 for auction to the mobile phone/WiFi industry.

So Block A all state capital cities and some other places transmission channels 6 - 8, 10 - 12

Block B ch 28 -33

Block C ch 34 - 39

Block D ch 40 - 46

Block D ch 47 - 51

Alanh

Edited by alanh

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Wow! Reviewing alanh's gospel posts in earlier threads one might be foolish enough to think that 'effective radiating power' has in fact nothing to do with it and that areas covered by high powered transmitters will have no problems receiving 'with a piece of wet string', apparently regardless of distance from that single TX.

A topsy-turvy self-contradictory alanh post. Who would have imagined it. :rolleyes:

The Big Book of alanh Facts

Edited by DrP

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Ignoring Alan's tangent, the simple answer to Ron's question is that the flag is transmitter power categorisation. It isn't ERP. Being a categorisation it doesn't reflect the actual transmitter (TX) power which may be somewhere between 5 and 7.5 kW. Assuming a 5 kW transmitter and 10 dB sytem gain (antenna minus cable, combiner and other losses) then the ERP would be 50 kW.

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CWulf,

Does this mean that after the end of analog TV or the restack, will transmitter powers generally be reduced, or will they stay the same?

This was his question which you have not answered.

Alanh

Edited by alanh

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Hi Alanh,

I'm happy with CWulf's answer. CWulf's example suggests that the 50 KW ERP could result from a transmitter power of 5KW plus antenna gain, minus signal losses. Thus a TX-flag of 5-7.499KW is in line with a 50KW ERP, thus there is unlikely to be a reduction of transmitter power for Melbourne digital TV stations that stay on the same channel. I'd expect this to be generally the case for other locations and also for stations that only change their channel within the same frequency band.

There may be exceptions, of course.

Thanks, CWulf.

Edit:minor edits

Edited by Ron12

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Guest Malich

I find it amusing, though, that Alan Hughes - the master of refusing to answer a straight question on this forum - managed to fight through what must have been considerable cognitive dissonance rooted in hypocracy to loudly berate someone else for not answering a question.

Well done Alan! :phone:

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The effective radiating power is the signal power measured 1 km away from the transmitting antenna. This is the power measurement you need to be concerned about. So in the above case, if 50 kW of power is fed into a dipole (the simplest type of antenna) a certain signal strength is received. If now the antenna was replaced with many dipole antennas connected together on the same tower in a way that the signals add. You can get the same signal strength from a much lower power transmitter.

Alanh

AlanH, would you like to expand on "If now the antenna was replaced with many dipole antennas connected together on the same tower in a way that the signals add."

Genuinely, this will be an opportunity to highlight your understanding.

James

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AlanH, would you like to expand on "If now the antenna was replaced with many dipole antennas connected together on the same tower in a way that the signals add."

Genuinely, this will be an opportunity to highlight your understanding.

James

Don't hold your breath.Alan-alzheimer's,railing against anything and everything (and everyone),doesn't understand the very simple and obvious fact that he has lost all grip on reality,so is hardly in a position to highlight any understanding of anything.

Should he actually reply though,rest assured he'll once again highlight his idiocy intelligence ( :lol: ) and aggressiveness politeness (since he's never rude,apparently-it's all in our heads),for us to bask in yet again.

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