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Saw A Samsung Plasma D8000 64" Today


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I have had my 64D8000 about 3 weeks maybe now and I am noticing that it is not as good PQ as my old 63C7000.

How many pairs of the blutooth 3D glasses came packaged with your 64D8000 TV, if any and what 'type' are they, please. :)

Anyone else with a new 64D8000 can answer as well of course.

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I have had my 64D8000 about 3 weeks maybe now and I am noticing that it is not as good PQ as my old 63C7000.

Could it be possible that they have changed something that has caused the scaling of SD tv broadcasts to look as ordinary as it does?

The picture quality from Samsung's internal TV tuner is completely rooted for 2010 and now 2011 models as well. It is completely softened, blurred and absolutely unwatchable through the TV tuner. The only way you can get a good picture on the Samsungs is through the external inputs.

edit: it's mostly noticeable with SD which looks horrendous through the tuner. HD looks reasonable through the tuner, but only because it's HD, otherwise it's still being softened and blurred.

Edited by pneu
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As you well know Panasonic did the same thing for years, maybe Samsung figured it was a good idea and followed suit. :huh:

There was no way to fix the issue on the Panasonic's other than by using a set top box. Try disabling noise reduction on the Samsung's and see if that helps.

I have not compared the current Panasonic and Samsung models on SD, only on One HD. The Samsung D8000 was sharper and a lot less noisy than the ST30 and GT30 Panasonic's, too sharp in fact, the sharpness needed to be turned down as did the colour saturation.

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The picture quality from Samsung's internal TV tuner is completely rooted for 2010 and now 2011 models as well. It is completely softened, blurred and absolutely unwatchable through the TV tuner. The only way you can get a good picture on the Samsungs is through the external inputs.

edit: it's mostly noticeable with SD which looks horrendous through the tuner. HD looks reasonable through the tuner, but only because it's HD, otherwise it's still being softened and blurred.

Oh, guess I'm not going to worry about reading reviews from these guys anymore, http://www.trustedreviews.com/samsung-ps64...-picture_Page-2

". In fact, as a standard def TV the PS64D8000 is an even better option than the mighty Panasonic P55VT30."

:(

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Oh, guess I'm not going to worry about reading reviews from these guys anymore, http://www.trustedreviews.com/samsung-ps64...-picture_Page-2

". In fact, as a standard def TV the PS64D8000 is an even better option than the mighty Panasonic P55VT30."

:(

The reviewer must have been viewing from an external set top box, because like I say picture quality is brilliant on the samsungs through external inputs , just not the internal tuner. If you think I'm making this up go and have a look at a display model with SD channel from the internal tuner, it's all soft and looks like sh*t. Hook up a STB and feed in SD natively and it upscales beautifully, very clear and sharp without being noisy or ringey.

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Try disabling noise reduction on the Samsung's and see if that helps.

That's the first thing I tried and it has no effect unfortunatly. I thought of trying Game mode too but it's greyed out for the internal tuner.

This is just a crackpot theory of mine but I think it might actually be the physical hardware of the tuner itself that is outputting lowpass filtered signal. Because why would they deliberately do this to the tuner, but not the external inputs? I mean any lay person can see that SD looks all wooly through the tuner, and it's not just because Freeview is compressed, it's a very aggressive spatial low pass filtering of the entire raster even when the scene is completely still.

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That's the first thing I tried and it has no effect unfortunatly. I thought of trying Game mode too but it's greyed out for the internal tuner.

This is just a crackpot theory of mine but I think it might actually be the physical hardware of the tuner itself that is outputting lowpass filtered signal. Because why would they deliberately do this to the tuner, but not the external inputs? I mean any lay person can see that SD looks all wooly through the tuner, and it's not just because Freeview is compressed, it's a very aggressive spatial low pass filtering of the entire raster even when the scene is completely still.

I can only make two suggestions: Check your settings. Start in "Movie" mode & tweak from there. Other than that you could have a faulty tuner. The tuner on the D8000 (to my knowledge) is the same as that used on the C7000. SD content on the C7000 was very good. Very clean and very crisp (and much better than the Panny VT20).

