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10 hours ago, MLXXX said:

The term Frequency Response is not readily applied to a codec that uses Spectral Band Replication. The ABC uses the codec HE-AAC v1 for the DAB+ broadcast of Classic FM; that is to say a core encoding using AAC, supplemented by bursts of treble using the SBR  process.  (SBR was developed to improve the subjective sound quality at medium and low bitrates, compared with using plain AAC.)  

 

Although the audio stream sample rate for DAB+  broadcasting is nominally 48kbps, only 24kbps is used for the core audio if the SBR option is engaged. So in theory up to the Nyquist limit (12kHz) could be encoded normally for the core AAC audio. In practice it would need to be somewhat less to allow for practical filters.

 

The FM broadcast would use an upper cut-off of 15kHz for the stereo program material in accordance with usual practice.

 

Subjectively

 

The two broadcasts sound quite different in terms of timbre. The frequency response is by no means the same in the mid-range. Also there appear to be differences in the extent of dynamic range compression. 

 

At first blush, the DAB+ broadcast sounds superior, with its extended low frequency response, bright sounding treble, and its comparatively very low noise floor. 

 

However even very casual comparison with ordinary quality loudspeaker systems can reveal that the extended high frequency response of the DAB+ broadcast is artificial. (I personally find that the sibilants of human speech sound a bit like computer generated speech; and the tone of an opera singer or of a solo violin loses its character for the uppermost frequencies.   I much prefer the FM transmission in relation to the higher frequencies.)

 

As for mid and low frequencies, these are compromised in the DAB+ broadcast by the limited bitrate available to encode them. I'd note that 80kbps is only the nominal figure for the bitrate of the ABC Classic FM DAB+ service. From that must be deducted an overhead used for error correction.There is then typically a further amount set aside for text and graphics.  When I checked these figures in April 2017 using software that dissected the stream into its components, this is what I found:

 

 

So although the DAB+ version will have the capacity for a more extended high frequency response, that extended capacity relies on the Spectral Band Replication component of the encoding.  People will differ in their subjective response to the sound. It certainly is bright, but for some listeners the high frequencies will sound artificial and somewhat bland, and be less satisfying to listen to than the FM version of the broadcast.

 

Opinions expressed about this on DTV Forum some years ago, varied. 

 

Thanks very much, MLXXX, for the detailed response.  I am in the process of getting the DAB+ module in my Sangean tuner replaced - so will shortly be able to listen to both and make up my own mind.  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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There are the Sydney DAB+ stations as at 30 December 2017
 

2CH 1170
2Day FM
2GB

2MFM

2OOO
2RPH
2SER

2SM
2UE LIFE

ABC Clas

ABC Jazz

ABC NEWS

ABC SYD

ABCCntry

ABCExtra

ABCGstd

ABCNewsR

ABCRNat

Arabic24

BUDDHA

Christms

Coles

CW Remix

Dance

Double J

EASYHITS

ELFRadio

Extra

FBi

Fine Mus

FUN

Gorilla
Hope

InspireD

Kids

KIIS1065

Koffee

Koori

MMM MOD

MMMCLASS

MMMGREAT

Nova 969

NTS

OLDSKOOL

PopDesi

SBS 1

SBS 2

SBS 3

SBS 4

SBSChill

SBSPAsia

SkySprt1
SkySprt2
SkyTbred

smoothFM

TACO

The 80s

The 90s

The Edge

Triple M
triplej

Unearth

WSFM1017

Zed

ZOO
 

Edited by El Saif

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G'day El Saif,

 

What does Taco play? Not Mexican music by any chance? And who owns it?

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G'day El Saif,

 

Interesting, I wonder why they'd put something like that up with a name like that?

 

Last time something weird like that happened in Melbourne, it was a station named "Black Forest" which played "A Walk in the Black forest" on repeat. the station became Greek dance station (originally from 1656 AM) Rythmos

 

While I'm at it, I've just read that Canberra DAB radios receiving ABC and SBS stations will need a rescan after 8pm on Monday, otherwise it'll be silent (I gather no reception, maybe they're moving things around)

 

 

Edited by McDigital

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McDigital, thanks for that.

 

Currently, there are 39 DAB+ stations in Canberra with many duplications.

 

Tonight, the number of these stations is expected to collapse as some of these duplicated stations cease.

 

BTW, on the weekend there was a DAB+ station broadcasting in Canberra called Revheads Radio for SummerNats. It was simulcast with a very low power FM station broadcasting at the SummerNats venue.

 

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On 1/4/2018 at 8:13 PM, McDigital said:

 

 

Last time something weird like that happened in Melbourne, it was a station named "Black Forest" which played "A Walk in the Black forest" on repeat. the station became Greek dance station (originally from 1656 AM) Rythmos

 

 

Love the Goodies reference :)

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On 02/01/2018 at 3:27 PM, McDigital said:

What does Taco play?

I think it's just this on repeat atm;

 

 

:blink:  ;)

 

JSmith :ninja:

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ABC Extra has been replaced by ABC KIDS listen.

 

Here in Melbourne, JOY FM 94.9, an LGBT community station serving inner Melbourne, is now on DAB+ (JOY).

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Ron, the same thing has happened in Canberra.

 

ABC EXTRA has become ABC KIDS listen.

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G'day,

 

I've seen a press release saying Hobart has officially launched this week, it seems only the ABC and SBS stations are on though

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On 3 June 2018, there were 60 DAB+ stations in Sydney, viz.

 

image.thumb.png.6fc363d12cfcad47305884638c1c13fb.png

 

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Kinderling Kids Radio has been playing an announcement that from July 1, you may need to rescan your radio in order to keep on receiving Kinderling Kigs Radio.

 

The new version of the station is on the air, currently called KRTEST.  It has the same bitrate and is relaying Kinderling Kids Radio, but at lower volume, which shouldn't happen given that with digital, you should be able to just copy the numbers so that the volume should be identical..

 

This is in Melbourne.  Presumably the same thing is happening in other cities where you can get Kinderling Kids Radio.

 

 

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KRTest has become the new Kinderling Kids radio and the volume is OK now.

 

Meanwhile, there's a new station.  The old Kinderling has become Urban Hits.  It currently features an audio loop telling people to rescan their radio to hear Kinderling Kits Radio, and that Urban Hits will launch tomorrow.

 

 

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