El Saif Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 The SBS has released a confusing press release announcing a new digital radio service called SBS Arabic24, which is due to start on 7 March 2016. SBS Arabic24 seems to be a internet streaming service that will simulcast the Arabic programs on DAB+ radio stations SBS Radio2 and SBS PopAraby, as well as the BBC Arabic language service. There will apparently be a new Arabic language Drive Time Show between 4 pm to 6pm The press release also mentions that SBS Arabic24 will be broadcast on Digial Television as a audio stream in a few months time. The SBS is not the only broadcaster confused by the term "digital radio". The ABC has in the past issued similar confusing press releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Saif Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Unlike the ABC, the SBS does reply to complaints. i received the following reply to my complaint: "Our new service is a digital radio station - available on DAB+ digital radio. It will be replacing the current channel you see on digital radio 'SBS PopAraby'. You can re-scan and find SBS Arabic24 on your digital radio from March 7 (SBS PopAraby name will change over to SBS Arabic24 when the new station starts broadcasting). And indeed will will also simulcat this digital radio station on our website and via our mobile app. The Arabic breakfast show is also available on Am/FM." As SBS PopAraby is not currently broadcast to Canberra on either DAB+ or digital tv, SBS Arabic24 will only be available to Canberra listeners through the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron12 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Are the two commercial Melbourne multiplexes currently down? I am not getting any commercial or community stations on DAB+, but ABC & SBS are fine. ABC Radio National and ABC Local radio are off the air on AM, but this is part of a planned outage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron12 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Are the two commercial Melbourne multiplexes currently down? I am not getting any commercial or community stations on DAB+, but ABC & SBS are fine. ABC Radio National and ABC Local radio are off the air on AM, but this is part of a planned outage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron12 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Are the two commercial Melbourne multiplexes currently down? I am not getting any commercial or community stations on DAB+, but ABC & SBS are fine. ABC Radio National and ABC Local radio are off the air on AM, but this is part of a planned outage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I see that several years' worth of posts are missing from the beginning of this thread. For reference, there was a predecessor thread to this one, the last post of which was this: Tonight, in Brisbane, I performed a rescan with my Roberts ecologic 4 DAB+ radio. Below are the service names, together with the nominal bitrate for each service, as displayed by the radio. (I found the three Coles services at 16kbps interesting. I had not heard such low nominal bitrates before on DAB+.) 9A: 202.928MHz Nova1069 – 64kbps Coles Radio – 40kbps Koffee – 40kbps SmoothFM - 64kbps Coles TAS - 16kbps Coles CBD – 16kbps Coles WA – 16kbps 4TAB ONE – 64kbps 4TAB TWO – 64kbps 97 3 Brisbane – 48kbps 4KQ Classic Hits – 48kbps The Edge – 32kbps The 90s – 32kbps CW Remix – 32kbps The 80s – 32kbps Elf Radio – 32kbps EON Sports Radio - 32kbps Global – 48kbps 96 FiveDg – 48kbps 4AAA 989 – 64kbps 4 RPH Digital – 64kbps Christmas Hope – 48kbps 9B:204.640 MHz hit105 – 56kbps Triple M – 56kbps Classic Rock - 56kbps OMG ! - 48kbps Easy Radio – 48kbps Buddha Radio - 48kbps TheRange – Country - 32kbps Oldskool – 48kbps Kinderling Kids – 48kbps 4BC1116 NewsTalk - 104kbps Magic 882 – 104kbps News Talk Sport – 48kbps 1116 4BC – 104kbps * Magic 882 * - 104kbps ZedDigital – 64kbps Switch Digital – 64kbps MBS light – 64kbps 9C: 206.352MHz 612 ABC Brisbane - 64kbps ABCRadioNational - 64kbps ABC Classic FM - 80kbps ABC Grandstand - 40kbps triple j - 80kbps ABCNewsRadio – 48kbps Double J – 80kbps ABC Jazz – 80kbps ABC Country – 80kbps ABC Extra - 72kbps triplejUnearthed - 72kbps SBS Radio 1 - 40kbps SBS Radio 2 - 40kbps SBS Chill - 56kbps SBS PopAsia - 64kbps SBS Arabic24 - 48kbps SBS PopDesi – 48kbps SBS Radio 3 – 40kbps SBS Radio 4 - 48kbps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDigital Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) G'day All, That Brisbane list is interesting and confusing. How can 4BC and Magic be using 464kbps in total, isn't their limit 256kbps? I'd be guessing 208kbps is really a redirectional shortcut I've seen references to Coles having an additional 3 services heard in Brisbane, it doesn't happen here in Melbourne, and I haven't heard any other city claim it either, but it is strange I did a scan on 2nd of October, this is what I found 202.928MHz - Melbourne 9A 1377 3MP - 56kbps 1116 SEN - 56kbps Aussie - 56kbps KOOOL - 56kbps RSN Carnival - 48kbps RSN Carnival 2 - 24kbps RSN - 64kbps TAB Live - 24kbps Coles Radio - 40kbps Koffee - 40kbps Nova 100 - 112kbps Smoothfm - 64kbps 3MBS - 64kbps 3RRR - 64kbps 3ZZZ - 64kbps Light Digital - 32kbps IRIS Melbourne - 32kbps Rythmos - 32kbps 204.640MHz - Melbourne 9B 3AW - 96kbps Magic - 64kbps NTS - 64kbps Buddha Radio - 48kbps Easy - 48kbps Kinderling Kids - 48kbps Oldskool - 48kbps OMG! - 48kbps Triple M - 56kbps Fox - 56kbps CW Remix - 32kbps EON Sports Radio - 32kbps Gold 104.3 - 48kbps KIIS 101.1 - 48kbps The 80's - 32kbps The 90's - 32kbps The Edge - 32kbps 3CR Digital - 64kbps 3Kool 'n' Deadly - 64kbps VAR - 32kbps PBS Digital - 64kbps SYN - 64kbps 206.352 - Melbourne 9C 774 ABC Melbourne - 64kbps ABC Classic FM - 80kbps ABC Jazz - 80kbps ABC Country - 80kbps ABC Extra - 72kbps ABC Grandstand - 40kbps ABC News Radio - 48kbps ABC Radio National - 64kbps SBS Arabic 24 - 48kbps SBS PopDesi - 48kbps SBS Radio 1 - 40kbps SBS Radio 2 - 40kbps SBS Radio 3 - 40kbps SBS Radio 4 - 48kbps SBS PopAsia - 64kbps SBS Chill - 56kbps triple j - 80kbps triple j unearthed - 72kbps Double J - 80kbps Edited January 9, 2017 by McDigital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 McDigital, Not only that Magic is in the list twice on the same transmitter. The total bit rates for 9A = 896 kbit/s, 9B = 1096 kbit/s and 9C = 1144 kbit/s shows that there is plenty of spare capacity on the commercial/community transmitters. The ACMA did relax the rules about bit rate per program. They are more worried about the equity between broadcasters. MLXXX stated previously "Well the two classical music stations I might be interested in listening to, are not at an adequate bitrate for my hearing. On the other hand, there is a pop music service at a reasonable bitrate here in Brisbane: Magic 882 (formerly 4BH882 BestSongs) at 104kbps nominal [about 85kbps for the audio stream, as now revealed with the Gsinn player]." I suspect that the extra data may be a slide show. Alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 5 hours ago, McDigital said: How can 4BC and Magic be using 464kbps in total, isn't their limit 256kbps? I'd be guessing 208kbps is really a redirectional shortcut Yes, I'd say so. On previous lists for Brisbane, I notated which services appeared to be duplicates. I'm not in Brisbane to check now. However 4BC and Magic are almost certainly duplicated, i.e. where there are similar names and the same bitrate it is probably one and the same service, with two "handles". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron12 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Each AM and FM commercial broadcaster was allocated 128 Kbps per licence. Brisbane has 8 commercial stations so this accounts for 8 of the 14 128Kbps slots available for commercial broadcasting in Brisbane. As for the six remaining slots, the capacity was auctioned off among the existing broadcasters, so it is possible for a broadcaster with two licenses to obtain more than 256 Kbps of DAb+ capacity. Community radio has 512 Kbps allocated to it in Brisbane and the ABC and SBS share a multiplex among themselves. Another possibility is that it is possible for a multiplexes to have more than the 1152 Kbps it would be expected to have from the 9 x 128 Kbps slots that it is supposed to have. The extra capacity can be obtained by skimping on the error correction. As for doubling up, I don't know the situation in Brisbane, as i'm in Melbourne, but there was a time when 3AW had two different channels, 3AW and 3AW+ which was just a repeat of 3AW, but with a different bitrate. So it's possible that some stations are repeated in Brisbane. Edited January 9, 2017 by Ron12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Ron, you now cannot have more than 1152 kbit/s because ETSI EN 300 401 V2.1.1 has now been upgraded to remove transmission modes II, III and IV. Alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Burns Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I haven't bothered correcting Alan for some time, but just feel in the mood to do it now. Alan, what does the Australian technical specs say for our DAB+ terrestrial transmissions? Answer: Use transmission mode I, so the new ETSI specs makes no difference to our DAB+ transmissions as far as that's concerned. Also don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, the new ETSI standards haven't been fully approved, adopted & publicated yet, the work schedule doesn't expect full approval & adoption to happen till the end of June, & Publication of the standards not until mid July 2017, so everything still operates under the current standards. https://portal.etsi.org/webapp/workprogram/Report_Schedule.asp?WKI_ID=50097 As Ron says, yes even within those standards you can get more than 1152 kbit/s by reducing the error correction, (it's done in Sydney, by various stations at various times), though it's not really worth it. I've heard quite a few people comment negatively about the increased drop outs, when a station is using error correction level 4 instead of level 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 RFBurns, It was approved a few days ago. The work schedule is not upto date, you need to look at their news page. What does it have to do with us? The Europeans are the biggest market for DAB+ radios and manufacturers comply with ETSI standards which is the European Technical Standards Institute. So manufacturers will no longer need to make radios to decode transmission modes 2 - 4. Since we have no radio manufacturing, then if the broadcasters use Modes 2 - 4 some radios will not work. https://www.saiglobal.com/PDFTemp/Previews/OSH/AS/AS4000/4900/4943.1-2009.pdf shows extensive referencing to ETSI standards, however this latest modification will not be shown as the Australian standard was written in 2009. Alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Burns Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Alan, did you even read the work schedule at the link I posted? Of course it's up to date, that link is on the ETSI web site. Approved, yes. Formally adopted & put to publication, NO. As for DAB+ radio manufactures not making receivers with transmission modes 2-4 any longer, it's insignificant to us, we don't use any of those modes, it's in our standard to use mode 1. Why the hell would any broadcasters, now start to use modes 2-4, when it's not in our standards & we only use DAB+ terrestrially? Of course our standards use/reference ETSI standards, but dropping transmission modes 2-4 out of the ETSI standards has no affect to us in Australia because they're not used here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 RF Burns, I had already read the work schedule. As well as the amended standard. Regardless, it is irrelevant, because Transmission mode 1 gives the highest bit rate anyway. The reason broadcasters don't want to use modes 2 - 4 is because the maximum data rate is lower so they can transmit less program streams. The other transmission modes give more