Digital Rollout: Bunbury & Kalgoorlie Next To Launch!

[Guest stump_1100]

Sounds good. I imagine there won't be too many people on analog in the weeks after digital fires up, but I'd be interested to see how they communicate the change of frequency, if at all?

I too am curious how they will communicate it but not my area of responsibility thankfully.

[Smacca]

I too am curious how they will communicate it but not my area of responsibility thankfully.

What's the bet there's absolutely nothing on-air about it or the launch of digital. Folks in Gero or Albany would probably fume at seeing a Gem logo pop up on WIN.

[alanh]

C Wulf

Mainland state capitals

channel 6 Seven Network Digital

channel 7 Seven Network Analog

channel 8 Nine Network Digital

channel 9 Nine Network Analog

channel 9A DAB+ digital radio

channel 10 TEN network analog

channnel 11 TEN network analalog

channel 12 ABC network digital

Smacca,

WIN will like their STW 9 Perth do not advertise GEM programming so wny would there be any problem with Gero or Albany. I would expect that the Bunbury newspaper will be used to advertise GEM, GO, One TEN and Eleven. Retaiilers will also advertise in store and non-TV advertising will promote the extra channels.

However GWN Bunbury can advertise 7Mate and 7two on their local analog transmitter.

Alanh

[DrP]

I doubt they will simulcast analog services on adjacent channels - it would cause lots of interference problems!

Edited July 8, 2011 by DrP

[Smacca]

Smacca,

WIN will like their STW 9 Perth do not advertise GEM programming so wny would there be any problem with Gero or Albany. I would expect that the Bunbury newspaper will be used to advertise GEM, GO, One TEN and Eleven. Retaiilers will also advertise in store and non-TV advertising will promote the extra channels.

Don't just assume, Alan. They do advertise GO and Gem on the main WIN channel in every other market that has them.

However GWN Bunbury can advertise 7Mate and 7two on their local analog transmitter.

Good point, I guess they can make use of GSW for this purpose.

[alanh]

Smacca,

Not only does WIN and GWN mangement have to decide about the following;

1. The digital transmitter rollout schedule for 116 transmitters

2. What, when and how publicity will be rolled out not only to viewers but also to advertisers

3. This includes what publicity will be placed

a. on the Aurora WA satellite feed for WIN and GWN

b. on the VAST WA satellite feeds for WIN, GWN and TENWest

c. in Newspapers in local regions and regional versions of the West Australian

d. whether to publicise the rollout timetable (which then have not done in the past) or to just use newspaper and retailer advertising in the respective towns as the transmitters go on air.

Remember that at the Canberra and Ingleburn playout centre the programs and advertising are all scheduled in a playout sequencing computer to provide the advertising and the time delay for WA. WA has a minimum of 2 feeds per network with the VAST ones having the additional network programs.

Two other decisions have to be made by these networks;

1. For the very low powered sites, whether to decommission the analog transmitter and commission the digital transmitter on the same day, with plenty of warning of course. This has happened in Victoria and will happen again in Queensland near the end of the year, or to simulcastin in analog and digital. This saves a lot of transport costs in remote WA.

2. When or if WIN will remove all TEN programming from its schedule for analog WIN.

As for your UTube clip, WIN is quite welcome to use this ad on the VAST stream but not use it on the Aurora stream.

Remember that both satellite feeds are uplinked by Optus in Belrose having been fed by fibre from Ingleburn, so the extra transmission cost from Ingle burn to Belrose is insignificant.

AlanH

[alanh]

SMacca.

To stop the conflict you are suggesting I suppose that they will have to install the remaining pair of transmitters in Mawson, Kalgoorlie, Karratha and Mingenew first or assume that the flack for advertising programs which are not avaliable is wearable. These are the only locations where there are only partial digital facilities. The other sites won't see it.

AlanH

[Smacca]

The networks have made it clear that the rest of WA's network-owned sites will be completed by early 2012, so not sure what you mean by hard switching from analog to digital. Unless you were referring to self-help sites also.

As for your UTube clip, WIN is quite welcome to use this ad on the VAST stream but not use it on the Aurora stream.

Are you saying they won't use it on anything other than VAST, or that they have a choice not to? WIN shows that clip on analog in the east too. Plus, the VAST stream contains 100% the exact same content as the Aurora and Optus D1 streams.

Remember that both satellite feeds are uplinked by Optus in Belrose having been fed by fibre from Ingleburn, so the extra transmission cost from Ingle burn to Belrose is insignificant.

You mean all three satellite links are uplinked by Optus.

[DrP]

Observation of the Aurora 'WIN' service indicates that WIN is not particularly concerned about the advertising that appears. Perhaps, alanh, you should make arrangements to see what is going to air so you can speak from experience rather than speculation.

[Smacca]

SMacca.

To stop the conflict you are suggesting I suppose that they will have to install the remaining pair of transmitters in Mawson, Kalgoorlie, Karratha and Mingenew first or assume that the flack for advertising programs which are not avaliable is wearable. These are the only locations where there are only partial digital facilities. The other sites won't see it.

I suppose. But if WIN decides to make a song about digital on-air, then everyone in the state will see it because of the fact only one single WIN WA exists.

Personally, I have no issue with WIN or GWN7 advertising the new channels on their primary services. As long as they denote that it's only available in Bunbury.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Smacca

[DrP]

Well that proves it. Let's see what the response is this time.

For the record, the response was

(ie, there hasn't been one)

Edited July 10, 2011 by DrP

[Guest stump_1100]

Ok, I hope I get this right... doing this from somewhat dodgy memory!