It might be worthwhile visiting a retailer and taking a look at DTV on a display model & see how it compares. What I've seen instore is every bit as good as last years C7000.

Andys.

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Mpeg decoding is not exactly difficult these days so no way its a tuner hardware limitation.

Low pass filtering and noise reduction are easy to apply on a per input basis, that's what would be responsible, assuming anything is actually happening.

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SD content on the C7000 was very good. Very clean and very crisp (and much better than the Panny VT20).

No it wasn't. I had the 58C7000 and SD through tuner was horrible, but over HDMI/component it's excellent. I also have a Samsung C650 LCD currently which has exactly the same problem. It's the same across this years range.

If you think SD looks good from the internal tuner your standards must be very low or you haven't seen what it should look like.

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If you think SD looks good from the internal tuner your standards must be very low.

That must be it. :lol:

What can I say? When I had the 58" C7000 SD DTV looked very good, and it produced a better picture on SD DTV than my VT20. That's why I suggested looking at your settings.

Andys.

Edited by andys
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That's why I suggested looking at your settings.

My settings were probably better than yours because I had calibrated it with a meter.

The fact remains that SD through the tuners is not meant to look like that, if you had the chance to compare it to 576i over HDMI you would see the difference is like night and day.

The fact that you cannot tell the difference is probably the reason why Samsung cannot tell the difference. Which is depressing to say the least because it means nobody cares about preserving picture quality.

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I currently don't have a Samsung, so I can only comment on what I remember about the C7000 I had & what I've seen instore on the D8000.

Does SD DTV look the same on the D8000 display models as it does on yours? If so, then you'll just have to avoid using the inbuilt tuner if it bothers you that much. Have you considered a return/exchange/another brand? You don't sound too happy about it.

If I get a chance this weekend I'll take another look at the D8000 & the inbuilt tuner.

Andys.

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Does SD DTV look the same on the D8000 display models as it does on yours? If so, then you'll just have to avoid using the inbuilt tuner if it bothers you that much. Have you considered a return/exchange/another brand? You don't sound too happy about it.

I don't even own a D8000, but it's obvious to me looking at display models that it has the same issue.

Panasonic's been doing it for years too and I never heard a peep on any forum or review sites complaining about it, which I find really strange.

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If I get a chance this weekend I'll take another look at the D8000 & the inbuilt tuner.

I find i have to go to about four different stores to test a TV.It seems to be the norm to have TV's linked to a single feed (through composite) and antennas not even plugged in at most places.HN in Hobart has no remotes for any tv available,they are all locked away in a box downstairs.Naturally you only go there when you have already decided what you want elsewhere because they will mostly do you the best price :D

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Panasonic's been doing it for years too and I never heard a peep on any forum or review sites complaining about it, which I find really strange.

Up until last year the softness of SD content through the inbuilt tuner was a pretty common complaint about the Panny, though (as you say) not often mentioned on review sites. Last year's range improved somewhat, but SD DTV still looked better on the Samsung (imo). I guess we have to remember we're talking about low bitrate Australian free-to-air TV here. As you have pointed out though, runnning DTV from another source though an HDMI input often yields a better result. I've seen exactly that on my VT20 with a DTV feed from my Panny BW500 (go figure)! Either we're just getting cheap inbuilt tuners, "OR" there's little processing going on from the tuner feed. If you've seen MPEG4 TV you could understand why such processing really wouldn't be necessary. Maybe they just don't realise what poor quality DTV some counties (such as us) have.

Andys.

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Panasonic and Samsung do realize how poor our free to air TV is, that's why SD from the internal tuner is deliberately filtered rather than left as is. Samsung have obviously come to the conclusion that the Panasonic approach had more market appeal and so have gone the same way. The only problem is there should be a user option to turn the filtering off.

I don't think anyone discovered a way to do it on the Panasonic's but there may be a service menu adjustment on the Samsung's.

Foxtel/Austar have long used prefiltering to make video compression more efficient, it works well as there are dramatically less compression artifacts then on free to air using Mpeg2 compression at data rates probably lower than free to air. The image is softer but that's a good trade off as most TV's look bad with unfiltered content, especially when the content has significant motion.