protection from sound breakup particularly if single frequency networks are to be used. There is only 8 of those available in the populated areas of Australia, because TV is using the other possible DAB+ channels. In current full time broadcasting there is 3 channels used in Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne with a pair in each of Adelaide and Perth. With a minimum spacing of 336 km between 50 kW erp transmitters this severely limits growth of new transmitters in adjacent areas, where non identical programming is used. Alanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 3:09 PM, McDigital said: That Brisbane list is interesting and confusing. How can 4BC and Magic be using 464kbps in total, isn't their limit 256kbps? I'd be guessing 208kbps is really a redirectional shortcut MDigital, I'm back in Brisbane now. Here are the start addresses for the various program streams on channel 9B, as shown tonight by SDR software controlling a USB stick radio: Brisbane DAB+ 9B Name Start address Length Bit rate hit105 86 42 56 Triple M 138 42 56 Classic Rock 138 42 56 TheRange-Country 180 24 32 OMG ! 204 36 48 Buddha Radio 240 36 48 Easy Radio 276 36 48 Oldskool 312 36 48 Kinderling Kids 348 36 48 4BC1116 News Talk 384 78 104 1116 4BC 384 78 104 Magic 882 462 78 104 * Magic 882 * 462 78 104 News Talk Sport 540 36 48 Switch Digital 576 48 64 ZedDigital 624 48 64 MBS light 672 48 64 (I've sorted by start address, and highlighted the duplicate program stream pairs using bold font.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDigital Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 G'day MLXXX, That's all solved then, but I wonder if there's a reason for doing that? Ron12, 3AW's additional service 3AW+ (at a much poorer bitrate) was eventually used for "The Buckle" - so no "shortcuts" in that one, it was just reserved until that came along, which eventually would become NTS when The Buckle closed As for SCA's problem with bitrates, somehow The Range disappeared a LONG time ago in Melbourne because there's not enough space for them. How come other cities are still able to broadcast it? Did they get outbid in Melbourne for extra spectrum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, McDigital said: That's all solved then, but I wonder if there's a reason for doing that? I don't really know - marketing related perhaps. However I do recall another scenario. At one stage in Brisbane there was a duplicate stream (I cannot recall which service it was) with different parameters - a lower protection setting. Perhaps the broadcaster was testing the lower protection stream to see the extent to which the usable coverage area was reduced. (A lower protection setting will free up bitrate, but at the expense of a less robust signal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Malich Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, MLXXX said: However I do recall another scenario. At one stage in Brisbane there was a duplicate stream (I cannot recall which service it was) with different parameters - a lower protection setting. BC, I think, a couple of years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLXXX Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 DAB+ services broadcast in Brisbane as at 17 April 2017 as displayed by the user interface for SDR software (by Andreas Gsinn) operating in conjunction with an RTL2832U USB dongle.Note re bitrate The nominal bitrate for a each DAB+ service was reduced by an overhead associated with error correction of about 10%, resulting in a net bitrate. That net bitrate was in most cases allocated at least in part for PAD (program associated data) of text and a slide show image. What remained was used for the actual audio. The column marked Audio Bitrate shows the approximate mean of what I saw the graphic user interface displaying for the actual audio bitrate for the service. For example if the displayed audio bitrate alternated between 34.1kbps and 35.1kbps, I approximated that as 34.6kbps. Listing of the