WIN ATV service from Mt Lennard is currently Ch 39 but needs to be on Ch 40 as the DTV service will go to air on Ch39. So, in the very near future, a "new" ATV transmitter will come up on Ch 40 alongside the existing Ch 39 service for testing and then (all going well...) the Ch 39 transmitter will be euthanized (and probably used for spares). Once all this happens the DTV service can go to air on 28 July. Should be fun.

Quoting myself.... for a correction re Mt Lennard ATV

on or around midnight of the 27th, the Ch39 ATV service will cease and the Ch40 ATV service will leap into action (no "simulcast" - although it would be interesting to see how much they interfere with each other), at this stage the DTV service is due to go to air at the same time.

[alanh]

Stump_1100,

Provided the combiner and the antenna system is correctly adjusted there should be no problem.

SBS 28 (795 kW_erp)analog and SBS 29 (200 kW_erp)digital have no problem and they are transmitted on the same antenna system.

Bunbury viewers are used to interference from 6ABC-FM on 93.3 MHz @ 100 kW_erp vs SSW 3 @ 100 kW_erp (channel 3 85 - 92 MHz)

AlanH

[DrP]

"No problems"

Well, yes, no problems if:

Frequency offset is employed. (This may include nudging the existing analogue service a bit too if it persisted.)

Filtering is employed.

Edited July 11, 2011 by DrP

[Guest stump_1100]

Stump_1100,

Provided the combiner and the antenna system is correctly adjusted there should be no problem.

SBS 28 (795 kW_erp)analog and SBS 29 (200 kW_erp)digital have no problem and they are transmitted on the same antenna system.

Bunbury viewers are used to interference from 6ABC-FM on 93.3 MHz @ 100 kW_erp vs SSW 3 @ 100 kW_erp (channel 3 85 - 92 MHz)

AlanH

AlanH, comparing the SBS DTV & ATV services is irrelevant and not even close to what I originally described (which is no longer the case so it no longer matters).

[alanh]

Stump,

Adjacent high powered channels on a common antenna?

AlanH

[Guest stump_1100]

Stump,

Adjacent high powered channels on a common antenna?

AlanH

Yes, yes we all know that works...but that's not the same as two analog channels side by side transmitting the same info. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Don't answer that, I reckon I know the answer. By the way WIN DTV in WA will be MPEG4 delivered by VAST, the decompression gear will be in the PIE rack on site.

[Smacca]

Uh-oh. Someone mentioned MPEG-4.

[roxtan]

Uh-oh. Someone mentioned MPEG-4.

Oh Dear.....

:)

Who cares just turn the dam transmitters on and be done with it

Edited July 11, 2011 by roxtan

[alanh]

Stump,

Currently on air

SSW (GWN) channel 3 Analog Band 2

ABSW channel 5 Analog Band 2

SBS channel 33 Analog band 4

SBS channel 34 Digital band 4

ABSW channel 36 Digital band 4

WOW (WIN) Analog currently on channel 39 band 4+

New transmitters

SSW (GWN) channel 35 digital

SDW (TENWest) channel 37 digital

WOW (WIN) channel 39 digital (Baja_Dave)

The end result is

SSW (GWN) channel 3 Analog

ABSW channel 5 Analog

SBS channel 33 Analog

SBS channel 34 Digital

SSW (GWN) channel 35 digital (Baja_dave)

ABSW channel 36 Digital

SDW (TENWest) channel 37 digital (Baja_dave)

WOW (WIN) channel 39 digital

WOW (WIN) channel 40 Analog

Hence the adjacent channels.

Note The channel allocations match the ACMA's restack requirements who said that they would try and apply these criteria to WA country as its a "greenfields" commercial digital state.

AlanH

[Theres Always Radio]

Quoting myself.... for a correction re Mt Lennard ATV

on or around midnight of the 27th, the Ch39 ATV service will cease and the Ch40 ATV service will leap into action (no "simulcast" - although it would be interesting to see how much they interfere with each other), at this stage the DTV service is due to go to air at the same time.

Hi Stump_1100

There is some risk of interference with adjacent analogue services, however it is to some extent dependent on the analogue TV receivers.

I know nothing of your background so please excuse the following if I'm stating what you already know.

(1) The two likely interference issues are the lower channel sound carriers being visible on the upper channel and the upper channel vision causing receivers on the lower channel some difficulty in recognising the pilot in sound carrier II hence loss or intermittent loss of stereo.

(2) How bad the effect is also a function of the IF bandpass of the TV receiver, it should be 7MHz of course but there are many multistandard sets out there with 8MHz IF's.

(3) Transmitters up to 2kW can have single power amplifiers for sound and vision, this can create intermodulation products from just the one transmitter that fall within both the lower and upper adjacent channels. These intermodulation products can occur at -4.43MHz and +11Mhz with respect to vision carrier. Once you get past this power level, separate sound and vision amplifier stages are used in the transmitter and these intermodulation products are generally decimated as a result.

Remember though that those who developed the standards for monochrome television and later those who adapted it for colour and in stereo were clever cookies and had considered this. The decision for vestigial sideband reduces the impact on the lower channel sound. Having the second sound carrier 20dB down on vision carrier helps reduce the impact of the lower channel sound on the upper channel vision and finally having the sound frequency modulated provides some protection from the upper adjacent amplitude modulated vision carrier.

Overall, adjacent analogue is not the best idea.

I trust this provides some relief from AlanH.

James

[BamBBBam]

Smacca - will GWN be in 16:9 ?

[Smacca]

Smacca - will GWN be in 16:9 ?

You mean the news?

[BamBBBam]

You mean the news?

Well anything I suppose..

Edited July 11, 2011 by BamBBBam

[RobertL]

Well anything I suppose..

All is in 16:9 with the exception of the local News, they are yet to upgrade Studio Cameras. This will happen in the near future.

RobertL