A good quality set top box or PVR gets around the filtering. I stress "good" because many if not most devices do a poor job of deinterlacing and upscaling to 1080 resulting in a soft picture. If you get a sharper picture with the set top box output set to 576i rather than 1080 for SD source the box is no good.

This is a surprisingly common problem and affects other devices like upscaling DVD players as well. The TV's internal deinerlacing and scaling generally works better than a lot of external devices, especially on Smasung TV's which have long had a reputation for good deinterlacing and scaling.

Edited by Owen
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Panasonic and Samsung do realize how poor our free to air TV is, that's why SD from the internal tuner is deliberately filtered rather than left as is. Samsung have obviously come to the conclusion that the Panasonic approach had more market appeal and so have gone the same way. The only problem is there should be a user option to turn the filtering off.

So this is why SD content on my Panasonic 50 looks so much more inferior than the same content via my $50 DSE HD STB, as well as Topfield 7160? Thanks for the insight - I thought I must have been seeing things!

Edited by VT Convert
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Panasonic and Samsung do realize how poor our free to air TV is, that's why SD from the internal tuner is deliberately filtered rather than left as is.

But it makes it look worse! Any lay person can tell that. Smudging and blurring something that is already blurred due to MPEG2 over compression just adds to the problem. It does not help one bit. How can Sammy and Panny not realise this? Do they test their TV's at all?

The only problem is there should be a user option to turn the filtering off.

Absolutely agree.

Foxtel/Austar have long used prefiltering to make video compression more efficient, it works well as there are dramatically less compression artifacts then on free to air using Mpeg2 compression at data rates probably lower than free to air. The image is softer but that's a good trade off as most TV's look bad with unfiltered content, especially when the content has significant motion.

I agree but the point I would raise is that temporal filtering can be good wheras spatial filtering is usually bad. Also the type of filtering (as in, the actual algorithm) matters A LOT.

Look at what they found on the 40D5520 LCD at hdtvtest: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue4...01107121282.htm (scroll down to Standard Definition). It seems they are now filtering 576i over external inputs too :(

This could be the nail in the coffin for me if it's true across their entire range.

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It's great that we have the resource of professional review sites to point out the flaws in a product,the mind just boggles why they add stuff in a mandatory fashion without giving the buyer the option to switch it off though.Surely if we pay for the product we should get to decide what processing is applied to the picture?

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Has anyone bought the 64D8000 from Myer and actually received it?

They keep pushing back the delivery date.

Myer were expecting delivery from Samsung on 15th July (today), and now say there was NO delivery received and its likely the 22nd.

They are stringing me along (Myer) without confirming an actual date.

I’m on the verge of cancelling the order and buying elsewhere.

Who's carrying stock currently?

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Has anyone bought the 64D8000 from Myer and actually received it?

They keep pushing back the delivery date.

Myer were expecting delivery from Samsung on 15th July (today), and now say there was NO delivery received and its likely the 22nd.

They are stringing me along (Myer) without confirming an actual date.

I’m on the verge of cancelling the order and buying elsewhere.

Who's carrying stock currently?

I bet you'll be waiting until end of August unfortunately. Refer to my previous posts! :(

Edited by Trigg
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Has anyone bought the 64D8000 from Myer and actually received it?

They keep pushing back the delivery date.

Myer were expecting delivery from Samsung on 15th July (today), and now say there was NO delivery received and its likely the 22nd.

They are stringing me along (Myer) without confirming an actual date.

I'm on the verge of cancelling the order and buying elsewhere.

Who's carrying stock currently?

How much is/was Myer selling this set for?

I saw this TV for the first time at a JB store a week ago, and I have to say I really hated the look of the 4-legged stand :( This is going to sound like a stupid question. Is there an option to choose the 6900 stand instead???

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How much is/was Myer selling this set for?

I saw this TV for the first time at a JB store a week ago, and I have to say I really hated the look of the 4-legged stand :( This is going to sound like a stupid question. Is there an option to choose the 6900 stand instead???

NO. But to be honest, they look best on the wall.

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