services for the three ensembles:- 9A 202.928MHz CODEC Nominal Audio Comment DAB+ Brisbane 1 bitrate bitrate 4AAA 989 Country HE-AAC v1 64 46.5 4KQ Classic Hits HE-AAC v2 48 34.6 4RPH Digital HE-AAC v1 64 57.9 nil PAD 4TAB ONE HE-AAC v1 64 33.7 large PAD 4TAB TWO HE-AAC v1 64 40.7 96Five Digital HE-AAC v2 48 38.7 97 3 Brisbane HE-AAC v2 48 34.6 CW Remix HE-AAC v2 32 28.1 small PAD Christmas Hope HE-AAC v2 48 42.8 small PAD Coles CBD MONO AAC-LC 16 13.1 nil PAD Coles Radio HE-AAC v1 40 35.5 small PAD Coles TAS MONO AAC-LC 16 13.1 nil PAD Coles WA MONO AAC-LC 16 13.1 nil PAD Eon Sports Radio HE-AAC v2 32 28.1 small PAD Global HE-AAC v2 48 37.4 Koffee HE-AAC v1 40 27.3 Nova1069 HE-AAC v1 64 50.3 Smooth FM HE-AAC v1 64 50.3 The 80s HE-AAC v2 32 20 The 90s HE-AAC v2 32 20 The Edge HE-AAC v2 32 28.1 small PAD 9B 204.640 MHz CODEC Nominal Audio Comment DAB+ Brisbane 2 bitrate bitrate * Magic 882 * / Magic 882 AAC-LC 104 85.2 Two logical names for the one service 1116 4BC / 4BC1116NewsTalk AAC-LC 104 85.2 Two logical names for the one service Buddha Radio HE-AAC v2 48 38.7 Easy Radio HE-AAC v2 48 38.7 Kinderling Kids HE-AAC v2 48 34.6 MBS light HE-AAC v1 64 49.3 News Talk Sport HE-AAC v2 48 38.7 OMG ! HE-AAC v2 48 38.7 Oldskool HE-AAC v2 48 38.7 Switch Digital HE-AAC v1 64 49.3 TheRange-Country HE-AAC v2 32 24.1 Triple M HE-AAC v1 56 46.1 ZedDigital HE-AAC v1 64 49.3 hit105 HE-AAC v1 56 46.1 9C 206.352MHz CODEC Nominal Audio Comment BR abc&SBS RADIO bitrate bitrate ABC BRISBANE HE-AAC v1 64 49.3 ABC Classic FM HE-AAC v1 80 63.8 ABC Country HE-AAC v1 80 47.6 large PAD ABC Extra HE-AAC v1 72 56.6 ABC Grandstand MONO HE-AAC v1 40 27.3 ABC Jazz HE-AAC v1 80 47.6 large PAD ABCNewsRadio MONO HE-AAC v1 48 34.6 ABCRadioNational HE-AAC v1 64 49.3 Double J HE-AAC v1 80 47.6 large PAD SBS Arabic24 HE-AAC v2 48 37.5 SBS Chill HE-AAC v1 56 45 SBS PopAsia HE-AAC v1 64 49.3 SBS PopDesi HE-AAC v2 48 36.7 SBS Radio 1 HE-AAC v2 40 34.2 small PAD SBS Radio 2 HE-AAC v2 40 34.2 small PAD SBS Radio 3 HE-AAC v2 40 34.2 small PAD SBS Radio 4 HE-AAC v2 48 40.8 triple j HE-AAC v1 80 47.6 large PAD triplejUnearthed HE-AAC v1 72 49.6 large PAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesto Lovin' Man Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 May be send a copy to Wohnort to update his info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron12 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 There have been some changes to DAB+ stations in Melbourne, and presumably, most of these apply to Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide. First off, EON Sports has disappeared completely from DAB+ and the RadioPlayer app, and although the website still exists, the player doesn't work (continually tries to load the stream). Meanwhile, there are three new Triple M stations (actually, 2 new, one has made a comeback: Triple M Modern Digital (MMM Modern) Triple M Classic Rock Digital (MMM Classic Rock) (yes it's back) Triple M Greatest Hits Digital (MMM Greatest) Meanwhile in Melborune, Light FM joins Light Digital on DAB+, however currently it's just a rebroadcast of Light Digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Saif Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 There have been reports in the Fairfax press that Glen Wheatley's EON Sports has gone broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrh Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Ron12 said: There have been some changes to DAB+ stations in Melbourne, and presumably, most of these apply to Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide. First off, EON Sports has disappeared completely from DAB+ Triple M Classic Rock Digital (MMM Classic Rock) (yes it's back) Perth too for the above. EON has been off for a while and MMM Classic has been on for a couple or few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron12 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Thanks hrh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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